Group Idea: Political Discussion Book Club!?

[crispini]

They did this over on Salon. Every year at the end of the year the members came up with a list of books they wanted to read - 12, one for each month. Then they'd get together and discuss that book on the given month. I'd like to see a book club specifically on political books (although there could be another one for fiction, if people wanted that), things like "What's the Matter with Kansas" and "Don't Think of An Elephant." I am dying to do more systematic reading on politics today as well as historical perspectives (the Ben Franklin bio, maybe? The Clinton bio?) and would love to have good recommendations from the intelligent people on this board, as well as fun people to bounce things off of.

Thoughts? It seems to me this would be exactly what a "group" is for?

[Tesibria]

1. LUV it

think this is a TERRIFIC idea. Have been on a "program" of one political book a week for the past year (ok ok, I had a LOT of catching up to do) ... and would love to join a discussion re: these books !!

~Tes
News & Views from the Left at www.democracyiscoming.com - Proud to be Member of the Moral Minority at www.cafepress.com/tesibria - Spotlight on the Real Morals of the alleged "Moral Majority" at www.redmorals.com

[JitterbugPerfume]

2. great!!!

we tried to have a book club before but now that we have our OWN FORUM



WAHOOOOOOOOOO

[crispini]

4. ONE A WEEK?

Jeez, you must read fast.

Ok, with all that reading under your belt, I'm sure you've got suggestions for our proposed book club's list? :D

[Tesibria]

6. it's a.... "gift" ... of having

... adhd :) Reading was escape as a child (then again, no TV and no radio .. pushes kids to books). I'm a rabid reader. Read at least one fiction and one nonfiction a week, most weeks. Will have to think of a few great suggestions ...

~Tes
News & Views from the Left at www.democracyiscoming.com - Proud to be Member of the Moral Minority at www.cafepress.com/tesibria - Spotlight on the Real Morals of the alleged "Moral Majority" at www.redmorals.com

[lovedems]

3. That would be great.

I know when other political books came out (Like O'Neil's just to give an example) it was heavily discussed on DU between those who read it.

Fabulous idea!

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

5. I'd be interested,

but I'd also like to read some non-political books.

[Tesibria]

7. Few suggestions ....

...prepare to flame away :) :)

1. Truth and Consequences: Seven who would not be silenced, by Greg Mitchell (available used at www.amazon.com, www.powells.com and www.abebooks.com).
Story of 7 whistleblowers - the good, bad and ugly. Just got this book - Studs Terkel gave glowing review.

2. , by Thomas Frank
Because it's new and relevant

3. , by George Crile
Great book b/c it is funny, however horrifying, and very revealing about how government really (?!) works

4. ,
by Mary Anne Weaver
Quick read, fascinating insights into both Pakistan and Afghanistan

5 , by Noreena Hertz
Another book I just got on the strong recommendation of several friends. "Fast becoming the central text of the antiglobalization movement," according to Christian Science Monitor

All that being said, I'm open to anything!

~Tes
News & Views from the Left at www.democracyiscoming.com - Proud to be Member of the Moral Minority at www.cafepress.com/tesibria - Spotlight on the Real Morals of the alleged "Moral Majority" at www.redmorals.com

[crispini]

10. I *totally* wanna read the Thomas Frank.

The Charlie Wilson one looks totally entertaining.

"From Publishers Weekly
Put the Tom Clancy clones back on the shelf; this covert-opschronicle is practically impossible to put down. No thriller writerwould dare invent Wilson, a six-feet-four-inch Texas congressman,liberal on social issues but rabidly anti-Communist, a boozer, engagedin serial affairs and wheeler-dealer of consummate skill. Onlyslightly less improbable is Gust Avrakotos, a blue-collar Greekimmigrant who joined the CIA when it was an Ivy League preserve andfought his elitist colleagues almost as ruthlessly as he fought theSoviet Union in the Cold War's waning years. In conjunction withPresident Zia of Pakistan in the 1980s, Wilson and Arvakotoscircumvented most of the barriers to arming the Afghanmujahideen-distance, money, law and internal CIA politics, to name afew. "

[Tesibria]

11. Of all the books I read in the past 12 months ..

... there were some better written, some more serious ... but NONE that grabbed me like this one. I could NOT stop reading. I could NOT stop gasping -- laughing then realizing how utterly horrible it was -- and stopping.

it is a TERRIFIC read. Like a truly great tragi-comedy, the BIG message slips in unssuspected and smacks you across the head.

even if people don't want it for a book group book -- i highly recommend it -- it has gone on my 'most recommended' nonfiction list.

~Tes
News & Views from the Left at www.democracyiscoming.com - Proud to be Member of the Moral Minority at www.cafepress.com/tesibria - Spotlight on the Real Morals of the alleged "Moral Majority" at www.redmorals.com

[mike6640]

8. I wanted to suggest this book

but I have only got about a third through.

'The Blind Watchmaker', by Dawkins

It is a thesis on evolution and the complexity of life, one step at a time. Dawkins does a pretty good job quoting and rebutting the 'creationist' arguments.

M

[Tesibria]

12. oooh

i just placed an amazon order on creation science pro and con -- will have to go back and adjust my order!

ON EDIT
Jeeze -- I LUV this stuff ... Amazon shows , by Richard Dawkins ...AND... the book purporting to rebut the Watchmaker book: , by by Neil Broom

~Tes
News & Views from the Left at www.democracyiscoming.com - Proud to be Member of the Moral Minority at www.cafepress.com/tesibria - Spotlight on the Real Morals of the alleged "Moral Majority" at www.redmorals.com

[crispini]

14. That does look good.

Also, anything by Molly Ivins, Al Franken, Michael Moore, etc. I haven't read much of their stuff and I'd like to....

[Fleurs du Mal]

49. Excellent book

as is The Selfish Gene.

[crispini]

9. Let's see, I went back to read the "Groups" rule

And they say that we need ten members with donor stars in this thread to agree to the group. We also need a mission statement.

Here are the folks in this thread who have said "might be interested" so far although I haven't checked everyone's donor star status yet....

1) crispini
2) Tesibria
3) JitterbugPerfume
4) lovedems
5) Zing Zing (also wants fiction)
6) mike6640
7) ?
8) ?
9) ?
10) ?


I thought about the fiction vs. nonfiction thing... I guess what I'd like to see is, if there are enough interested people to have 2, then maybe we should have 2. If there are not enough interested people to have 2, then we could have 1 until such time as it gets a little bigger. What do you guys think?

Let's see, here's a shot at a mission statement:

The DU (fiction and/or nonfiction, as appropriate) book club will discuss (political and/or various) books. We will discuss 1 book per month, the 12 books for the year to be decided the December before, by discussion and consensus. The aims of the group are to encourage reading of a variety of interesting books and to faciliiate friendly discussion.

Howzzat? Thoughts?

This is fun! :D

edited for spelling & grammar.

[Tesibria]

15. Thots

My thoughts:

A. This is a nonfiction group. There is a DIFFERENT forum group for Fiction. I think the issue/request was to do Nonfiction other than political nonfiction.

B. I don't think we should select all 12 books at once -- there's just too many good books that come out that we'll want to read as well. I suggest that we select books on a quarterly basis, as described below.

C. I like the mission statement, with following suggestions:

The mission of the DU Nonfiction Book Club is to encourage active reading of, and friendly discussion about, nonfiction books applicable to our lives today. We will read and discuss any nonfiction book, political or nonpolitical, of interest to our members. We will strive to cover as broad a range of topics as our members are interested.

We will discuss 1 book per month. We will select the books, through consensus, on a quarterly basis as follows:
1. In January, we will select the books for April, May and June.
2. In April, we will select the books for July, August and September.
3. In July, we will select the books for October, November and December.
4. In October, we will select the books for January, February and March.

.... thots on these thots?

~Tes
News & Views from the Left at www.democracyiscoming.com - Proud to be Member of the Moral Minority at www.cafepress.com/tesibria - Spotlight on the Real Morals of the alleged "Moral Majority" at www.redmorals.com

[crispini]

16. Sounds good to me.

Es bueno! :D

[DebJ]

22. If we select books for Jan-Feb-March soon, could be Christmas

wish list...

[Senior citizen]

23. I'm in.

But I don't really agree with the mission statements. Mine would be something like:

The DU non-fiction forum will discuss books relevant to current events and issues of interest, alert DUers to new books worth reading, and facilitate discussion of books that we have read.

Since I cannot afford to buy books, I have to borrow them from the library. Often I have to suggest that the library purchase them, put in a reserve request, and wait for months to get the book. So I wouldn't be able to participate in a time limited reading program.

I can certainly see a new thread being opened each month for the discussion of a particular book by those who can get it, with announcements posted ahead of time. But I'll often hear or read an author interview on the same day a book comes out, and run to the library to see if they've ordered it or are willing to. When a new book happens to be really good or really important, I can't see putting it in a queue for several months before discussing it.

Maybe I just don't understand the group thing?

[crispini]

26. Well, there are going to be LOTS of other threads

in this forum with current books, etc. So if you run out and get something hot, there's absolutely nothing to stop it coming in this books forum (where we are now) and posting a thread about it.

Your mission statement is pretty much the mission statement of the forum we're in now, heh heh heh....

The point of a scheduled book club is to
- give each other reading lists
- read something that you might not ordinarily, because the book club is discussing it
- encourage you to FINISH a book you might not ordinarily plow your way through ... I for one am bad about non fiction, and got only about halfway into Clinton's autobiography before putting it down. I'm sure there's good stuff in the last half I haven't read, but I have't read it. Heh.

[OrwellwasRight]

31. Look here for other interested folks

(and we even started the thread before the big restructuring):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x1981314

I am in the middle of three non-fictions I'd like to put up for consideration:
Wealth & Democracy--Phillips
Best Democracy Money Can Buy (Revised Edition)--Palast
Downsizing Democracy--Crenson & Ginsberg

I'm also very interested in the What's the Matter with Kansas book.

Thanks for listening. :hi:

[Tafiti]

13. I'd be interested...

...but I'm kind of a slow reader. What kind of time frames are we looking at for starting and finishing a book?

On edit: my bad, all I had to do was look up and there was my answer. I could definitely swing that. I'm in.

[Dirty Hippie]

17. I like the idea.

So many times when reading a political book I have thought about what other DUers think about a point the author is presenting.

Personally, I want to read Sy Herch's book. Might piss me off though.

[indigo32]

18. I'm up for a a political book club

if we do one book a month. I don't think we necessarily need a separate group either.

[Tangledog]

19. Six weeks per book?

Instead of a month?

This is just my personal eccentricity, but I tend to feel a bit hurried in a month. Of course, I know I'm not alone when I attest that my "to be read" pile is bigger than some people's Hummers :D .

[crispini]

27. Maybe we could adjust for long ones?

For example, pair a short one like the George Lakoff book with a long one? Would that work for you?

[Fleurs du Mal]

51. Why not set the time based on the book at hand

rather than pigeon-holing all books into a specific time frame?

[DemBones DemBones]

20. I'm in! And here are some suggestions for books to read.

Kevin Phillips's "American Dynasty" (about the Bushes)

Richard Clark's "Against All Enemies"(about the screw ups, and the right things done by, four different American presidents that led us to our current situation)

and "Imperial Hubris" by Anonymous (about why the U.S. does not understand Osama bin Laden's motivations and why we will not succeed in establishing democracy in the tribal Islamic society of Afghanistan, or fare much better in Iraq.)

I also want to read Seymour Hersh's new book. Oh, and a good friend says "Iron Triangle" is a must read. It's about the Carlyle Group, as I recall.

I also just read "April Blood," which is about the Pazzi Conspiracy aganst the Medici in 15th century Florence but I guess we're just doing contemporary U.S. politics. ;-)

Of course, I also very recently read a novel set in 15th century Florence and the parts about Savonarola affected me more now that I know about the Christian Reconstructionists/ aka Dominionists in our country and am wondering how much influence their thinking will come to have. Plus ca change, plus ca meme, oui?

[DebJ]

21. I would like to read the first three on your list. We have the

American Dynasty, my hubby read it already. And the other two I started to read at Borders.

[RumpusCat]

24. Political Lit Discussion--yay!

I admit that the prospect of discussion political books with people is one of the reasons I went from lurking here to getting a username and posting. I love reading non-fiction, but most book clubs are fiction.

I've recently read What's the Matter with Kansas and Against All Enemies. Reading them together was interesting; it provided a total picture of the neocon agenda, in the way Frank's theory of their domestic agenda supports the war agenda that Clark hints at. Also, Eric Alterman's What Liberal Media? The Truth About Bias and the News, especially now.

Current reading: When Corporations Rule the World, by David C. Korten.

^_^

[kohodog]

25. Welcome to the rumpus, rumpus!

Korten's book is very good. I tried to get my family to read it to no avail. There is a lot to discuss in that one, especially about consumption and globalism. I gave my copy to my sister this summer and want to get it back.

[crispini]

28. OK, I believe we have our 10 with stars and our mission statement:

Ten nominating members:
1) crispini
2) Tesibria
3) JitterbugPerfume
4) lovedems
5) transitor97
6) indigo32
7) Senior citizen
8) indigo32
9) Tangledog
10) DemBones DemBones

Mission statement:
The mission of the DU Nonfiction Book Club is to encourage active reading of, and friendly discussion about, nonfiction books applicable to our lives today. We will read and discuss any nonfiction book, political or nonpolitical, of interest to our members. We will strive to cover as broad a range of topics as our members are interested.

We will discuss 1 book per month. We will select the books, through consensus, on a quarterly basis as follows:
1. In January, we will select the books for April, May and June.
2. In April, we will select the books for July, August and September.
3. In July, we will select the books for October, November and December.
4. In October, we will select the books for January, February and March.

I guess can everyone REPLY with a YEA or NAY before I trot over to Ask the Admins and ask for our own group?

I was thinking about this... I guess we COULD just do the book club here.... but I think it would be nice to have a room of our own, so to speak... then our threads would be all together, etc. Besides I fully expect to be over in THIS forum a lot too....

Thoughts?

[crispini]

29. Ok, here are our nominations.

I put down who they were nominated by, and if someone else said "me too" then I put "seconded by" and clipped any text from the thread. Did I miss anything?

Tesebria: Truth and Consequences: Seven who would not be silenced, by Greg Mitchell (available used at www.amazon.com, www.powells.com and www.abebooks.com ). Story of 7 whistleblowers - the good, bad and ugly. Just got this book - Studs Terkel gave glowing review.

Tesebria: What's the Matter with Kansas, by Thomas Frank
Because it's new and relevant
**Seconded by Crispini

Tesebria: Charlie Wilsons War, by George Crile
Great book b/c it is funny, however horrifying, and very revealing about how government really (?!) works
**Seconded by crispini

Tesebria: Pakistan: In the Shadow of Jihad and Afghanistan,
by Mary Anne Weaver. Quick read, fascinating insights into both Pakistan and Afghanistan

Tesebria: The Silent Takeover: Global Capitalism and the Death of Democracy, by Noreena Hertz. Another book I just got on the strong recommendation of several friends. "Fast becoming the central text of the antiglobalization movement," according to Christian Science Monitor

mike6640: 'The Blind Watchmaker', by Dawkins
It is a thesis on evolution and the complexity of life, one step at a time. Dawkins does a pretty good job quoting and rebutting the 'creationist' arguments.
**seconded by Tesibria

OMG: Sy Hersh's new book
**seconded by Dem Bones Dem Bones

Dem Bones Dem Bones: Kevin Phillips's "American Dynasty" (about the Bushes)
**seconded by DebJ

Dem Bones Dem Bones: Richard Clark's "Against All Enemies"(about the screw ups, and the right things done by, four different American presidents that led us to our current situation)
**seconded by DebJ

Dem Bones Dem Bones: "Imperial Hubris" by Anonymous (about why the U.S. does not understand Osama bin Laden's motivations and why we will not succeed in establishing democracy in the tribal Islamic society of Afghanistan, or fare much better in Iraq.)
**seconded by DebJ

Dem Bones Dem Bones: "Iron Triangle" is a must read. It's about the Carlyle Group, as I recall.

crispini: George Lakoff's "Don't Think of an Elephant: Know Your Values and Frame the Debate" -- this book is great, very timely and practical. Short, an easy read, and very good if you're wondering about "framing." Howard Dean and John Kerry are both big fans of Lakoff. IMO this should be required reading for every candidate or anyone working on a campaign.

RumpusCat -- were those nominations, or just thoughts? :) and welcome! :hi:

I guess we've got a good lot here -- we need to choose-- I guess everyone put down their top three from this list for the next quarter? and then we'll choose from those, kind of like IRV?

On edit: Or is it too quick to close nominations? I guess we could take some more? we could nominate up until the end of November and then that would give us, oh, the first week of December to vote. That'd be plenty of time to make Christmas lists! :D

Although this list is kinda long already... :D

[crispini]

30. So we'd vote like this:

1- Lakoff, Don't Think of an Elephant
2- Thomas Frank, What's the Matter with Kansas
3- Anonymous, Imperial Hubris.

And then using IRV we'd... um, any IRV experts here?

Do you guys think this'll work? On the right track here?

[OrwellwasRight]

33. Can you add my books to the nomination list?

See previous post. All else sounds pretty good. How long do you propose we have to vote?

I guess here's my question about becoming a separate group as opposed to doing the book discussion here:

What's the benefit? I mean, what could we do with a separate forum that we could not do here?

Also, we might want to think about having somebody volunteer to be a discussion leader for each book. Among other things (like perhaps thinking of interesting discussion starters just in case we were in need, which seems unlikely with this group), that person could "Kick"the thread at least once everyday so that the discussion could stay active and on the front page throughout the month. This would allow late book finishers, folks who'd been busy or away on vacation, and newbies to join in any time before we moved on to the next book (then of course, if there was still more to be said after the month, that's OK too, it just wouldn't be the "focus" of the group that month).

Just my two cents. Thanks for reading. And thanks for herding the cats on this one.

[crispini]

35. Well the real benefit I see of having a separate forum

Is not having to do what you said, i.e. kick the threads. I'm thinking we'll have at most two or three topics active at any one time:

- Book club "Admin" thread like this one for figuring out what book is next.
- Current month's book
- And maybe previous month's book for as long as it stays active.

The only think I was thinking of is that the threads might get kind of long, and for dial-up users, we should probably break them up in to part 1, part 2, and so on, because presumably by the end of the month there will be a lot of posts. So we'd have 6 or 8 threads that could get lost in here fairly easily... I just think it'd be cleaner.

:shrug: I'm a Libra, I can see both sides on this one pretty easily. We could start off in here and make a request for our own group if we feel the need? What do you think?

[OrwellwasRight]

41. That all makes sense to me.

It sounds really organized as you describe it and it would definitely make it easier to go directly to the book discussion thread we want instead of having to sift through "What's you favorite cook book?," etc. on the general non-fiction forum.

And, fyi, I wasn't particularly challenging the idea of a separate group, just want to get all the facts.

I assume there will not be any negatives to having a separate group, e.g., it wouldn't be somehow restricted as to membership or anything, correct?

[crispini]

42. I just saw another post that said

that you can't even POST in a DU group without being a donor. :(

Anyone wanna try this out and verify it?

If that's the case, I'd be up for keeping the book club here until there are some really clear reasons to move it to a group.

[Fleurs du Mal]

47. Keep the new topics under lock and key if possible

One thread per book, one per nomination cycle, and one maybe for books that make it into the book club's recommended reading list? If new threads are allowd to spawn out of control it will seriously dilute discussion of the books. Many tend to be lazy and, rather than read existing threads and find places where their topic may alread be in discusssion, just create a new thread.

[AP]

32. I think this is a great idea.

[Eurobabe]

34. excellent, count me in, I need some discipline

Here's my choices from those mentioned (crispini great minds think alike!)

1- Lakoff, Don't Think of an Elephant
2- Thomas Frank, What's the Matter with Kansas
3- Anonymous, Imperial Hubris.

I'd add a couple more books:

Lakoff: Moral Politics
Pete Petersen: Running On Empty - How The Democratic and Republican Parties Are Bankrupting Our Future and What Americans Can Do About It
Lou Dobbs: Exporting America

[indigo32]

36. My votes

1. The Silent Takeover: Global Capitalism and the Death of Democracy, by Noreena Hertz.

2. OMG: Sy Hersh's new book

3. George Lakoff's "Don't Think of an Elephant: Know Your Values and Frame the Debate

[crispini]

37. So, ok, let's say Nominations OPEN until Nov. 19.

the end of the week? Is that long enough?

Then we can vote until the end of November? That way we'd get this done in November.

The Thomas Frank is looking like a real favorite.... I'm guessing that'll be first pick for many. :D

Thoughts?

[crispini]

38. And here is the updated nom list as of Monday

Tesebria: Truth and Consequences: Seven who would not be silenced, by Greg Mitchell (available used at www.amazon.com, www.powells.com and www.abebooks.com ). Story of 7 whistleblowers - the good, bad and ugly. Just got this book - Studs Terkel gave glowing review.

Tesebria: What's the Matter with Kansas, by Thomas Frank
Because it's new and relevant
**Seconded by Crispini
**Seconded by OrwellWasRight
**Seconded by 48percenter

Tesebria: Charlie Wilsons War, by George Crile
Great book b/c it is funny, however horrifying, and very revealing about how government really (?!) works
**Seconded by crispini

Tesebria: Pakistan: In the Shadow of Jihad and Afghanistan,
by Mary Anne Weaver. Quick read, fascinating insights into both Pakistan and Afghanistan

Tesebria: The Silent Takeover: Global Capitalism and the Death of Democracy, by Noreena Hertz. Another book I just got on the strong recommendation of several friends. "Fast becoming the central text of the antiglobalization movement," according to Christian Science Monitor

mike6640: 'The Blind Watchmaker', by Dawkins
It is a thesis on evolution and the complexity of life, one step at a time. Dawkins does a pretty good job quoting and rebutting the 'creationist' arguments.
**seconded by Tesibria

OMG: Sy Hersh's new book
**seconded by Dem Bones Dem Bones

Dem Bones Dem Bones: Kevin Phillips's "American Dynasty" (about the Bushes)
**seconded by DebJ

Dem Bones Dem Bones: Richard Clark's "Against All Enemies"(about the screw ups, and the right things done by, four different American presidents that led us to our current situation)
**seconded by DebJ

Dem Bones Dem Bones: "Imperial Hubris" by Anonymous (about why the U.S. does not understand Osama bin Laden's motivations and why we will not succeed in establishing democracy in the tribal Islamic society of Afghanistan, or fare much better in Iraq.)
**seconded by DebJ
**Seconded by 48percenter

Dem Bones Dem Bones: "Iron Triangle" is a must read. It's about the Carlyle Group, as I recall.

crispini: George Lakoff's "Don't Think of an Elephant: Know Your Values and Frame the Debate" -- this book is great, very timely and practical. Short, an easy read, and very good if you're wondering about "framing." Howard Dean and John Kerry are both big fans of Lakoff. IMO this should be required reading for every candidate or anyone working on a campaign.
**Seconded by 48percenter

OrwellwasRight: Wealth & Democracy--Phillips

OrwellwasRight: Best Democracy Money Can Buy (Revised Edition)--Palast

OrwellwasRight: Downsizing Democracy--Crenson & Ginsberg

48percenter: Lakoff: Moral Politics

48percenter: Pete Petersen: Running On Empty - How The Democratic and Republican Parties Are Bankrupting Our Future and What Americans Can Do About It

48percenter: Lou Dobbs: Exporting America

[Eurobabe]

39. can we make a poll when everyone has their suggestions in?

that might be easier...??

[crispini]

40. Oh, good idea! D'oh!

Except everyone should get three votes. Because there are three books. I've never started a poll, do they work like that?

[Eurobabe]

43. Looks like you can only do a poll in the thread directory

not at the folder level. Skinner? Help? We need to ask him how we can initiate a poll within our group. I am sure he can enable it. (mebee I've had too much wine with dinner?)

I just wrote to Skinner, let's see what he comes back with...

[indigo32]

45. You can do a poll anywhere you can post I believe

but it only allows responding with a single answer... can't put in rankings or anything like that.

[Eurobabe]

61. Skinner wrote and said you can only start a poll in a new thread.

bummer.

[Eurobabe]

44. On the Lakoff theme

A book recommended to me as key to understanding Moral Politics (pre-reading) would be Metaphors We Live By, Lakoff, 1983.

[Fleurs du Mal]

46. Most interested

I'd definitely like to participate in a political book discussion group, especially with DUers!;)

[SerutNorellet]

48. Great idea

I am very interested in this!

[Fleurs du Mal]

50. Recommendation: Freedom Evolves by Daniel Dennet

Considering the "moral values" imperative of the exit polls, the resurgence of the religious right, and the threats to civil liberties I think Freedom Evolves would be a perfect read at this point. If you'd like to find out more about the book check out Amazon's blurbs.

[Tafiti]

52. How about doing a poll with maybe 10 or so books...

...and everyone votes on the one they'd MOST like to read (since you can only vote once on a poll), and the three books with the most votes at the end of a "voting period" would be that quarter's selections.

Just an idea. Let's get this thing started!

[indigo32]

54. I think thats a good idea

lets get reading :)

[crispini]

57. That'll work. Good solution.

And, because the poll is limited, I think we're going to have to limit our choices to those noms that have both nominated and seconded.

So second something on the list if you wanna read it and it hasn't been seconded yet!

[Tangledog]

68. I second Dennett: Freedom Evolves

Historical, philosophical, and scientific "threads"; it will shake up your brain (it's already caused a rumpus in mine, and I haven't even made it out of the 2nd chapter :D).

(on edit; a (n/t) crept into the subject line)

[Fleurs du Mal]

60. Why do it by quarter?

People that show up within a quarter should have a say in what's being read and not have to wait 3 months. Why not poll the first week of the reading month for the next month? It would be more adaptive to current politics, people's changing interests, and would favor the vote of people that remain active. Quarterly allows for people to vote for 3 months worth and drop out of the picture after two weeks.

[crispini]

63. Hm, you have a point there.

Lemme think it through.

Upsides:
- Could add/change books quickly and easily.
- Choosing books month by month allows people to come and go easily.

Downsides:
- Don't allow people to plan in advance, i.e. those who need to get books out of libraries, etc.
- Would have to go through all the rigamarole of choosing every month.

MMmmmm... anything else?

[Tafiti]

64. Yeah, this is a good point.

I would say the biggest stumbling blocks to doing it on a month-by-month basis is getting access to the book so fast. I, for one, am not well-to-do enough to just go out and buy the book at a bookstore the next day. I may have to do a little hunting each time.

Plus, think about the whole point - a discussion group. If there's a book each month, then everyone would have to read the book, then discuss, then leave a space of time for nominating a new one, then voting, then going out and getting the next one. The nice thing about doing it quarterly is being able to get all three books at once, or at least knowing what you need well in advance (say, getting it from Ebay) and leaving all the time for reading and discussing. But, this may be just me, 'cause I'll need all the time I can get for reading, 'cause I'm rather slow at it.

But, like I said, I do see your point. Maybe we can allow for exigencies in the middle of a quarter. Maybe someone could interject with a poll: vote yes or no to introduce a new nomination or stick with the current quarters books.

[Fleurs du Mal]

65. Adjustment

I definitely understand that some people will need more time than others to find a book. A quarter of year set in stone just seems a bit too long and restrictive. As books are read I'm sure people's tastes and ideas for what should be next will change.

Even with quarterly I would think that you would want to add another book to the queue each month. Otherwise at the end of the quarter you spend significantly more time deciding on books. At the same time don't give people a chance to get the first of the three. How would you get around voting on the next book in the queue each month?

What about starting with two books and allow the first two weeks of the month to submit/vote on the last book in the queue? This would ultimately give folks six weeks to find the book, e.g.

Decide on Dec/Jan books now
Vote Feb book first two weeks in Dec (6 week notice)
Vote Mar book first two weeks in Jan (6 week notice)
etc.

The submission and voting process really shouldn't be as intrusive as some seem to think.

[Tafiti]

66. That sounds good to me. I'm not real picky on this matter.

I just want to have time to locate and purchase/borrow the book and get it read in order to participate in discussion. We definitely need some structure here, but it also needs to be clear and well-defined.

By the way, are we still pursuing a DU Group status? I understand that it wouldn't be absolutely necessary, but I think it would be a lot cleaner, streamlined, easier to navigate, more private (not having to sift through irrelevant threads), etc.

Some random thoughts/ideas:

* If we're going to use a poll to decide books (top 3 w/ majority vote), we would need to set a monthly (every 2 months?) date to put it up, as well as an agreed-upon time frame to vote. Just so everyone knows, and there's no confusion. Perhaps an official "announcement" thread or "rules and regulations" threads to set it in stone, so-to-speak.

* Perhaps a discussion "leader" or whoever can start an Official Book Nomination Thread. Make it simple - post title and author, that's it. If someone wants to "second" it, do so by replying to the particular nomination and say "I second that", or something like that. This would make creating a poll much easier and much faster. Perhaps the top 10 nominations (w/ most "seconded") would make the poll.

Let's put this to bed soon so we can start it up for December.

[crispini]

67. Ok, two books at a time sound good.

Agree with the Nom thread, also the annoucments thread.

I'm still 50/50 on the group thing because non-donors can't post in the groups. That said, I think the majority of posters on this thread have stars, and it certainly WOULD make things more easily organized. What do you think? should we go for it?

[Fleurs du Mal]

69. Yes to group

Control the thread creation (this is essential imo). It also gives people an incentive to donate.

[Tafiti]

71. Hmmm, didn't know non-donors couldn't post.

That sucks. However, I sifted through this thread, and there were only 3 people who expressed interest that didn't have donor stars. Plus, this thread has been up for how long now? Over a week? Everyone else who wants to get this going are donors.

Thoughts:

If someone is really interested in joining or wants to participate, wouldn't a DU Group like this be incentive enough for someone to make a donoation - even if only a very small one?

As it is, if any of the 3 non-donors who expressed interest simply cannot donate, I would be willing to donate on behalf of one of them if he/she really wanted to be a part of the group. Besides, it would help the Donor Drive to 1000 on top of it.

For me, the idea of having a separate group, if only for organizational purposes, is too tempting to resist. But that's just my opinion. It's not like I'll be upset if a majority thinks it's a bad idea. Maybe exclusivity isn't necessarily a bad thing in this capacity. After all, it sounds as if it will be a very involved, organized group who would do well to not have unfocused or impertinent postings and threads. Hey, maybe we should do a poll!!!

[crispini]

72. Ok, agree.

We'll do a group. I think for all of the reasons you've said, that's better. I'll go trot off and post in AA.

[Fleurs du Mal]

70. Should be monthly

If you vote bi-monthly you raise the problem of not having enough time to find a book again. For example, bi-monthly would be

Nov vote for Dec and Jan books.
Jan vote for Feb/Mar books (only a few weeks to get the Feb book)

Monthly on the other hand is what I described before. Vote the first two weeks of every month for one book. Have a 1 or 2 week submission /voting period at the beginning of each month. This gives 6 or 7 weeks to find a book, except for the first two. Just put a thread with "MONTH Nominations" for one week, then "MONTH Vote" for another week.

[crispini]

73. Ok, I get it now. Sounds good to me. n/t

[scholarsOrAcademics]

74. anything since Nov. 18,'04. #73?

I did just finish reading a book I learned of from this non-fiction forum. The Worst Hard Time. I have a lot of books to recommend, but they are somewhat specialized and I do have a lot to read.
Why no further comments since #73?








the Worst hard Time

[Fleurs du Mal]

53. A TV chat group...

but no Poli-Sci Book Club yet...the shame of it all.

[Tafiti]

55. HAHA! No doubt! n/t.

[crispini]

56. We could get this thing rolling in December, if most people want.

What do you guys think? We can take noms through Friday, vote the week after that, and start with the first book in December? Yea or Nay?

[Tafiti]

58. Yea.

The recommendations/suggestions in post #38 all sound good to me.

[Fleurs du Mal]

59. Easily doable

[Eurobabe]

62. yea, even though i am moving

<tears hair out>

[abluelady]

75. Don't We Already Have a Book Club? n/t

[Jim__]

76. Yes, but it's not doing too well.

Here's the discussion on the summer book: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=209x3938

[Viva_La_Revolution]

77. It'll pick up again in the winter...

no worries. :hi:

[Jim__]

78. Glad to hear it!

[abluelady]

79. You Must Include Senator Dorgan's New Book

"Take This Job and Ship It." Would be a good book for a busy month, i.e., November, December. It might be in paperback by then, too. It is very informational and an easy, quick read.

[CrispyQ]

80. Dorgan's book is on it's way to my mailbox!

I can't wait to read it. I also got "Hostile Takeover: How Big Money and Corruption Conquered Our Government and How We Take It Back" by David Sirota & "How Would a Patriot Act? Defending American Values from a President Run Amok" by Glenn Greenwald. For some reason I cannot buy just one book. Or two. Or three. ;)

[abluelady]

81. I Didn't Know You Were Allowed to Buy JUST One Book

To me buying a book is like eating one potato chip. It's just not going to happen. LOL

[terrya]

82. I like this idea.

So many good political books out there....I like the idea of a club like this.

[ourbluenation]

83. My recommendation: Omnivores Dilemma by Michael Pollan

"...In this groundbreaking book, one of America’s most fascinating, original, and elegant writers turns his own omnivorous mind to the seemingly straightforward question of what we should have for dinner. To find out, Pollan follows each of the food chains that sustain us—industrial food, organic or alternative food, and food we forage ourselves—from the source to a final meal, and in the process develops a definitive account of the American way of eating. His absorbing narrative takes us from Iowa cornfields to food-science laboratories, from feedlots and fast-food restaurants to organic farms and hunting grounds, always emphasizing our dynamic coevolutionary relationship with the handful of plant and animal species we depend on. Each time Pollan sits down to a meal, he deploys his unique blend of personal and investigative journalism to trace the origins of everything consumed, revealing what we unwittingly ingest and explaining how our taste for particular foods and flavors reflects our evolutionary inheritance.


The surprising answers Pollan offers to the simple question posed by this book have profound political, economic, psychological, and even moral implications for all of us. Beautifully written and thrillingly argued, The Omnivore’s Dilemma promises to change the way we think about the politics and pleasure of eating. For anyone who reads it, dinner will never again look, or taste, quite the same."

*************
I just bought it on a recent trip after hearing a Thom Hartman interview the author on AAR, but, I'll put it down and wait if it's one of the books of the month.

[CrispyQ]

84. There is no current book club selection.

Book club sort of fizzled out. Lot's of participation in the threads to nominated & select book titles, but not much activity in the actual book discussion. There are few exceptions, a few books that generated great discussion, but the last few book club discussions were sadly lacking.

"Omnivores Dilemma" sounds interesting. I'll check my library for it.
Thom Hartman is vegetarian. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[LSK]

85. didnt they used to do that here?

I'd love to participate, but I read too slowly too read one book a month.

[jessiebackster]

86. Books -has anybody heard of Jason Leopold?

Books -has anybody heard of Jason Leopold? he has a book (memoir) called "News Junkie"... he supposedly 'broke' the ENRON scandal...

[jennyvicsrocks]

87. news junkie

yeah, the book(News Junkie) is pretty interesting. Supposedly he worked for Epic Records and stole 100k worth of promo cds to feed his nasty cocaine habit. As far as breaking the Enron debacle , not sure if he was the sole provider of that opprobium. The book lives up to it's hype. Probably would make a great movie - Tom Cruise are you listening????

[izzie]

88. Sounds nice if I do not have to buy new ones.

I am retired and just had to give up buying books. It was like a sickness with me. I would have to get it at library or most of them.

[pstans]

89. If a book club is started I think you need to get Skinner and Co.'s support

See if they can put up a link on the main page when the discussion starts or even a little picture thing that can drive more people to the discussion.