The Elephant in the Room: Evangelicals, Libertarians and the Battle to Con

[RamboLiberal]

Remember - Know the Enemy.

From Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Elephant-Room-Evangelicals-Libertarians-Republican/dp/0471793329/sr=8-1/qid=1160414845/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-9798098-1016746?ie=UTF8&s=books

Review
"Sager picks up where Bruce Bartlett left off with Impostor. The Elephant in the Roomtells us how libertarians and the Christian conservatives are at swords' point over Bush's 'big government conservatism.' Anyone who want to understand this important debate should get a copy of Sager's book."--John B. Judis, coauthor of The Emerging Democratic Majority

"Ryan Sager offers an eloquent, elegant argument that the GOP has lost its way--an argument that even those of us who disagree with many of his criticisms and object passionately to many of his characterizations must take with the utmost seriousness."--John Podhoretz, author of Can She Be Stopped?

"An insightful and eminently readable account of the current conservative crackup. Anyone who wants to understand American politics today needs to read Sager's chronicle of the ongoing civil war in the conservative ranks."--Paul Begala, co-author of Take it Back

"This funny, sobering, smart book reminds Republicans that having beliefs isn't good enough. You have to act on them. Winning isn't enough; you have to win with a purpose in mind. Ryan Sager sounds a real call to arms. The party would be wise to hear it."--Peggy Noonan, columnist, Wall Street Journal

"Two feisty American factions are at daggers drawn. No, the fight is not conservatives versus liberals. Rather, it is libertarian conservatives versus "social issues" conservatives. In this illuminating examination of the changing ideological geography of American politics, Ryan Sager suggests that the conservatives must choose between Southern and Western flavors of conservatism. He prefers the latter."--George F. Will, syndicated columnist

[Ganja Ninja]

1. "the GOP has lost its way"

That's just bullshit. The GOP is a scam and always has been. It's a party of, by and for the rich. They've managed to string together a few groups of morons by telling them what they want to hear. They really only stand for one thing, maximizing profits and minimizing taxes for corporations and the rich at the expense of everyone else. Everything else they say they stand for is just lip service. That's the GOP way and always has been.

[DirtyJersey]

3. I take issue with your post

I was a GOP member for many years and I know for a fact that there were many good people in the party, and there are still a few left today. Class warfare rhetoric like yours is precisely what keeps so many people in the GOP despite their dumbass posturing to religious right groups and dangerous neocon foreign policy. To give you a brief lesson from Economics 101, taxing corporations doesn't do anything other than pass the cost onto the consumer. A tax causes an increase in the company's total costs, and you can bet your ass they're not going to just take that extra cost on the chin. They're going to raise revenue by charging more. This makes a corporate tax, in essence, a sales tax - a regressive tax that disproportionately affects the poor.

[Ganja Ninja]

4. Sorry but I disagree and screw the economics 101.

Corporations are no different than any other entity in a society. If you agree with the idea that taxing corporations hurts the economy then why can't you apply the same reasoning to everyone you tax? Think about it, if you only tax individuals then they have less money to spend. They can't purchase as much, they need higher wages to make ends meet and it hurts the economy. It's the same for everybody. If you leave corporations out of tax base then you have to make up for it somewhere and that somewhere is you and me.

It's not that I disagree with the concept that taxing corporations will only pass on the tax to the consumer. I just disagree with the assumption that that's a bad thing. I think you right wingers have got to start questioning some of the concepts of the GOP's economics 101.

[DirtyJersey]

5. Read and learn

Taxes do not necessarily hurt the economy, provided the government spends the money wisely. What I said was that taxing corporations actually ends up hurting the poor. You agreed with my point that taxing corporations only passes the tax onto the consumer. The biggest corporations are those that sell good and services that are most commonly used. A raise in the costs of these items raises the cost of living for all. Since the basic costs of living (excluding luxuries) affects everybody equally, this means the poorest are hardest hit as it is harder for them to make up the difference. We saw this recently when gas prices spiked - those who are middle to upper class complained about the prices, but in the end just paid them and went about their business. The poor, especially the rural poor who don't have public transportation as an option, were hit the hardest by this. I personally think that the government should rely on personal income taxes for revenue, a much fairer system as it based on how much people make. Also, for the record, I am by no means a right winger, and I'm certainly against the GOP economics of "trade deficits are good".

[DirtyJersey]

2. Close to home

This book really strikes a nerve with me as I used to be a small government libertarian Republican. I quit the GOP in light of the Iraq War, the Patriot Act, increasing deficits, the increasing influence of the Religious Right on the GOP, Tom Delay, etc. The Federal Marriage Amendment, Terri Schiavo, and further and further mistakes in foreign policy have helped convince me that I made the right move. Also, despite my libertarian tendencies, I have always been pro-environment, since I view destroying nature as infringing upon the rights of others. I still disagree with the Democrats on many economic issues, but I'm willing to put these differences aside in light of the rapidly destructive path the modern GOP has taken us on.