Why are eBooks so freaking expensive?

[Greyskye]

The price point seems to be close to the same as paper books. I just saw a book recommended in another thread, and the poster said they were reading it on their Blackberry. So I went looking for it - $18 for an eBook! (http://ebooks.ebookmall.com/ebook/260477-ebook.htm). Why the hell are they charging so much for an eBook? If you take out the cost of materials, printing, and distribution (oil costs are causing this in particular to skyrocket), and factor in the whole 'remainders' debacle, you'd think that an eBook would be considerably cheaper, and still maintain the revenue stream for the author and publisher.

Even most other eBooks I've seen are about the price of a paperback. I find it really hard to put down the same amount of money, and only have it live on a hard drive and in my cell phone, and not take a place in my (quite extensive!) library. When it lives there, I know that it will be read again - by a family member, a friend, or at the very least traded in at a used book store years from now. If it's in a digital format, I'm probably the only one who will ever read it.

Thanks to a now expired offer from Tor (http://tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=577) I was able to download over a dozen eBooks for free. I've been loving this, and have only read a couple 'real' books over the past few months. All the rest have been on my mobile device.

I know that there are some free e-libraries out there (http://www.baen.com/library/defaultTitles.htm is one), but I'd really like to know why they are setting the price-points so damn high. It's as if they want this particular sales model to fail. :(

[BlooInBloo]

1. They're not, on bittorrent....

Just sayin.

[Greyskye]

4. I don't want to steal from the authors

I respect the profession too much. I just want a reasonable cost. :shrug:

[BlooInBloo]

6. Sure, and I want a Ferrari. Meanwhile, back in the real world, with the real choices.

[Greyskye]

8. In the real world...

...I try to live my life well. I may be an atheist (or more specifically a Secular Humanist), but I live my life by the Karma rule.

And that means doing the right thing, even if it's not the most convenient one.

[BlooInBloo]

9. (shrug) Then pay the $18.

[Tesha]

33. Maybe they cost so much because so many assholes steal them when they can? (NT)

[lynnertic]

13. try borrowing the book from your friend when they're done. works for paper.

[Greyskye]

15. If I actually knew anybody who used eBooks I would.

No one that I know in RL does though. :shrug:

[Not Me]

2. Check your local public library website

Most have agreements with online download companies. Just need to have a card.

[Greyskye]

7. Good suggestion, no luck

Nothing listed at my local library website. :(

[lynnertic]

3. beause their authors have to eat, too?

[Greyskye]

5. I addressed that in the OP n/t

[lynnertic]

10. so I guess that's not good enough for you. n/t

[Greyskye]

11. Huh?

What I stated in the OP was this:

If you take out the cost of materials, printing, and distribution (oil costs are causing this in particular to skyrocket), and factor in the whole 'remainders' debacle, you'd think that an eBook would be considerably cheaper, and still maintain the revenue stream for the author and publisher.

I'm not following you at all. :shrug:

[lynnertic]

12. Um, I guess the simple reason of 'authors have to eat too' doesn't, in your eyes, justiy the cost

you are asked to pay for the book you're griping over.

[Greyskye]

14. You aren't reading a single thing I'm typing, are you?

Upthread I told someone that I refused to use Bittorrent to steal eBooks, specifically because I respected the profession too much to do that.

In my specific reply to you I addressed this very subject. If you factor in the costs of paper books compared to eBooks, it appears that the publishing houses are charging the same for eBooks as they do for paper books - even though they don't have the cost of materials, distribution, or remainders when selling eBooks.

If there is something that I'm missing, I'd love to hear it. But on the surface, it appears that they are charging basically the same price, for something that has none of the traditional costs.

I'm sure you realize that authors get relatively little per paper book. I don't want them to get any less per purchase, simply adjust the costs to reflect reality - not simply charge the same just because they can make a couple thousand percent additional profit that only goes to the publisher, NOT the author.

[lynnertic]

16. Mear Greyskye, I am reading what you type.

And this is the first time you've written the following:

I'm sure you realize that authors get relatively little per paper book. I don't want them to get any less per purchase, simply adjust the costs to reflect reality - not simply charge the same just because they can make a couple thousand percent additional profit that only goes to the publisher, NOT the author.

You don't know for a fact whether that actually goes to the publisher or not. You're basing your assumptions on your knowledge of the traditional publishing industry, knowledge which may or may not current.

From the looks of this thread nothing and no answer is going to satisfy you. That's perfectly OK, this is exactly the place for endless bawling over complicated problems that can't be fixed in two exchanges between strangers.

Just don't keep kicking at me, please.

[Greyskye]

19. The evidence shows otherwise.

Sigh.

I've said basically the same thing, in three different posts up above.

You say that I'm "basing (my) assumptions on (my) knowledge of the traditional publishing industry, knowledge which may or may not current." Absolutely true, which is why I also stated above "If there is something that I'm missing, I'd love to hear it. But on the surface, it appears that they are charging basically the same price, for something that has none of the traditional costs."

You say it looks like "nothing and no answer" will satisfy me. So far people have suggested that I steal the books (which I decline to do), utilize the library (great suggestion - my local library system evidently does not deal with eBooks), and then have been repeatedly told that I evidently want authors to starve (patently absurd if you look at my other responses). Yeah, telling me to be a thief, to utilize a non-existent system, and having folks tell me that I want authors to starve aren't exactly things that 'satisfy me'. :eyes:

Don't keep "kicking at" you? :wtf: I thought that we were having a dialog in the thread that I started! Feel free to stop responding, but telling me to stop posting in my thread? Whatever.

[lynnertic]

17. Back again, Now I'm wondering if you even want this book. The author's a bigoted asshole it seems.

So here I am being a good citizen etc. and I find the author of the book you want and his website, conveniently enough it's www.dansimmons.com

I hunt for an email address because I wanted to ask (respectfully) how the price of his book is broken down and refer him to this thread.

No email address, but there is a forum. (All Ego sites should have a forum of their own so that the owner can go bathe in the adoration of his/her fans. If there are any, I mean. But I digress.)

So I bother to register for the forum, because you know, you have my curiosity piqued about this ebook residuals thing now.

At the top of the topic list, (he tags his own posts with "by Dan Simmons" btw, another sign of a healthy ego)

And this is the first impression of the author's personality that I get to see:

http://forum.dansimmons.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=33378#Post33378

House Apologizes, Garage Not Heard From Yet
Dan Simmons Dan Simmons Administrator Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/02/05
Posts: 1845
Loc: Colorado
Dan Simmons comments --

Gee, silly me. I thought the death of more than 600,000 Americans in the Civil War had made up for the stain of slavery at least a little bit. But I guess an apology is the main thing.

Any of you in any other groups out there think a House apology (and maybe some serious reparations) are in order for YOUR team? I certainly do.

DS
*************************************************************

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The House of Representatives on Tuesday passed a resolution apologizing to African-Americans for slavery and the era of Jim Crow.

The House on Tuesday evening passed a resolution apologizing for slavery and Jim Crow laws.

The nonbinding resolution, which passed on a voice vote, was introduced by Rep. Steve Cohen, a white lawmaker who represents a majority black district in Memphis, Tennessee.
While many states have apologized for slavery, it is the first time a branch of the federal government has done so, an aide to Cohen said. (entire article was posted but I clipped it here)

The man's fan club jeers in unison for two pages.
EXCUSE ME???????

So I've decided that I'm not going to ask the author about electronic publishing, because I don't want my name in their archives. It's downright Freepy over there.

[Greyskye]

20. I appreciate the research attempt

The book came to my attention in this thread: What are some books you absolutely positively couldn't put down?, where a number of posters said good things about it. It was simply a whim that made me go check it out, and finding the price was the same as a hardback provided the impetus for my OP.

I have personally stopped buying certain authors books for different reasons. I stopped buying one very well known S.F. writer's books after I met him, and found him to be a disagreeable asshole. There are others that while I disagree vehemently with their political/religious views (Orson Scott Card comes to mind), they can still write a great book. I may wait and pick it up used as my form of protest against them, but I'll still read their books.

I've read some Simmons before - Hyperion, The Fall of Hyperion, and his Ilium/Olympos cycle. Fortunately I suppose, his Freepishness wasn't apparent in his writings, and the books are quite good.

[MonkeyFunk]

18. Most books on the Amazon kindle at $9.99 or less

[shimmergal]

21. Actually, they're not.

At least for the few e-publishers & authors I'm familiar with -- the download price is usually $5.00 or less, and a paper copy of the same book costs at least $18 (of course, POF is still relatively expensive, whether you buy your own machine or contract this work out.)

But, the same e-book publishers' royalty structure usually involves an royalty payment of about 40% to the author. The typical print publisher pays rooyalties of less than 15 cents per copy on the average paperback. Nor are the e-book owners or employees very well compensated. When I applied for a job as an editor at an e-publisher, the pay was something like 1/4 cent per copy sold on each book that you edited. Some of the seemingly best e-pubs have gone belly-up in the past 2 years.

[Greyskye]

22. Finally some information

Thanks! I wasn't aware that eBook royalties are better for the authors, that's good news.

What is POF? I'm pretty sure that it's not "Premature ovarian failure".

Can you link to the publishers that you are familiar with that are $5.00 or less? The ones that I've seen so far are significantly more expensive then that.

Thanks again!

[Book Lover]

29. Likely a typo for "POD"

Print on demand.

[Greyskye]

31. Thanks. Do you have any idea...

...of which publishers are selling eBooks for $5.00? I never got a response when I asked for any details from the poster who claimed that. :shrug:

Also, do you agree with the assertion that authors get higher royalties from ebooks?

[LibraLiz1973]

23. I could never imagine reading a book on a device

I love the feel and smell of books. I could never read them on something or listen to them either.
Does it give you a headache??

[Greyskye]

24. I was skeptical at first as well

I completely agree with you about the feel and smell of books. The only reason I tried it was that Tor released a couple dozen free eBooks at the beginning of the year. I tried it, and found that the convenience of always having a book available to read on my cell phone beat the lack of having the book actually in my hands. I read a lot, and having an entire library of books available to me when I'm traveling is a real luxury.

It doesn't give me headaches. I am using the AT&T 'Tilt', which has a 2" x 2.5" touch sensitive screen, and downloading in the "Mobi" format. I increased the font size to just about the same size of the text in your average paperback book. It makes for a lot of page turning, as this puts the page count in the 2000-3000 range for most books. If I was using my wife's iTouch, with its larger screen, the experience would be even better though. I've seen the Kindle, and the "ePaper" it uses for a display is amazing - no eye fatigue at all. I don't care for the size and ergonomics of it that much though. I understand a rev2.0 model is coming out, hopefully they've addressed some of that.

Tor has just released 2 more free eBooks, for registered members only (registration is free). One of these is one of my all time favorite books - Emma Bull's "War for the Oaks". This is a great chance to try it out and see if you like the experience. Here is the web site: http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=5515

(edit for a malformed bold)

[LibraLiz1973]

25. I have looked at the Kindle and have wondered if I should get it

There are books I could just read once- but others, I like to keep and have on hand for re-reading. I guess the thing to do then would be to go buy the book if I wanted to have a hard copy.

Maybe I will try it. There are times when I desperately need a book but don't have the time to get out to the store.

[buzzycrumbhunger]

38. DON'T get Kindle

Kindle is a proprietary reader and you're not able to transfer the book you paid for to your computer or another device. Furthermore, they don't consider that you actually own it and can rescind it at will. WTF?

I'm afraid there are still too many formats and no one agrees on the file format. Until they do, the prices are going to stay high. Also, for some reason, Apple doesn't think there's a future in eBooks, so they don't want to bother with a rating system (like they do for music)--so anything "adult" (apparently, one F-bomb is enough to qualify) is automatically refused, which limits what's available.

I have a friend who just published her first book here (yay!) and the whole process has been a real experience. First of all, hers is a romance novel, but a weird blend of stuff (politics, sex, crime, sex, art, and did I say sex? OMG, it's practically its own character), plus she's Mormon, of all things. Publishers loved it but said they couldn't market it in any particular niche. (Sidebar: I found the Mormon slant really interesting, though it's not terribly overt in the story--it seems that the ones we've seen in the media are not representative of the average LDS. . .) After a couple years, she said fuck it and made her own publishing company and did it herself. Now, it's a flurry of research on how to market herself and how to publish it in various formats. If you rummage around her blog (linked above), you can find a lot of info she's come up with and other authors kind of following suit. I get the feeling that indie publishing is the wave of the future because traditional publishing is dying.

Can't remember the reader she prefers, but I think it's important to get one with eInk so it feels like reading the printed page. Backlit or not seems to be another big decision (I suspect I will need that because I like to curl up in dark places to read, but it does suck battery life). I've heard some say it would make more sense to get a cheap laptop specifically for reading. Even that Give One/Get One laptop at $399 would work and is comparable in cost to many eReaders (plus the nice charity aspect).

Her book, BTW (yes, I'm pimping here) is a third as expensive in digital format (it comes as 5 file types so you're assured of getting one you can use) and the first 200 pages or so are available as a free DL so you can see if you're even interested in coughing up the $8 to read the rest. (It's a monster at about 750 pages.) I honestly haven't had time to follow her blog, but I suspect there are links to other writers' sites with affordable DLs. Lots of indie writers also offer novellas for free, hoping that will get you hooked on their writing.

I've always been big on books and love the tactile aspect, but I have to say I'm getting really close to taking the plunge myself. I've been pondering pulling up stakes and am dreading the prospect of having to cart around four rooms' worth of books. I've already got all my old LPs and CDs on the iPod, so it makes sense to condense about 400 books to something that would also fit in my purse.

[Book Lover]

26. "If you take out the cost of materials, printing, and distribution..."

These are not, in fact, the greatest costs in creating a print book. Editorial and production (and author advance/royalties) are, and those tasks/costs do not change depending on the distribution model. Sorry.

[Greyskye]

27. What about remainders?

Even if I grant you your assertion that materials, printing (don't forget the labor cost there) and distribution does not have a great impact in creating print books (and I have to admit that I remain skeptical at your claim), what about the remainders debacle?

Where unsold books have the front covers ripped off, and sent back to the publishers for credit, while the rest of the book is dumped in the trash.

[Book Lover]

28. I have been in the publishing business nearly 20 years

in both production and editorial. Per unit plate costs for a print book are a smaller portion of a book's budget than editorial and production costs. All a printer has to do is output files onto paper, bind them, and ship them to a warehouse. Editors and production staff have to: design a cover (which includes both a designer and illustrator or photo researcher) and interior, develop the book with the author, copy edit the text, lay out the pages, proof the pages and make corrections, do any applicable XML coding (depending on the size of publisher and the content of the book), create printer-ready PDFs, and proof printer's proofs.

Remainders are costs that a publishing house has to eat - that's money tossed in the trash. Frankly, ebooks are a boon to publishers in that case.

[Greyskye]

30. That goes directly to my original point.

"Remainders are costs that a publishing house has to eat - that's money tossed in the trash. Frankly, ebooks are a boon to publishers in that case."

Why is the price point for eBooks the same as for paper, in that case?

Thanks for the insight into the editorial/creative costs. It's appreciated. :thumbsup:

[babythunder]

32. You read books on your cell phone?

sorry I couldn't imagine reading an entire book on my cell phone or any cell phone for that matter. Books for me are like pieces of art because there are some books I give to friends or would even pass down if I ever have children. Can you imagine Charles Dickens or F. Scott Fitzgerald coming back from the dead to see people reading their works on a cell phone or an Ipod lol.

[comrade snarky]

35. You really think

They would be more concerned with the lack of dead tree than the fact that people are still reading their words and thinking about their themes 100 years after they wrote?

I began reading on an electronic format years ago and wont go back. Some books and authors I will continue to buy on paper for the tactile reasons you describe. I am a bibliophile, however I do not see the need to produce paper for casual fiction or manuals. Some books I read electronic and then but on paper to have the physical copy.

It's really not the END OF THE WORLD tm.

[justiceischeap]

34. I have a solution for you Half.com

http://search.half.ebay.com/the-terror-dan-simmons_W0QQmZbooks
You can get the HC for $1.59 + $3.95 shipping.

:)

As far as eBooks, I read them too but I don't understand either. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I get that the author needs to eat and all but when you lower the production involved in a product, one would expect it would lower the cost.

[matt819]

36. Opt for recorded books?

edited after I had a chance to see that we here at DU can pretty much fight over anything.

Geez, guys, this really isn't a subject to fight over. The questions are legitimate, and it would be nice if someone had answers. In the absence of answers, shut up. E-mail ebook publishers and ask them. You can choose to believe them or not, but my guess is that they'll give you an answer. On a gut level, I have the same questions. Digitizing a book cannot be all that complex or costly, and once it's done the distribution is essentially cost-free - server space for the downloads. I would have to believe the authors get a cut of revenues regardless of format. But, then again, if it was so easy, I'd be in the publishing business making a mint.

All of that said, I'm a purist when it comes to reading. Give me a book any day. I don't think I'd take to the Kindle or other ebook choices. Maybe some day. But in the digital world, I listen to books, and here are my choices (I use all three):

Option 1. Audible's download subscription is $229 for 24 credits, and most books are one credit, so that comes to roughly $10 per book. Since it's online, my kids can also download books (and they're pretty good judges of books) when they're at school.

Option 2. Check www.overdrive.com, which provides "subscription" audiobooks for download through library memberships. My library (and suspect this applies to all), restricts checkouts to three, and you have them for a week. And you sometimes have to wait. But it's free via your library, and you can transfer the book to your ipod or zune.

Option 3. www.Recordedbooks.com's subscription service. This one is, I think $24.99 per month, and you can pretty much get out three books at a time. I listen only in the car, so it takes me a while to go thorugh a book, but if you listen more assiduously you can listen to quite a few books monthly for that service (basically, this was netflix for books before there was netflix). I've been listening to books from Recorded Books for more than 20 years, and while some readers drive me nuts, most are excellent, and they've been a pleasure.

[Greyskye]

37. Found a less expensive e-book retailer!

http://www.fictionwise.com/

I haven't bought anything from them yet, but they appear to have a large selection in various formats. Most of the prices are a lot closer to what I feel are more reasonable and realistic then what I've seen elsewhere.

The book which was the impetus for the OP is about 1/2 the price at the fictionwise site than it is at the other ebook retailer that I had found.