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philosophie_en_rose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:50 PM
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Thoughts on Authors that Chastise Unhappy Readers
Popular authors build a relationship with readers through the novels that they create. In an artistic sense, it's reasonable for authors to write what they choose. And, of course, it's impossible to please everyone. But, I'm fascinated by authors that seem to puff up with self-importance by chastising critics or abandoning the editorial process - especially when the quality, in my opinion, decays with each new book. (see quotes from two authors below - though there are plenty of authors with kind and thoughtful responses to critics, such as www.neilgaiman.com).

Does the internet (or other popular media) change the way that you view an author's works? Is it fair for readers to harshly criticize the novels that the author has invested her or his time and energy to create? Is it fair for authors to lash out at "negative fans," when readers have paid $20+ to be disappointed?

While looking up Anne Rice's comments to add, I found a blog entry by another author. It transcends Anne Rice's self-congratulatory outrage to reach new heights. . .


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/037541200X/ref=cm_rev_sort/102-2633762-5084927?customer-reviews.sort_by=-HelpfulVotes

From the Author to the Some of the Negative Voices Here, September 6, 2004
Reviewer: Anne Obrien Rice "-- Anne Rice, author of Christ the Lord --" (Little Paradise, California) - See all my reviews

Seldom do I really answer those who criticize my work. In fact, the entire development of my career has been fueled by my ability to ignore denigrating and trivializing criticism as I realize my dreams and my goals. However there is something compelling about Amazon's willingness to publish just about anything, and the sheer outrageous stupidity of many things you've said here that actually touches my proletarian and Democratic soul. Also I use and enjoy Amazon and I do read the reviews of other people's books in many fields. In sum, I believe in what happens here. And so, I speak. First off, let me say that this is addressed only to some of you, who have posted outrageously negative comments here, and not to all. You are interrogating this text from the wrong perspective. Indeed, you aren't even reading it. You are projecting your own limitations on it. And you are giving a whole new meaning to the words "wide readership." And you have strained my Dickensean principles to the max. I'm justifiably proud of being read by intellectual giants and waitresses in trailer parks,in fact, I love it, but who in the world are you? Now to the book. Allow me to point out: nowhere in this text are you told that this is the last of the chronicles, nowhere are you promised curtain calls or a finale, nowhere are you told there will be a wrap-up of all the earlier material. The text tells you exactly what to expect. And it warns you specifically that if you did not enjoy Memnoch the Devil, you may not enjoy this book. This book is by and about a hero whom many of you have already rejected. And he tells you that you are likely to reject him again. And this book is most certainly written -- every word of it -- by me. If and when I can't write a book on my own, you'll know about it. And no, I have no intention of allowing any editor ever to distort, cut, or otherwise mutilate sentences that I have edited and re-edited, and organized and polished myself. I fought a great battle to achieve a status where I did not have to put up with editors making demands on me, and I will never relinquish that status. For me, novel writing is a virtuoso performance. It is not a collaborative art. Back to the novel itself: the character who tells the tale is my Lestat. I was with him more closely than I have ever been in this novel; his voice was as powerful for me as I've ever heard it. I experienced break through after break through as I walked with him, moved with him, saw through his eyes. What I ask of Lestat, Lestat unfailingly gives. For me, three hunting scenes, two which take place in hotels -- the lone woman waiting for the hit man, the slaughter at the pimp's party -- and the late night foray into the slums --stand with any similar scenes in all of the chronicles. They can be read aloud without a single hitch. Every word is in perfect place. The short chapter in which Lestat describes his love for Rowan Mayfair was for me a totally realized poem. There are other such scenes in this book. You don't get all this? Fine. But I experienced an intimacy with the character in those scenes that shattered all prior restraints, and when one is writing one does have to continuously and courageously fight a destructive tendency to inhibition and restraint. Getting really close to the subject matter is the achievement of only great art. Now, if it doesn't appeal to you, fine. You don't enjoy it? Read somebody else. But your stupid arrogant assumptions about me and what I am doing are slander. And you have used this site as if it were a public urinal to publish falsehood and lies. I'll never challenge your democratic freedom to do so, and yes, I'm answering you, but for what it's worth, be assured of the utter contempt I feel for you, especially those of you who post anonymously (and perhaps repeatedly?) and how glad I am that this book is the last one in a series that has invited your hateful and ugly responses. Now, to return to the narrative in question: Lestat's wanting to be a saint is a vision larded through and through with his characteristic vanity. It connects perfectly with his earlier ambitions to be an actor in Paris, a rock star in the modern age. If you can't see that, you aren't reading my work. In his conversation with the Pope he makes observations on the times which are in continuity with his observations on the late twentieth century in The Vampire Lestat, and in continuity with Marius' observations in that book and later in Queen of the Damned. The state of the world has always been an important theme in the chronicles. Lestat's comments matter. Every word he speaks is part of the achievement of this book. That Lestat renounced this saintly ambition within a matter of pages is plain enough for you to see. That he reverts to his old self is obvious, and that he intends to complete the tale of Blackwood Farm is also quite clear. There are many other themes and patterns in this work that I might mention -- the interplay between St.Juan Diago and Lestat, the invisible creature who doesn't "exist" in the eyes of the world is a case in point. There is also the theme of the snare of Blackwood Farm, the place where a human existence becomes so beguiling that Lestat relinquishes his power as if to a spell. The entire relationship between Lestat and Uncle Julien is carefully worked out. But I leave it to readers to discover how this complex and intricate novel establishes itself within a unique, if not unrivalled series of book. There are things to be said. And there is pleasure to be had. And readers will say wonderful things about Blood Canticle and they already are. There are readers out there and plenty of them who cherish the individuality of each of the chronicles which you so flippantly condemn. They can and do talk circles around you. And I am warmed by their response. Their letters, the papers they write in school, our face to face exchanges on the road -- these things sustain me when I read the utter trash that you post. But I feel I have said enough. If this reaches one reader who is curious about my work and shocked by the ugly reviews here, I've served my goals. And Yo, you dude, the slang police! Lestat talks like I do. He always has and he always will. You really wouldn't much like being around either one of us. And you don't have to be. If any of you want to say anything about all this by all means Email me at Anneobrienrice@mac.com. And if you want your money back for the book, send it to 1239 First Street, New Orleans, La, 70130. I'm not a coward about my real name or where I live. And yes, the Chronicles are no more! Thank God!


http://blog.laurellkhamilton.org/

Dear Negative Reader,

{snip intro paragraphs}

Let me say that all of you that hate the books, and have decided not to read them anymore, I am happy for you. I know that when a book series that I read takes a turn I don't like I stop reading it. I put it down and I walk away, and that's that. If you're unhappy with my books, and have decided you never want to read another thing that I write; great. I mean that. Life is too short to read books you don't like, so if you're not having a good time, stop doing it. I'm sure there are other books out there that will make you happier than mine. There are books with less sex in them, God knows. There are books that don't make you think that hard. Books that don't push you past that comfortable envelope of the mundane. If you want to be comforted, don't read my books. They aren't comfortable books. They are books that push my character and me to the edge and beyond of our comfort zones. If that's not want you want, then stop reading. Put my books away with other things that frighten and confuse or just piss you off. I have my list of stuff like that. So good for you, you've decided not to read me anymore. Good luck, God speed.

But let me say, one thing puzzles me. When I decide not to read an author, or series again. I don't go on their message board and keep talking about the books I don't want to read. I don't say that I stopped reading at a certain book, but strangely, am still able to talk in detail about books that have come out since then, thus making people reading my post wonder how I know so many details if I haven't read the books. Either A: You have read the books, and don't want to admit it. Or, B: You haven't read the books and you are taking your opinion from the posts of others who have read the books, and hated them. Those are the only choices I've been able to come up with. If there is a more logical explanation, I can't find it. Either you are closet readers, or you're letting others read them and report back to you like negative scouting. So you're left with an opinion based on someone else's opinion, or you are reading the books in secret. If the latter, you seem to hate yourself and me for the fact that you read the books. I recommend you don't read the books, it will save you pain, and give you more time to read things you like. It seems a logical solution.

Let this post also put to rest the idea that I don't know that a small minority, albeit a loud minority, hates my series. I've known that for awhile. Like the first time someone stood in line for hours at a signing, smiled at me, and had me sign the book, then said to my face, "I hated this book. I hate what you've done with the series." I blinked at them, and said something like, "Sorry to hear that." When I ask, "Why do you read the books then?" Answer, "I keep hoping they'll get good again." Jon and I have heard variations of this across the country from a maybe five people. But strangely, having someone say to your face, that they hate your books and at least twice, that they hate you stand out in our minds. Since I wouldn't stand in line for hours to tell someone I loved their work, the fact that people stand in line for hours to tell me they hate my work, just puzzles the hell out of me. I don't get it guys. I'm not going to get it. I finally realized that I'm not going to understand this noisy, unpleasant minority of my fans. Because you are fans. Only fans would spend this much time and energy on anything. It's a strange kind of fan, a negative fan, but you spend so much time and energy hating and complaining that some part of you must love the hate and complaining. It's the only explanation I've been able to come up with. But I don't really understand.

And if you don't think you are the minority, well, sorry, guys but you are. I have the sales figures to prove it. Each book’s sales are more than the last. The vast majority of people standing in line love the books, love the series, and tell us so. Some people even ask for more police procedural. I want more, too. If the person asks nicely, not rudely, or in that tone that seems to imply if I don't do what they want the series is doomed to failure, I listen. The arduer is a pain in my, and Anita's butt, too. But I believe in my world. I've done this major metaphysical event. I won't just 'fix it' because it's hard to write around. God, knows, sometimes it is. But the arduer is moving along. I've got my fix in mind, but it's logical, not something that's merely convenient, or because some people hate it. But the arduer is not going away. If that's what you guys are wanting, then it ain't happening. Leave now, because more arduer awaits. The arduer is evolving, as are Anita's powers, but I don't see the arduer going poof.

{snip paragraphs praising "positive" readers and describing how wrong it is to suggest killing characters that are real to her}
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hmm, has it occurred to Ms. Rice or Ms. Hamilton that the issue is not the reader
(who apparently liked their early work enough care and have faith they will improve) but that their latest work is utter shite, even by the rather low standards for popular fantasy? Actually, Hamilton's recent output wouldn't be bad if it were marketed as what it is, erotica for people who like fairies, vampires and kink.
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philosophie_en_rose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Apparently not.
Hamilton's recent output reads like bad fanfiction to me, with Anita as the Mary Sue character. :shrug:

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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. And it just keeps getting worse.
That's the scary part. She can't just level off at some point, each story has more sex but less plot and characterization. Meanwhile, all the interesting people either disappeared or have tiny walk on roles and one-dimensional dialog. I actually hauled the lot off to goodwill the other day and don't intend to buy more, because I've given up hope that she'll make them at all worth my time again.
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philosophie_en_rose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Which is why Hamilton's rant is confusing.
Edited on Wed Jan-03-07 12:33 AM by philosophie_en_rose
Frankly, I don't understand how anyone could like her recent books. I read the first seven or so, and then picked up a more recent one much later on. :wow: Now I won't read anything she writes (though my cousin says her fairy books are much better than Anita). If I wanted to financially support a narcissist, I'd vote republican.

For me, it's not the sex, it's that Anita is a slave that has sex against her will with a harem of interchangeable men. I don't think that's "edgy" or empowering. It's just sad. And lazy writing. I think she has some phrases on "cut-and-paste". :eyes:
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. No, the fairy books aren't any better, they just went obvious erotica first.
Actually, the Anita books went to shit about the same time she started writing them, and they're very much in the same vein, one beautiful supernatural woman, a whole harem of supernatural men who don't seem to have anything better to do than wait around for their turn to screw her, and somewhere in the background a mystery that gets solved in between supernatural thee-ways and fairy S&M.
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philosophie_en_rose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yikes. I'll pass. Hamilton's sex scenes are like watching previews for Showgirls.
Edited on Wed Jan-03-07 02:23 PM by philosophie_en_rose
Hamilton can't write sex scenes at all. Her scenes remind me of the trailers for Showgirls, where that girl from Saved By the Bell tried to be erotic with jazz hands and jerky dancing. That movie didn't look erotic at all.

Plus, I'm not a fan of Mary Sue stories.
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Kiouni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. I Don't blame her
After reading reviews on Amazon I get pretty pissed too. 99% of the reviews are from people that didn't read the book. Look up Obama's book reviews, everyone of them just fluff. Dawkins latest book had some dumb reviews too. Crichton's reviewers were just stupid. Nobody reads the books and writes a review they read the dust cover and say something stupid.

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dave_p Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
3. Depends...
Whether they're addressing criticisms on an open medium (eg message-board) without singling out individuals who may have voiced a criticism out of good will.

I love interactivity, I hate persecution. I've had national journalists email me to challenge a criticism, and of course they shot up in my esteem for having done so. I've also been flamed on-air by idiot DJs for worrying (on a public board) that their language might jeopardise their license, which immediately demolished any respect I might have had for them (I didn't give a shit about the language personally, and I'd have been perfectly content to be attacked on the board where I'd posted my very mild comments).

So it's about how those with a ready audience respond. If it's done fairly, without malice and addressing the issues, then it's interaction and due responsiveness. If people abuse their position to attack those less well-placed to make their views heard, they're despicable.
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Babel_17 Donating Member (948 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. Google up how fans of Gerrold's Chtorr series .....
feel about waiting over a decade for the next book in the series. Lol, or don't, because it can get nasty. :)

"A Season For Slaughter
The War Against The Chtorr #4. Bantam Spectra, 1993."

Sample links: http://www.allreaders.com/Board.asp?BoardID=2286

Progress report for book #5 http://www.gerrold.com/whatsnew/page.htm

"Saturday, June 03, 2006


Progress Report

Just a quick note. Memorial Day weekend slowed down the writing, and next week, I have a workshop that will use up even more writing time, but between the two events, I've managed to turn out another 10,000 words--several very critical scenes. I finally figured out how to write Jim's death. It's pretty scary stuff. I nearly threw up while I was writing it.

This leaves only two major sequences to finish. I'm guessing 20,000 words more and the narrative sections of the book will be pretty much done. Then I'll have to correlate three separate interlocking storylines, finish the interstitials and add the Solomon Short quotes. My target is to be done by the end of July.

I also need to make sure that all the people who bought character names are fairly included and appropriately dismembered. That could take another week or two. I hope to turn in the final draft before Labor Day. Then I have a handful of short stories and one other book to finish before I take up book six.

More news later."


Lol, I've exchanged a few e-mails with Mr.Gerrold and conversed a bit with him on his old forum. He's very kind and polite and very generous with his time.

Hehehe, but he will not abide having a fan telling him to "hurry up and finish the book".

P.S. Fwiw, I've heard from several sources that Harlan Ellison is the last guy a rude fan wants to mess with. ;)
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philosophie_en_rose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I've heard the same about Harlan Ellison.
But I'm not defending rudeness at all. :)

Refusing to hurry up and finish seems to be a bit different from writing "you don't like my book, because you suck," though.
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Babel_17 Donating Member (948 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Agreed!
Thanks for this thread, it's interesting.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
11. Looks to me as if some writers either need to develop a thicker skin than they now have
or just stay the hell off Amazon.

Some readers are always going to dislike your work. That's life. And some will dislike it for the wrong reasons, to your mind. That's frustrating, but you're sure not going to change them by pontificating at them about how unfair they're being to you. And writing big long chunks of prose about it without even breaking up what you say into readable paragraphs just makes the writer look more self-indulgent and more as if maybe these readers have a point about the writer having gone to seed as a result of too little listening to possible constructive criticisms from others.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. I think Stephen King once said...
you get angry at the critics you know are right.
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philosophie_en_rose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. or that you're afraid of.
Hamilton especially seems afraid that "negative readers" will convince "positive" readers that her books are crap. Rice seems to just be arrogant.
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