Hi -- need help finding info on a newly-released (I think) book:

[gateley]

My facts may be fuzzy, but here's the gist:

It's by a Stanford professor who presents that depending on circumstances, we all have the capacity to behave like those troops who tortured the prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

It bums me out even thinking about, but it's probably something I need to know so I don't find myself filled with so much hate and a desire for revenge when I hear of such things.

Thanks in advance.


This is my first time here and I've already ordered 3 of the recommended books -- thanks for being here!

[rateyes]

1. Not aware of the book...but, there has been a lot of research

into that kind of thing. People will do, as part of a group, things they would never do as individuals. My Lai, and Lt. Calley and his cohorts come to mind.

People use others in the crowd to justify evil. Mob mentality.

[classof56]

2. Google The Stanford Prison Experiment

for the full story. You'll be amazed, appalled and dismayed. I certainly was!

Tired Old Cynic

[gateley]

3. Do you believe that you, too, could get sucked into to that type of behavior?

What a frightening thought, but I've always felt that given the right circumstances if ANY human being is capable of it, then I probably am too.

Anyway, I googled the Stanford Prison Experiment and don't have enough guts to read it yet, but have bookmarked it.

Through the site I found the Professor's name (Phillip Zimbardo) and his site discusses this book which is "The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil", so thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

OT but on the Tired Old Cynic front: I was just returning home from the store and remembering that in High School my Driver's Ed teacher told us at intersections always assume there was somebody coming at you at 50 mph until you knew for sure they weren't and how I now assume I'm being lied to until it's proven I'm not. Nice state of affairs, huh?

Thanks again!

[Kiouni]

5. I share the same feelings

if someone else can do it then so can I. I was reading a lot of Buddhist books at the time I read The Lucifer Effect and I drew some correlations between the two.

The book gives some pretty compelling evidence that the abuse at the Abu Ghrib prison was not the fault of the soldiers but the fault of the military leaders that set up the situation.

These Soldiers had to sleep in the same Jail work round the clock in a 100 degree heat where human excrement had no where to go and no running water. They were ordered to stay there and aid a random barrage of interrogators not affiliated with the military in gaining useless out dated information.

They started to hate the prisoners because if it weren't for them they wouldn't be there. Kind of makes sense why you might take a few swings and it's not like you can take the weekend off and go blow some steam off at the bar.

[classof56]

7. You've asked the question I have dreaded being asked.

Could I? Would I get sucked into that type of behavior? It's painful to think about and has plagued me since I first started hearing about what guards/etc. did to those in the concentration and POW camps during WWII. I was just a kid, but the impression was lasting and of course the more I heard, the more disturbed I became. And now your question: Could I? Would I treat other human beings that way if my own survival was dependent on it? I often think of the phrase Doestevski used in one of his books (think I'm recalling it right), "The intoxication of cruelty." Maybe there's an incredible rush that comes with mistreating others. Maybe it's a power trip. I should try to once again work my way through Zimbardo's book to see what he concluded (couldn't stomach it the first time).

I do thank you for asking me this question and making me ponder it in a way I have not wanted to. My answer is, I do not believe, at this time of my life, that I could be sucked into torturing and abusing other human beings. I've heard that there were doctors who refused to participate in the concentration camp "medical experiments", doubtless at the peril of their own lives. I think I'd opt for that route. At my age, while on balance I have much to live for, if it comes down to the government or whoever's in charge demanding that I engage in such horrors, I would refuse and accept the consequences. There are worse things than death; the ability to live with oneself is, IMHO, one of them. Having said this, I fervently hope and pray I am never in the position of having to make such an awful choice. If I were...well, as you pointed out, if any human being is capable of it, I could be too. God, I hate this!!

I have always driven defensively, rarely taking for granted that others on the road are going to do what they're supposed to, and I rarely take it for granted that those in charge mean what they're telling us. So guess I could say I share your cynicism (thus my sig line) and it's a sad state of affairs indeed. Much as I want to make the world better, I'm running out of ways to make that happen. Glad for you and all on DU who share the vision of a better tomorrow. This is an awfully long post. Hope you don't mind.

Take care and blessings.

TOC

[Kiouni]

4. Lucifer Effect by Zimbardo

http://www.lucifereffect.com/

Great Book. I highly recommend it.

[CGowen]

6. There was a movie made in 2001, called "The Experiment" based on this

http://imdb.com/title/tt0250258/