BOOK CLUB JULY: "The Long Emergency" by James Howard Kunstler

[CrispyQ]

"The Long Emergency: Surviving the Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-First Century" by James Howard Kunstler

If you purchase from this link, DU gets a kickback:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0871138883/qid=1120315445/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_ur_1/002-2349647-1398402?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[pstans]

1. Getting started with some links

Here are some links from the author of the book, James Howard Kunstler:
http://www.kunstler.com/
http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/clusterfuck_nation/

Here are some links about Peak Oil:
http://www.endofsuburbia.com/links.htm -has a list of link
http://www.globalpublicmedia.com/ -has interviews and lectures made about Peak Oil
http://www.apolloalliance.org/ -Alliance among public and private groups to create three million good jobs, free ourselves from imported oil, and clean up the environment.
http://www.endofsuburbia.com/ -good documentary on Peak Oil

[brokensymmetry]

2. Excellent book!

The book is well written, with an engaging style. It presents the author's perspective on the implications of the coming energy crises, and gives considerable support for those views.

I urge everyone to read this book so they can plan their lives accordingly - and so they understand the underlying causes of the interesting times we're likely to face.

[Delphinus]

3. I'm down to the last chapter.

On Page 63, he talks about Osama bin Laden. It was not difficult for me to replace OBL with GWB - same type of person, IMO.

I don't agree with some of Kuntsler's statements on Geopolitics, but after seeing and reading David Ray Griffin, I'm taken on so much more the stance of a MIHOP.

The history he brings up is fascinating - a lot of things we can see replaying themselves.

Am hoping for some good tips when I get to Chapter 7.

[pstans]

4. How fierce will Americans fight to maintain their suburban lifestyles?

On page 3 Kunstler says, "The extent of suffering in our country will certainly depend on how tenaciously we attempt to cling to obsolete habits, customs, and assumptions-for instance, how fiercly Americans decide to fight to maintain suburban lifestyles that simply can not be rationalized any longer."

The past month or so, the American people have been turning against the Iraq War. What would happen if our leaders leveled with the American people and connected the fighting over for the SUV sitting in their drive way, the huge houses, and the Big Box stores?

[Delphinus]

5. OK - finished.

I don't think he understands the ramifications of using coal as our primary source. He mentions Professor Albert Bartlett - whom I listened to and understood pretty well - but I don't think he understands how coal isn't going to solve our problems. If we transition over to coal, it's simply going to be eaten up quicker.

I enjoyed and appreciated what he had to say about education - I've been out of high school for 30 years and almost daily realize how little I was taught. I can only imagine what it's like now.

I also appreciated his viewpoint on race relations - something no one has addressed.

Can't say it was an "enjoyable" read simply because of the subject matter. But he talked in a manner that most can relate to. It's obvious we need to address this coming emergency, but, so far, it's not even in the consciousness of most Americans.

[jwirr]

7. The use of coal has a history of it's own. In London

there was so much air polution that it had to be stopped. I do not know where I read that but it was in an article about the beginning of the industrial age. It could work for a while in rural areas but in cities it would be disasterous. Many cities already have too much air polution.

[pstans]

8. A lot of the air pollution in cities is from cars

Cars can't run without gas and oil. They can't run on coal or wind, solar maybe(?). With a drastic reduction in cars, the pollution in cities should decline.

[ramapo]

6. and people worry about the terrorists....

It is so obvious to me that we are our own worst enemy. I believe we were were at a fork in the road about 25 years ago and our society chose the wrong path. Now we will begin to truly realize the ramifications of this choice. It is these effects that Kunstler so eloquently addresses.

I discovered Kunstler a year or two ago as the disquieting feeling I had about our never ending suburban development with all the attendant miseries grew deeper.

How absurd is it that the automobile is even allowed into the downtown of any major cities? Walking is so much more efficient. Imagine how much more pleasant midtown Manhattan would be without any cars.

The lifestyle of so many has become sterile, many live in a cocoon, requiring year-round climate control and motorized transportation for any trip of more than a few hundred yards. Many days I go to the park at lunchtime and usually see at least one person sitting in their car with the windows rolled-up and engine running to maintain the 'proper' climate. I often bike around my suburb and sometimes go for blocks without seeing anybody outside on the most beautiful of days.

Kunstler has laid out the consequences of our unbridled use and dependence on non-renewable energy sources. The degree of obliviousness on the part of most Americans is astounding.

I quibble with a few of his points. I don't see an apocalyptic collapse and believe there will be sufficient resources available to manufacture more efficient and renewable mechanisms for generating energy.

I think some of the areas best suited for survival will be the older, denser suburbs and small cities of the Northeast. These areas have some infrastructure left that might actually support a lifestyle that is not 100% dependant on the automobile.

I believe the potential for serious social unrest is huge and that draconian measures may be required to maintain order.

Apart from retreating to a far corner of some wilderness area and becoming a survivalist living off the grid, I don't see that there is much that one can do to truly prepare for the Long Emergency. Of course if I lived in Las Vegas instead of North Jersey,I think I'd be making plans to move to an area where it might be possible to survive without air-conditioning and water pumped from hundreds of miles away.

Our lifestyles have become bloated beyond reason during the past quarter century. The sense of entitlement runs so deep that I do not believe there is any politician or group with the guts or power to change the thought process of the average American. Americans chose happy talk over reality in 1980 and haven't looked back. The delusion has only grown deeper with each passing year as we've embraced consumption over conservation.

I have a rather deep foreboding of what the future holds. I am mentally prepared for the Long Emergency but find it hard to imagine what will actually happen if the energy infrastructure breaks down. Perhaps common sense will make a comeback.

[jwirr]

9. Just started the book. When he is talking about

local food production it brought to mind a survey that Rodale did in the 70s regarding the extent of local production of food, etc. It would be interesting to see if that information is current. I also read a book back then that asked the question "A castle or a tepee" referring to feudal government or group cooperation. I also believe that we lost the extended family cohesion and support system with the growth of suburban sprawl.

[pstans]

10. Food production and sprawl

One of the Democratic candidates for Governor in Iowa is a State House Rep named Ed Fallon. I heard him say something that stuck out. He said that Iowans spend $8 billion a year on food and 86% of that goes out of state. Here is what Fallon's website says...

As governor, I would set a goal of recapturing $4 billion in potential food sales currently leaving the state. My research indicates this would nearly double the number of Iowa farms, reversing a trend that has become sadly familiar but is hardly inevitable. A New Iowa Homestead Act is needed to help establish young farmers on the land, growing food for Iowans and revitalizing rural communities. The state should serve as a leader to develop partnerships, create market access and help provide loans, land and capital to new farmers. This is an investment that would pay off many times over.

Now it is not logically for Iowans to grow their own Citrus fruit and stuff like that, but Iowans can recoup some of this money that gets sent out of the state and create more jobs doing that.


You made a good point about the loss of family cohesion cause by Sprawl. Kunstler first 2 books (The Geography of Nowhere and Home From Nowhere go more in depth on sprawl, the negative effects of Suburbia, and the need for New Urbanism.).

[jwirr]

11. Reading this book can be dangerous

for ones sanity! I actually am beginning to see where bushie is coming from. Not that I think he has the right solution to American problems but as an oil man I can see where he is getting his money while the getting is good. From that standpoint his damn war even makes sense. That said, I would be pouring money into r&d to come up with usable safe alternatives and ways to keep our local economy working for the most people.

I am only at chapter three so I haven't read what the author is proposing but it would appear that if we have about 30+ years of oil economy left it will mean that some of the programs we have today in government will be irrelevant in a few years. I think the most important thing we can do is r&d and rebuild our local economies.

[pstans]

13. After reading the chapter on Renewable Energy Source or Alternative Energy

I sort of agreed with Bu$h on Nuclear Energy. We will have to build some more nuclear plants to bridge the gap between the end of oil and whatever comes next. But as Kunstler says, you can't run cars and the huge fleet of semi trucks on Nuclear (or solar, wind, etc) and that is a huge problem and requires local economies to be rebuilt.

I am not against building more Nuclear, but would like more of an emphasis on solar and wind. I like the developments with solar energy in California in the last month. The goal should be to have every home have a solar panel on it or solar hot water heater, etc.

Here in Iowa, there is a great potential for Wind production. Iowa is currently the #3 state in the amount of electricity produced by wind, but they can do more. There is a factory getting built in Cedar Rapids that will produce wind turbines. That is great. However, the government is pushing ethanol, which in my opinion requires too much energy put into the corn to produce the little amount of energy ethanol gives. I wish they would swith their focus to wind and solar. Some tax breaks would help the avg Joe put up a wind turbine or put on solar panels.

[jwirr]

14. I also have nothing against nuke plants as long as

they are built safe. However, don't hold you breathe. There are 2 nuke plants (one in Texas and the other is the Tennessee Valley Authority plant) which took over 17 years to build and then were obsolete before they even went on-line and they had to start all over again. I would be interested in kn owning if either are producing power at this time?

[jwirr]

12. Reading this book can be dangerous

for ones sanity! I actually am beginning to see where bushie is coming from. Not that I think he has the right solution to American problems but as an oil man I can see where he is getting his money while the getting is good. From that standpoint his damn war even makes sense. That said, I would be pouring money into r&d to come up with usable safe alternatives and ways to keep our local economy working for the most people.

I am only at chapter three so I haven't read what the author is proposing but it would appear that if we have about 30+ years of oil economy left it will mean that some of the programs we have today in government will be irrelevant in a few years. I think the most important thing we can do is r&d and rebuild our local economies.

[pstans]

15. I just started the last chapter last night

The previous chapter kind of drug on for me. I am more excited about reading the last chapter, it is more of why I wanted to read the book. So far, the book as been pretty glum, so I hope he provides a glimmer of hope and ways to prepare in the last chapter.

[pstans]

16. What are your thoughts about the Land of Nascar vs the Old Union

What are your thoughts about Kunstler's view on the Land of Nascar and the Old Union?

He gives each area a drastically different assessment on their chances after the Long Emergency and gives many examples in each regions culture to explain why.

Do you agree with Kunstler's view?
How does it fit into the current politics that we are seeing now?
Is there any hope in bridging this gap?

[pstans]

18. Politics in the Long Emergency

As for the political implications, I think the underlying notions of Peak Oil will be a big part of the 2008 election. You are already hearing a lot about Global Warming and gas prices, so they could effect 2006. I don't the current Republican party can do anything about productive to change the outcomes of Peak Oil. It just goes against their blood. First, they are oil men and will live and die by the last drop of it. Second, they are God-fearing Christians and will be singing "rapture, rapture" once the first hardships if the Long Emergency happen. Lastly, they are the War Party. They will be fighting for the last remaining drops of oil, if it is Iraq, Iran, Alaska, off the coast of Florida or Louisiana it won't matter, the Republicans will fight for it.

I have hope that the Democratic Party came come up with a solution and bring this into the public consciousness. I really think that most people sense there is a problem on the horizon, but just need someone in power to tell what it is and that they will be OK. A lot of the gains in Renewable Energy is happening at the state level. California just had a big thing happen with Solar energy and here in the midwest, ethanol and wind power are being pushed. The beginnings might be happening there. It might take a Governor to run for President to bring the issue to the forefront. The people in Washington are too disconnected from the everyday problems. Schweitzer, Doyle, Richardson are 3 Democrats that I have done stuff about the Long Emergency.

In Washington, I see just a few people that seem like have a grasp on the problem. Fist, Maria Cantwell, Senator from Washington the 2 senators from New Mexico have pushed hard for Renewable energy to be included for the Energy Bill. Harry Reid and Dick Durbin had good speeches about it during the debates and that gave me hope that they understand the problem. Also, John McCain was outspoken about it too.

I also think Senator Feingold of Wisconsin has a strong environmental record and conviction and could lead us in the right direction. Then there is Al Gore. Gore was an environmental advocate before he was Vice President. He wrote a book in the 1990's called Earth in Balance. He currently is speaking about Global Warming to anyone that will listen. Depending on when the Long Emergency comes about, Gore could be a player in the 2008 election. If people are hit hard enough, they may turn to a politician that has the experience, has led the country in good economic times, and has been an advocate for the environment.

I think any knowledge about Peak Oil into the public is a good thing. We can't wait for politicians to say, "hey, listen up." Make it heard through your actions, buy a better gas mileage car then next you purchase a vehicle, stop shopping at Wal Mart and go to the locally owned store, plant a garden, learn skills like carpentry, sewing, etc, and talk to your neighbors and other people you see around town. It is amazing how many people still think Gas will be back to $1 a gallon soon. Every little bit of information helps bring this important topic to the forefront, where then we can work to ease the impacts of the Long Emergency.

[pstans]

17. Finished the book the other day...my thoughts

I was a little disapointed that it didn't spell out specific things to do to prepare or ease the effects of the Long Emergency. A list of specific things would be very helpful. I guess that would be hard for anyone to do since no one knows what exactly will happen once the Long Emergency comes.

The best chapter in the book in my opinion is the one on Renewable Energy. I learned a lot of basics and about the positives and shortfalls of each source. Although, it was a simplistic version, it allowed me to get on the internet and research some of the renewable sources more in depth and have a good understanding.

I totally believe that Peak Oil is for real, but I am not as pessimistic as Kunstler is. I think living in a world more centered around community is a very good thing. I don't shop at Wal Mart and would love to shop at locally owned stores (there just aren't that many of them in my town of 25,000). I am going to try to gain some of the human skills that Kunstler talked about (like gardening, carpentry, weaving, animal husbandry, etc). Come fall, I will look at my community college, adult ed center and see if they offer any classes in any of these things. I guess the best way to prepare is just to gain as much knowledge as possible.

[IrateCitizen]

19. It's by far the worst book out of his big 3 on suburbia, IMHO...

I've read The Geography of Nowhere and just started Home from Nowhere, and I found The Long Emergency to be little more than Kunstler riffing on his beliefs of what the future holds with very little in the way of factual backup. To be blunt, I found that the book undermined almost completely a rather high regard I held him in beforehand.

His take on geopolitics is completely naive at best, and expressing a neoconservative belief in American exceptionalism at worst. He is completely and utterly dismissive of technology, seemingly because it is something that he really doesn't grasp very well. And worst of all, it takes him away from his strongest suit, which is social commentary on the poor planning that has gone into our communities, and how it has affected our daily lives.

If you don't agree with this assessment, I'll just tell you to look for footnotes in his latest work. For someone who is tackling such a number of topics (peak oil, climate change, population overshoot, bad development practices, geopolitics, etc.), there is a surprising lack of them.

I don't think that technology will solve ALL of our problems, I do believe we've caused a serious ecological imbalance with industrialization, and I sincerely feel that we need to significantly reduce our population. But I found that much of the arrogance exhibited by Kunstler in his latest book, in the way of presenting his opinions and impressions on these topics as gospel, goes a long way toward alienating people from the good things he has to say on a bad development model.

[pstans]

20. I agree

Geography of Nowhere and Home From Nowhere were far better researched. I think maybe the Long Emergency was rushed to get into print. Not sure. I read the book nowing that Kunstler is not a scientist and was looking for basic background information on Peak Oil. If I wanted more in depth information on Peak Oil, I would pick up Heinberg, Roberts, or Deffeyes.

I would highly recommend anyone interested in reading about Suburbia and Urban Sprawl to pick up Geography of Nowhere (Home from Nowhere is more a how-to book). I am not sure if I would recommend the Long Emergency to someone wanting to learn about Peak Oil.