BOOK CLUB AUGUST: “A People's History of the United States” by Howard Zinn

[CrispyQ]

BOOK CLUB AUGUST: “A People's History of the United States” by Howard Zinn


“A People's History of the United States” by Howard Zinn
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060528427/qid=1121984665/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-2187220-5227244?v=glance&s=books&n=507846


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Book Club Guidelines:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=209&topic_id=1152

[mattclearing]

1. What a great book.

Took a whole summer to read, and man was it worth it.

[pstans]

7. Don't say that

I start school in 2 weeks and I am only on page 78.

:yoiks:

[pstans]

2. I started reading this book over the weekend

I have read the first few chapters. I really enjoy this book. I try and look at things from different points of view and as Atticus Finch said, "walk in other people's shoes before judging them." This is exactly how Zinn writes this book. He looks at history through the eyes of the "other" person.

The first 2 chapters sort of gave me a sick feeling in my stomach at the terror and madness it took to build this country. I then think of the current situation in Iraq, the stories of torture at Abu Ghraid and Gitmo, the raping of Iraqi children in prisons, and I think that nothing has changed. Have we really progressed in the past 500 years?

On page 10 there is a quote by Albert Camus that I find very fitting, "in such a world of conflict, a world of victims and executioners, it is a job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners."

[dissent1977]

4. You will find many parallels to what is happening today

"I then think of the current situation in Iraq, the stories of torture at Abu Ghraid and Gitmo, the raping of Iraqi children in prisons, and I think that nothing has changed. Have we really progressed in the past 500 years?"

As you keep reading the book you will find much more that you can relate to the world today. This is one of the things that makes the book so fascinating. Zinn really shows us that things have not really changed that much over the past 500 years. Yet while much of the book is very bleak, he still gives us reason for hope. He shows us that throughout history there have been many heroes, most of whose stories have not been told. They are the people who have fought for workers rights, racial equality, woman's rights, and peace.

It is a great read from beginning to end, and it will definately make you view history in a different way.

[dissent1977]

3. This has to be my favorite book of all time

I love it how he admits in the first chapter that his book is not objective. The truth is there is no such thing as objectivity, most other history books present history from the eyes of the elite Zinn presents it from the eyes of those who did not hold the reigns of power.

While Zinn has taken some criticism because of his admitted bias, the truth is that those who are criticizing him are biased themselves. I find his admission to be refreshingly honest, and it only makes me admire him more.

For those who like this book "Declarations of Independence" and his autobiography "You Can't Be Neutral on a Moving Train" (Which was recently turned into a documentary film) are also great reads.

[acmejack]

5. Fabulous selection!

I just cracked it open today and I am completely enthralled! It really makes the point that Europeans have always been barbarians and we certainly are doing our best to maintain that regrettable tradition.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

6. Sojourner Truth..

What an apt name.


That man over there says that woman needs to be helped into carriages and lifted over ditches...Nobody ever helps me into carriages, or over mud puddles or gives me any best place. And a'nt I a woman?
Look at my arm! I have ploughed, and planted, and gathered into barns, and no man could head me! And a'nt I a woman?
I would work as much and eat as much as a man, when I could get it, and bear the lash as well. And a'nt I a woman?
I have borne thirteen children and seen em most all sold off to slavery, and when I cried out with my mother's grief, none but Jesus heard me! And a'nt I a woman?
1851


I know that it feels a kind o' hissin' and ticklin' like to see a colored woman get up and tell you about things, and Womans Rights. We have all been thrown down so low that nobody thought we'd ever get up again;but... we will come up again, and now I'm here... we'll have our rights, see if we don't, and you can't stop us from them; see if you can. You may hiss as much as you like, but it is comin'...I am sittin' among you to watch; and every once and awhile I will come out and tell you what time of night it is...
1853

[zinndependence]

8. this is my favorite book...

In fact, I incorporated Zinn's work into all of the classes I taught (my position has recently been cut due to declining enrollment and budget cuts)...I taught Social Psychology, Political Science and United States History at the high school level. His work was easily incorporated into all of those courses. The kids seemed genuinely drawn to Zinn's work....his perspective was unexpected for most of them. I'm sure for example, most kids were fed the typical Columbus-story myth. To learn the story from the perspective of the Arawaks was an "eye-opener." Also, I have to agree with an earlier post...it easy to draw many parallels to today. It seems as if we have collective amnesia...either we can't seem to learn from our past historical mistakes or we choose not to learn from those mistakes.

For any teachers out there...there are Teacher's Editions of A People's History with discussion questions at the end of each chapter.

Finally, I would like to recommend Declarations of Independence, by Howard Zinn and Can't Be Neutral on a Moving Train, by Howard Zinn.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

9. Regarding the Arawaks

Another great book -- though at a level below your high school students -- is "Morning Girl" by Michael Dorris. Though it's ostensibly a children's book, the last few pages pack a horrifying punch on perspective and humanity.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

10. Verily, poor as we are in democracy how can we give of it to the world?...

Verily, poor as we are in democracy how can we give of it to the world?...a democracy conceived in the military servitude of the masses, in their economic enslavement, and nurtured in their tears and blood, is not democracy at all. It is despotism - the cumulative result of a chain of abuses which, according to that dangerous document, the Declaration of Independence, the people have the right to overthrow...

Emma Goldman 1917
Sent to prison for opposing the draft


"Why do the right wing media so assiduously scrutinize the words of a grief filled mother and ignore the words of a lying president?"

Cindy Sheenan 2005
Camped on bush's front stoop


I'm proud to be a member of the gender. :)

[ramapo]

11. This is a multi-monther

I've had this on my bookshelf for a few months. Now is the time to get to work on it. I haven't found it an easy read so this will probably take me into September.

[CrispyQ]

14. These threads remain open, so please continue to post your

thoughts & comments, even after August! I am finally finishing "Unequal Protection" from June & will post something in the next few weeks.

Here's a link to links to other book club title discussions:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=209x2222

[La Coliniere]

12. THE most important American history book

ever written. Not hyperbole nor mere one-sided opinion, simply the truth. And as they say: The truth shall set you free. Terrifying and liberating all at the same time.

[zinndependence]

15. I agree...it should be required reading for all high school students

I admit that is optimistic....I've been up against some opposition over the years as a public school social studies teacher. (I've been teaching for seven years.) Sometimes I'm blown away by what parents say...I've been criticized for teaching kids about what has been called the "nadir" - the period between Reconstruction and the Depression. I used an article from George magazine about the exhibit, "Without Sanctuary." A parent actually said, "are you presenting the other perspective?" I thought, what other perspective, as if I needed to provide a positive spin to the lynching of hundreds of innocent people....give me a break! I've also been criticized for encouraging activism by using resources such as Zinn's works as well as Loewen's Lies My Teacher Told Me. This parent said, "you should be "teaching" not encouraging activism!" I guess I would have to respectfully disagree...

[CrispyQ]

19. You sound like a wonderful teacher!

The kind of teacher I would want teaching my children, if I had any.

Why would a parent want their children learning a watered down version of the truth, or worse, a total fabrication? (Which is what I learned - fabrication. I had a great teacher in the 5th grade who mentioned that the patents on all new inventions were in the name of men because a woman couldn't file a patent. I swear, she was the first feminist teacher I had. What she said stuck with me all these years.)

I guess the old saying 'people who ignore history are doomed to repeat it' means nothing to them. Or else, they don't have a problem with where we've already been & want to go back to those times. Arghh!!

BTW, I will check out "Lies My Teacher Told Me."

:hi:


ps - love yor username!

[CrispyQ]

13. I finally received my copy & read the first chapter last night.

I think I've learned more true & accurate history in that one chapter than in my 12 years of secondary education. What an eye opener! Whoa! Columbus was a cad. A totally unprincipled prick motivated entirely by greed. How sad that this behavior seems to be the legacy of western civilization.

This book should be required for high school history instead of the candy coated bullcrap that's taught. Looking forward to the rest of the book.

[zinndependence]

16. you would love James Loewen's Lies My Teacher Told Me

There is an entire chapter on the Columbus myth. It is hard to believe Columbus Day is a national holiday?!?!

[pstans]

17. My brother has a masters in History

and he is a lawyer now. He reads a ton of books, so I told him that I was reading Zinn and asked what his opinion was. He said, "Isn't he liberal?" He said that he never read him and it wasn't really schollarly.

Here is some background on my brother. He is pretty moderate in Politics, he voted for Kerry in 2004 and supported McCain in 2000. He would call himself a Democrat, but is way more moderate than me. He is in love with the author of the book 1776.

I told him how Zinn wrote from the perspective of the underdog and downtrodden, not the victors. This different view was pretty interesting. When I am done reading I am going give my copy to my brother to let him read it and see if he changes his mind.

[DivinBreuvage]

20. Re: "scholarly", popular history is DAMNED by many academicians

which is one of the reasons there's such a disconnect now between history as the scholars see it and history as the millions of buyers of popular history books see it.

The renowned Civil War historian James McPherson, who is certainly very "scholarly", makes some wrenching observations on this phenomenon in his essay "What's the Matter with History", which you can find in his "Drawn With the Sword: Reflections on the American Civil War." He was actually disinvited from a Civil War conference because his "Battle Cry of Freedom" became a bestseller.

Also, C. Vann Woodward and Ken Burns discuss it in "Ken Burns's The Civil War" by Robert Brent Toplin.

[K-W]

18. For those who dont know this book now has a companion piece.

Voices of a People’s History of the United States
http://www.sevenstories.com/Book/index.cfm?GCOI=58322100666900

Get the story in thier own words.

[StellaBlue]

21. I just started reading this...

I happened to check this out at the public library yesterday, currently being between jobs due to almost unbelievable personal circumstances... long story...

Anyway, I am already into chapter three, and it's great, though not incredibly well-written. I suppose, though, that its simple writing style is good because it makes the book more accessible. Though I doubt W would be able to understand all the big words.

I've found the parts about the Native Americans fascinating; I can't wait to move on to 'Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee', which I plan to read next; then, after that, the complete Thoreau!

I have long suspected that the American revolution was both far less egalitarian and less revolutionary than generally assumed, and this book is giving me some facts to back that up. It is a bit unseemly that so many 'founding fathers' were talking out one side of their mouth about liberty and giving orders to their slaves out of the other side. Much less that they didn't explicity include women in their democracy.

In a similar vein, my mom and I watched 'Mr Smith Goes to Washington' last night - I can't believe some W-supporting RWers point to it as an example of great American filmmaking. Just another instance of their total lack of the ability to appreciate irony. Especially since the whole action hinges on a filibuster! ANYWAY...

Also, this is my first post on DU! Very excited to have finally joined after about two years of lurking!

[CrispyQ]

22. Welcome to DU, StellaBlue!!!

And we're glad to have you in the non-fiction forum too!

:hi:



Yes, our beginnings were strife with double standards! Recently my mother, who voted for boosh twice, said that she is PO'd at him because "the Hispanics are stealing our country from us via poor border control." I reminded her that we stole the country from the Indians & that payback is a bitch. My oh my, she cannot stand to be reminded that our beginnings are not as noble as she would like to think.

This book will be a multi-monther for me. No way I can finish it in 4 weeks, especially with 4 other books going! Arghh!!

[NMMNG]

23. I've just started reading this

And already I'm sad....even before we were "Americans" we were so cruel to people. :cry:

[StellaBlue]

24. A thought on 'we'

I realized recently, having returned to the USA after living abroad for four years, that there is no 'we'. Not historically speaking.

It is interesting to see from whence certain aspects of culture have evolved. Since I am a white, Southern female, it would be easy for me to read the parts about the 'Founding Fathers' and the white Southerners and the Texas Rangers and think 'we' did horrible things. But, fact is, *I* didn't do them. I really identify more with the indentured servants and the Native Americans and the slaves and the gilded-cage women and the immigrants and the laborers than with any of the above groups. And yet I share the assumptions of the ruling class in many ways. But this can be gotten past!

Just as * doesn't represent me or you or the 49% that didn't vote for him, or, in our opinion as DUers, the 99% of the country that doesn't constitute his elite 'base', neither is Tony Blair Britain. This is obvious. Why, then, is it not also obvious that the Founders and the Rebels and the Rangers are not 'us', either? They are the same people as * and Blair and Mugabe and Hitler and the robber barons and the slaveholders and the 'missionaries' to Africa and the 'civilizing' British in India. That's not MY cultre, not MY values.

I don't know about the Marxist idea that class trumps everything. I mean, look at how men continue to oppress women even within minority/oppressed groups, for godssake! There are multiple inhumanities. But only one compassion. There is no such thing as compassionate conservatism or enlightened despotism or paternal imperialism.

Some very wealthy people are NOT on the side of the *s and Blairs of the world. And some very poor people are very evil-minded.

So, to me, it's about actions and compassion.

I refuse to identify myself with the 'we' that committed genocide against the Native Americans. I refuse to identify myself with the 'we' that is invading and occupying foreign nations that have not attacked us. I DO identify with the 'we' that is stranded in New Orleans, abandoned by their 'rulers'; with the 'we' that marched in Selma; with the 'we' of the Haymarket Riots.

I think you get my gist. haha

Anyway, I just had this realization in the past few weeks. It was very freeing.

But it's very important to make clear, through ACTIONS.

[NMMNG]

25. Very true

I certainly don't personally align myself with the likes of the neocons/fundies, the rich, the powerful, etc. And I was in no way responsible for the sins of the past generations. However even without identifying with any of the "we"s who commit the atrocious acts against one another, I still become disheartened reading/seeing/hearing about them. Just knowing of the depravities humans commit against one another make me sad. It's one of the dangers of being so empathic.