1960--LBJ vs. JFK vs. Nixon: The Epic Campaign That Forged Three Presidencies

[Captain Hilts]

By David Pietrusza.

This book doesn't have much that's new, but, it underlines to me how none of these folks should have been president. JFK was unhealthy and too brash and reckless. It's interesting to see how the press completely bought into his campaign and looked out for him. LBJ and Nixon had no such luck. Neither did the US.

JFK was able to inspire loyalty in people from his brother to people who never met him in a way that LBJ and Nixon were never able to do.

For the folks here on DU it's an important read because it truly emphasizes that JFK did not run as a liberal at all. If folks wonder why Obama took a hard right after getting the nomination it is that, like JFK - and Bill Clinton - he'll say whatever he has to say to get elected. That's how the game is played. Perhaps if Al Gore had done something similar, he might have won - at least his own state. In other words, nice guys rarely finish first in these contests.

I think inadequate attention is paid to how JFK's father alienated a lot of folks in Washington. He was one of the more vile human beings this country has produced.

I was very glad to see comments quoted suggesting that if circumstances were slightly different, Eunice Kennedy would have been a more primary player in politics. She's really the last of the women that clearly had what it takes to be president, but social conventions kept her boxed out of the game. That's too bad.

This book provides some interesting comparisons to the current campaign.

The book makes some assumptions on JFK and Vietnam that the recent release of papers do not verify at all. JFK seems to have been more dove-ish on Vietnam than expected.

PS. Eleanor Roosevelt wasn't "anti-Catholic." She was anti-Vatican. Joseph Lash was not Eleanor Roosevelt's lover. I've no idea why he put that in this book. THIS guy was - no contest here:

[EPIC1934]

1. BEWARE OF GENERALIZING ABOUT JFK FROM 1960 ELECTION

Sounds like yet another deeply misleading book about JFK. We should not be surprised that many of these are published by those on the "left" ( See history of Encounter Magazine the left-liberal magazine aimed at gatekeeping the left entirely published by the CIA)


WHAT AM I ACTUALLY SAYING ABOUT JFK?

1) Chomsky and Cockburn are essentially CORRECT in arguing that JFK got to power as a Cold Warrior, with some signs of change-- for example in the context of 1960 he met with MLK and NIxon refused to. You can be as cynical as you want, until you study the context of that action in 1960 with the Dems still controlling the Solid SOuth.

2.) Even before becoming president, Kennedy did show some NOT RADICAL BUT STILL SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT POSITIONS REGUARDING ANTI-COLONIAL STRUGGLES IN AFRICA AND SOUTHEAST ASIA AS COMPARED WITH OTHERS IN SENATE AND ELITE US OPINION.

3) KENNEDY DISAGREED STRONGLY OVER LAOS AND PREVENTED A US LAND WAR THERE IN 1961 OVER VERY STRONG OPPOSITION FORM THE JCS AND CIA AND MUCH OF THE CORPORATE MEDIA, MOST SIGNIFICANTLY LUCES'S TIME-LIFE.

4) KENNEDY BEGAN TO HAVE A NUMBER OF VERY SERIOUS DIFFERENCES WITH THE CIA OVER AUTONOMY FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF HIS ADMINISRATION WHICH BECAME OVERT AND DANGEROUS DURING THE BAY OF PIGS INVASION-- WHICH WAS PLANNED BEFORE HE CAME INTO OFFICE.

5) KENNEDY IT IS TRUE-- WAS VERY STRONGLY ANTI-CASTRO AND WAS SEEKING CASTRO'S REMOVAL FROM POWER IN THE BEGINNING OF HIS TERM. CAN YOU THINK OF ANYONE WHO COULD HAVE BEEN ELECTED PRESIDENT AT THAT TIME AND WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN? (keep in mind here Monroe doc, history of US fo.po. etc.)

6) KENEDY WAS GOING TO PULL OUT OF VIETNAM. THIS IS NO LONGER EVEN DEBATEABLE SAVE AMONG NEWSWEEK, THE NEW YORK TIMES AND NOAM CHOMSKY!

7) KENNEDY MANAGED TO STAVE OFF A FULL US GROUND WAR IN VIETNAM IN 1961-62. YES THIS INVOLVED SOME SERIOUS COMPROMISES, BUT WE ONLY HEAR ABOUT THE COMPROMISES FROM GURU CHOMSKY AND NOT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY.

8) JFK BEGAN VERY SERIOUS AND CONCRETE MOVES TOWARDS DETANTE WITH THE USSR IN 1963, AS IS MOST PROFOUNDLY EVIDENT IN HIS JUNE 10TH 1963 SPEECH AT AMERICAN UNIVERSITY WHICH IS NEVER MENTIONED BY CHOMSKY AND HIS FELLOW KENNEDY BASHERS AT HIS BELOVED NYT.

9) KENNEDY RESISTED THE MOST INTENSE PRESSURE IMAGINABLE -- FROM THE PERMANENT MILITARY AND INTELLIGENCE BUROCRACY THAT HAD BEGAN TO OSSIFY AND BECOME THE REAL INSTRUMENT OF POWER IN THE US AFTER ITS BIRTH ONLY 13 YEARS BEFORE-- DURING THE CUBAN MISSILE CRISIS. THERE WAS OVERWHELMING AND VIRUTALLY UNANIMOUS PRESSURE FROM CIA AND JCS TO CARRY OUT AN INVASION THAT WOULD HAVE HAD AN EXTREMELY HIGH PROBABILITY OF TRIGGERING WORLD WAR III.

10) KENNEDY HAD SHOWN THAT HE WAS NOT AFRAID TO CHALLENGE US CORPORATE ELITES BY GOING DIRECTLY TO THE AIRWAVES AND CRITICIZING CORPORATE GREED IN A WAY THAT I CHALLENGE YOU TO FIND A SIMILAR EXAMPLE SINCE. I AM HERE REFERrING TO THE STEEL CRISIS OF 1962.

11) KENNEDY WAS THE ONLY PRESIDENT SINCE WORLD WAR TWO THAT HAS EVER REFUSED TO RECOGNIZE A RIGHT WING COUP D'ETAT IN LATIN AMERICA. UNPRECEDENTED. WAS HE CHE? NO, BUT TO ROCKEFELLER AND WALL STREET HE WAS A VERY VERY REAL AND SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE IN COMPARISON TO THE CORPORATE MAINSTEAM ON LATIN AMERICAN AND ALSO IN COMPARISION WITH
PREVIOUS US FOREIGN POLICY TOWARD THE REGION.

12) KENNEDY WAS ALLY OF SUKARNO IN INDONESIA EVEN AT A TIME WHEN THE CIA WAS HAD ALREADY BEGUN ITS SUBVERSION OF THAT COUNTRY WHICH CULMINATED IN THE GENOCIDE OF 1965 UNDER PRESIDENT JOHNSON. KENNEDY WAS ACTUALLY PLANNING A STATE VISIT TO SUKARNO IN 1963-- GURU CHOMSKY SOMEHOW MANAGES TO FORGET THIS AS HE DOES RFK S COMMENTS -- VIRUTALLY ALONE AMONG ALL US POLS--DURING THAT GENOCIDE.

13) KENNEDY TOOK ACTIVE STEPS TO SUPPORT THE POPULARLY ELECTED PRESIDENT OF BRAZIL GOULART IN 1963. EVEN AS HE DID THIS THE CIA WAS COORDINATING THE COUP THAT WOUL HAPPEN SHORTLY AFTER HIS DEATH.
Please see the book endorsed by Daniel Ellsberg, JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE: WHY HE DIED AND WHY IT MATTERED. BY JAMES W. DOUGLASS

[Captain Hilts]

2. Makes you wonder why so many Obama supporters want to draw the analogy, doesn't it? nt

[rainydaywomyn69]

3. On PBS, "The American Experience" is have the next part of an LBJ series

That should be very good--covers the Viet Nam escalation.

[Captain Hilts]

4. LBJ is amazing. If you go on the C-Span website you can...

go to a page for the LBJ Oval Office tapes. You can click on whichever you want.

You realize how good he really was at getting what he wanted out of people.