Any Alt History (ala Turtledove) fans here?

[maine_raptor]

Ever since I read Harry Turtledove's WorldWar series (all books including Homeward Bound), and his alt World War I & II series (from How Few Remain on, and understand that the next installment will be out in a couple of months), I've been hooked on Alt History.

I've read the Gingrich/Forstchen Gettysburg series and am awaiting the last installment of the John Birminghan's Weapons of Choice trilogy. I also have picked up and enjoyed Harrison's Stars and Stripes series.

Anybody got any suggestions for other series in this vein?

[FSogol]

1. Gingrich should start work on an alt history novel where

the GOP revolution actually benefits the US.

Nah, too unbelievable. ;-)

[maine_raptor]

2. That would be "Hard Work"

Actually the Gettysburg series ending was quite interesting. It had some real surprisingly "liberal" tones to it. If you haven't read it, I don't want to spoil the ending.

[FSogol]

3. Don't worry I'd never read Gingrich.

And I'm sure the world would be a paradise if the racist mf'ers from the South won the Civil War. :sarcasm:

[maine_raptor]

4. Actually he has the North winning the Civil War.

A year early and with some very profound changes because of it (Lincoln not assassinated, Slavery eliminated via compensation, etc).

[eShirl]

16. Probably because Forstchen likely did most of the writing for it.

As I recall he was not a big fan of Reagan winning the 1980 election.

(I was in two of his half-year History elective classes that year - "History of 20th Century Technology" and "Toward the Year 2000.")

[catbert836]

5. Gingrich?

No thanks.

As for Turtledove, he can't really write his way out of a paper bag. The history is interesting, but the books would go from crappy to excellent if someone with talent actually wrote them.

And if he didn't write so goddamned many.

[Momgonepostal]

6. I'm currently reading The Plot Against America...

by Philip Roth.

The author speculates as to what might have happened if Charles Lindburgh, an alledged anti-Semite, had won the 1940 presidential election instead of Roosevelt.

I'm about halfway through the book and it's very interesting. The main character is a boy named Philip Roth, so I assume the character is based on the authors own family and experiences.

[Solon]

7. Here's a couple of books for ya...

The Two Georges: The Novel of an Alternate America

It was written by Harry Turtledove and Richard Dreyfuss, yes THAT Richard Dreyfuss. Its a novel set in present day America, one where the Revolutionary War never took place. A Detective Novel revolving around a painting of the "Two Georges" a portrait of George Washington and King George III. I won't ruin it for you by describing any more about it, just don't expect TOO much alternate history, I still don't know what the Point of Divergence actually was, but a fun read nonetheless.

Another suggestion is 1632, its sort of a sci-fi alternate history mix, the book is set in a town in West Virginia, a coal mining town. Anyways, one day they were celebrating a wedding, then a sudden flash and a slight boom reverberated throughout the town. The local Union guys then investigate, soon after, smoke they see in the distance. They soon find out that it was a burning farmhouse, of stone and wood. They ended up in one of the worst wars in history, the 30 years war, smack dab in the middle of what today would be Germany. So far there have been quite a few novels written on this "world" if you can call it that, originally enough, the sequel is called 1633, and 1634: The Galileo Affair, and a few other novels have been written so far. Pretty good read overall, the first novel is sort of lighthearted, but the next few novels are less lighthearted.

[arenean]

8. Darwinia

You should try "Darwinia" by Robert Charles Wilson. I've read a few of his books, and this is one of the best.

From the back of the book:-

"In 1912 the world changes overnight. Europe and all its inhabitants disappear, replaced by a primeval continent which becomes known as Darwinia: a strange land in which evolution has followed a different path.

To some this event is an act of divine retribution; to others it is an opportunity to carve out a new empire. Leaving a USA now ruled by religious fundamentalists, young photographer Guilford Law joins an expedition to Darwinia, a mission of discovery which uncovers extraordinary revelations about the whole nature of the universe."

[Yupster]

9. Turtledove fan here

I also liked Newt Gingrich's three parter on Gettysburg although the last ten pages or so seemed weird. It seemed like he had a deadline that he had to finish the series in the next ten pages so all of the sudden the pace went into hyperdrive and it was over.

On Turtledove he's very uneven.

To me he's at his best with "Guns of the South." Very readable and great portraits os army life, etc.

The continuation of his Civil War series to me is him at his worst. The most recent book I wouldn't even call writing. It was just a recitation of World War II with names changed. Pittsburg equals Stalingrad, etc.

The two parter on Pearl Harbor was in my opinion very strong.

I also enjoyed the World War II series with the lizards attacking earth. To me that one's still going strong about eight books later.

I always read his books when they come out just by habit, but some are very, very much better than others.

[krispos42]

10. Leo Frankowski and Harry Turtledove

He wrote several books putting a Polish engineer from the 1980's back to Poland in I believe 1232AD, nine years before the Mongols sweap across Europe like locusts. He had nine years to build an industrial base, train and equip an army, and fend off the Mongol hordes. Lots of technical detail, history, and politics. I read them seveal dozen times when I was a teenager.

Harry Turtledove's "Darkness" series is a fantasy parallel to World War Two. If you know your history you'll have fun figuring out the players and parallels in the 6-book series. And he had a dramatis personae (or however it's spelled lol) to help you keep track.

I also enjoyed Turtledove's the three series of books he wrote that take place in the fictional land of Videssos (Byzantine and Persian empires). The first series features a displaced Roman legion, and subsequent series actually go take place earlier in time.

Turtledove's "In the Presence of Mine Enemies" I thought was an interesting tale of life in an alternative 2009 in Berlin, the heart of the Germanic Empire. It's told from the perspective of several Jewish familes in DEEP hiding from the Nazis. Passing down their histories and traditions in secret when the children are old enough to understand. It's a pretty sobering view of how the Nazi Party indocrinated the youth of Germany.

"A Different Flesh" by Turtledove is a very good read. The premise of this book is that ancient Asians never crossed the Alaskan land bridge thousands of years ago, so that when Columbus discovered the New World in 1492, there were no Native Americans here, just Neaderthals. And wolly mammoths and sabertooth tigers. I believe there are 6 short stories ranging from the 17 to 20th centuries. I don't know if it is still in print, though.

[GaYellowDawg]

11. Small correction...

"A Different Flesh" has australopithecines, not neanderthals. Besides that, very good review.

[Yupster]

19. I thought it was Homo Erectus

oh well -- same point anyway.

[krispos42]

22. I sit corrected ('cuz it's hard to stand and type)

I don't know where my copy is, so I was running off memory. Ah, well.

[GaYellowDawg]

12. Some others...

Roma Eterna, by Robert Silverberg - Rome never falls

Hannibal's Children and The Seven Hills, by John Maddox Roberts - these are the first two parts of a series in which Hannibal defeats Rome, but instead of annihilation, offers national exile.

Domination, by S.M. Stirling - the Loyalists from the American Revolution and Confederates set up shop in South Africa and then subjugate and industrialize the continent

Lion's Blood and Zulu Heart, by Stephen Barnes - an alternate America in which the South was colonized by black Africans, and the North by Vikings, who sell abducted Celts and Franks to the Southerners

The Rivers of War and 1824: The Arkansas War (in press), by Eric Flint - Alternate tale of the War of 1812 and the frontier

For a time travel story that's really cool:

Weapons of Choice, Designated Targets, and Final Impact (in press) by John Birmingham - UN "peacekeeping" fleet from 2020's appear in the middle of Adm. Spruance's Midway fleet. What's really cool about this is the culture clash, which is done better than anything else IMO (e.g., 1940's US Navy personnel response to black and female officers).

[GaYellowDawg]

13. Sorry 'bout the repetition (e.g., Birmingham)

But I see we agree on it!

If you liked Harrison's trilogy, then you'd probably like "1901" and "1862," both by Robert Conroy.

[pitohui]

14. not a series but Bring the Jubilee by ward moore

read bring the jubilee first but later...

not an alternate history novel but a hilarious romp by moore is "greener than you think" which came out for a minute in the 50s and was re-issued for 10 minutes more in the 80s...not sure if it's still around, try the used book marketplace on amazon maybe but it was hilarious, hank hill himself could do no better...

[zcflint09]

15. Turtledove writes excellent alt history

A book I'd suggest for alt history fans is "Resurection Day" by Brendan DuBois--it goes back to after the Cuban Missle Crisis and describes what life would be like in the US if bombs had gone off--New York City, Omaha and San Diego are destroyed--the country is under martial law--and the British are the ones saving us and rebuilding our country, a complete role reversal from WW2. It's a very interesting book with a great sub-plot involving how people live in the "destroyed" cities and the type of martial law portrayed could be exactly like what would happen in the US if another "terra" attack happened.

[Phredicles]

17. I'm surprised no one's mentioned "The Man in the High Castle"

by Philip K. Dick, about if the US had lost WWII.

[BreweryYardRat]

18. *jumps up and down*

I love the vast majority of Turtledove's stuff. Didn't like WorldWar and Darkness series, though.

[Yupster]

20. I like most of his alt histories, but

haven't tackled the magic type stuff.

I hate his Civil War series, but I'm reading the latest in the series "The Grapple" anyway. I don't know why because I've hated the last three books of the series.

I love the WWII series with the Lizards. To me that's wonderful work and I can't wait for the next book of that series.

The Pearl Harbor series was very well done but I hope he's done with it now after two books.

Tome Turtledove's best book was "Guns of the South," and his best character is Fleetlord Atvar from his WWII series. That poor guy. When you're having a bad day just be glad you're not Atvar.

[Yupster]

21. I liked the Gingrich Gettysburg series too

Something weird though.

All of the sudden the book seems to really hurry up its last 20 pages or so. It's like there was a deadline of how many pages they could have and said uh, oh, have to wap everything up now. I think it hurt a good series.

I'm assuming Newt wrote little of it, but I could be wrong.

[hedgehog]

23. Eric Flint's 1632 series beats Turtledove all hollow, IMO

Turtledove just changes one or two facts, then projects the same kind of events happening given that twist. Spoiler warning:

















For example, the South uses the "Final Solution" instead of Nazi Germany. I just don't buy it. On the other hand, Flint assumes that once history starts changing, it goes off in a hundred different directions (culturally, politically, religiously, technically) from what we know. That seems more realistic.