Can anyone recommend a work as intimate, yet grandiose, as PARADISE LOST?

[DerekG]

Having just finished Milton's masterpiece for the second time, I must say, I haven't been this moved since "The Brothers Karamozov." Milton worked on such a large canvas, yet never lost sight of the three central characters, who exuded, and inspired, more pathos than any in memory.

I'm now searching for something comparable, whether the form be poetry or prose, or the milieu sacred or humanist. What I want are doomed/redemptive romances. Wounded, but unfathomably evil, antagonists. A relatively large scope. Melodramatic flourishes (using Eve's locks to wipe away her tears, the dropping of the flowers, etc).

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[LostInAnomie]

1. Paradise Regained

Milton's sequel to Paradise Lost.

[DerekG]

2. I've read it, and wasn't impressed

The "Return of the Jedi" to PL's "Empire."

[LostInAnomie]

5. I loved them both...

... probably because I went to a Catholic school and had these stories pounded into my head. I loved how Milton humanized the Devil and made his feelings and methods not only accessible but rational to the reader.

In Paradise Lost I was yelling at the angels because they were cowards who never questioned why, and in Regained I was yelling at Jesus because he seemed like a pampered son who had it all and therefore wasn't really subject to the temptations of man.

I guess it is just the perspective and background of the reader, but I really enjoyed both.

[CrispyQ]

3. sci fi

"Ender's Game" followed by "Speaker for the Dead" both by Orson Scott Card. The unfathomably evil antagonists -- that's us.

Jane, I love Jane.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_%28Ender%27s_Game%29



I have not read the books beyond Speaker.

[ruthg]

10. Whew. Now I feel a bit better..

because what I recommended is much better than Ender's Game.

[skooooo]

4. Dante's Inferno?

[Otm Shank]

6. _Absalom, Absalom!_

It's dense, but few novels are as ambitious as Faulkner's masterpiece.

Yes, sometimes the medium gets in the way of the message, such as in the parenthetical asides that go on for tens of pages, but Absalom, Absalom! definitely meets all your criteria. I won't give anything away, though! :)

[ExclamationPoint]

18. Faulkner's always a good idea

but, if you would consider reading a play, might i suggest the french antigone?

[Nevernose]

7. Nope - pretty much the end of epic poetry (Canterbury Tales, Faerie Queen

I've often wondered and laughed at Milton's contemporary poets after reading "Paradise Lost:"

"Well, fuck, what are we supposed to do now? No way we're topping that shit! Fuck it, just ... fuck it. What kind of asshole decides to write an English language poem that's as good as Homer and actually does it? Fuck Milton, and fuck the horse he rode in on."

Not many people have read Spenser's "Faerie Queen," but to be fair, while parts are brilliant to the modern reader, much of it is a comment on the politics of the day. I'd recommend reading it either with a Cliff's Notes nearby or with a graduate class.

"The Canterbury Tales" might just be my favorite piece of literature and makes just as many comments on the Christian faith as "Paradise Lost." The hardback Riverside version and the paperback Oxford edition are both excellent, though the Riverside is much more literal (as well as providing more background information). I think what fascinates me so much about this work is that it can be enjoyed on so many levels: the surface level is spellbinding, alternating between hilarious and gut-wrenchingly suspenseful, while the level of satire and parody is often so subtle that it requires one or more good companion works to comprehend fully. The original, just in case you didn't know, is in Middle English, and it loses something when fully translated IMO.

Of course, you've read Milton, so you've probably read Chaucer as well, but I thought I'd rant a little just the same, as Chaucer is one of the few English poets who is Milton's match.

[Nevernose]

8. And did I mention "Canterbury Tales?" n/t

[ruthg]

9. Whoa. I am going out on such a limb here and I am donning flame proof

clothing as I am about to recomend a comic book . Seriously. Really.

And I am not a kid, in fact I am a college educated woman in my 50s.

Neil Gaiman's Sandman.


Ok, flame away.

But to quote someone else ( I forget who actually) " if this isn't literature than nothing is."

I read it on the reccomendation of my daughter's boyfriend and was hooked after about the third collection ( there are ten "graphic novel installments" ) - they start really catching fire after the fifth and the last one still gives me goosebumps.


I can't believe I am comparing a comic book to Milton.

Ruth, shoot me now ( but not until after you have read Sandman).

[pitohui]

11. an instance of the fingerpost -- ian pears

would be another so-called crime novel of similar redemptive and emotional depth

amazing

his other books about the art world are mere fluff tho

[DerekG]

16. Why the apologetic tone?

No shame, Ruth. The graphic novel, when done well, is (A)rt.

I read Russian literature, and I read Marvel comics.

I love Ingmar Bergman and Philip Kaufman films, and I love Spielberg and Lucas productions, too.

On edit: The literary/film snobs can piss off.

[PASAVANT]

12. PROUST'S A LA RECHERCHE

SIMPLY THE GREATEST WESTERN NOVEL. ANY OF THE ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS ARE FINE, ALTHOUGH THE NEW PENGUIN TRANSLATION IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE BEST. FIRST 50 PAGES ARE A TOUGH SLOG FOR SOME, REST OF THE BOOK IS ABSOLUTELY ASTOUNDING. WATCH OUT THOUGH OR YOU MAY BECOME HOOKED. IVE READ IT THREE TIMES NOW. AS SOMEONE SAID ABOUT KEATS, AFTER READING PROUST EVERYTHING ELSE SOUNDS LIKE HUMMING AND WHISTLING.

[tishaLA]

13. A very good suggestion indeed.

I'd also suggest Musil's The Man WIthout Qualities or many of James' novels, especially his later stuff like The Golden Bowl and Wings of the Dove.

[tomg]

14. David Jones's In Parenthesis

Not very well known in this country, Jones was an Anglo-Welsh poet and painter who served ( and was wounded at Mametz) in the First World War. In Parenthesis is a strange and haunting blend of prose and poetry that follows the Royal Welsh Fusileers from the time they leave from Southhampton for the front until the Battle of Mametz Woods during the Somme Offensive. Jones was a private in the same Regiment as Graves and Sasoon.

[Spider Jerusalem]

15. The first that comes to mind is "War and Peace".

"Intimate and grandiose" seems to fit there, too. If yuou haven't read it, I'd suggest it---although I know from some of you're other posts you're familiar with at least some of Tolstoy's work, so this may be a wasted suggestion.

[JerseygirlCT]

17. Hmm...

I have to say, I only read PL in one night before the exam. I pulled a B, and then pretty much forgot it all after that. I don't remember finding it particularly enjoyable... but cramming might have something to do with that!

[Dorian Gray]

19. Wow...

Derek, if you like doomed/redemptive romances, then Anna Karenina is the book for you.

It's the story of two romances occurring at the same time. One leads to the downfall of a virtous character while the other leads to the redemption of another. It was one of my favorite books last year!

ETA: After reading the entire thread, it seems as though you may already be familiar with this work. I am currently reading East of Eden right now. I like it because of the parallel with the biblical, and Steinbeck is a fantastic writer. I'm only 80 pages in, so I don't know how well I'll like it when it's finished. But, it has the sense of intimacy while still being grand.

Another... Madame Bovary by Flaubert? Have you read it?

[Dorian Gray]

21. Another book

If you are looking for redemptive/doomed romance stories, I really loved The End of the Affair by Graham Greene.

[catbert836]

20. The Shadow of the Wind

Carlos Ruiz Zafon

[kweerwolf]

22. Goethe's "Faust"

I discovered "Faust" in college and was enraptured by it. Granted, the plot will be similar to anyone who's ever read the short story "The Devil and Daniel Webster" (man sells soul to devil for fleeting, earthy pleasures, but learns his greatest satisfaction comes from helping others and is redeemed at the last minute), but for me "Faust" is the work that epitomizes the Romantic movement in literature.