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freeplessinseattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 03:24 AM
Original message
"Don't Think of an Elephant" looks fascinating, anyone read it?
psychological theorizing about rethugs whacky ideas, a section I read that explained the "parenting" styles that define the difference between the parties: (long, but this excerpt seems to explain the crux of why they do what they do, and helps me understand why their primary motivator is self-interest and explain to others how that applies to everything, which tickles my psych background and will maybe help me help future clients are recovering rethugs) I didn't see it mentioned in this section, but I couldn't help but think of the "good Christians" who don't "sin" and live in a Christian-like way, kept in line by both fear of punishment (present-life misfortune, and afterlife Hell) and reward for good behavior (prayers answered, and a heavenly afterlife). How can their behavior really be considered righteous then if they are really operating out of self-interest, deep down?

from the book:

"The question I asked myself was this: What do the conservatives' positions on issues have to do with each other? If you are a conservative, what does your position on abortion have to do with your position on taxation? What does that have to do with your position on the environment? Or foreign policy? How do these positions fit together? What does being against gun control have to do with being for tort reform? What makes sense of the linkage? I could not figure it out. I said to myself, These are strange people. Their collection of positions makes no sense. But then an embarrassing thought occurred to me. I have exactly the opposite position on every issue. What do my positions have to do with one another? And I could not figure that out either.

That was extremely embarrassing for someone who does cognitive science and linguistics.

Eventually the answer came. And it came from a very unexpected place. It came from the study of family values. I had asked myself why conservatives were talking so much about family values. And why did certain values count as "family values" while others did not? Why would anyone in a presidential campaign, in congressional campaigns, and so on, when the future of the world was being threatened by nuclear proliferation and global warming, constantly talk about family values?

At this point I remembered a paper that one of my students had written some years back that showed that we all have a metaphor for the nation as a family. We have Founding Fathers. The Daughters of the American Revolution. We "send our sons" to war. This is a natural metaphor because we usually understand large social groups, like nations, in terms of small ones, like families or communities.

Given the existence of the metaphor linking the nation to the family, I asked the next question: If there are two different understandings of the nation, do they come from two different understandings of family?

I worked backward. I took the various positions on the conservative side and on the progressive side and I said, "Let's put them through the metaphor from the opposite direction and see what comes out." I put in the two different views of the nation, and out popped two different models of the family: a strict father family and a nurturant parent family. You know which is which. Now, when I first did this — and I'll tell you about the details in a minute — I was asked to give a talk at a linguistics convention. I decided I would talk about this discovery. In the audience were two members of the Christian Coalition who were linguists and good friends of mine. Excellent linguists. And very, very good people. Very nice people. People I liked a lot. They took me aside at the party afterward and said, "Well, this strict father model of the family, it's close, but not quite right. We'll help you get the details right. However, you should know all this. Have you read Dobson?"

I said, "Who?"

They said, "James Dobson."

I said, "Who?"

They said, "You're kidding. He's on three thousand radio stations."

I said, "Well, I don't think he's on NPR. I haven't heard of him."

They said, "Well, you live in Berkeley."

"Where would I . . . does he write stuff?"

"Oh," they said, "oh yes. He has sold millions of books. His classic is Dare to Discipline."

My friends were right. I followed their directions to my local Christian bookstore, and there I found it all laid out: the strict father model in all its details. Dobson not only has a 100-to-200- million-dollar-a-year operation, but he also has his own ZIP code, so many people are writing to order his books and pamphlets. He is teaching people how to use the strict father model to raise their kids, and he understands its connection to rightwing politics.

The strict father model begins with a set of assumptions:

The world is a dangerous place, and it always will be, because there is evil out there in the world. The world is also difficult because it is competitive. There will always be winners and losers. There is an absolute right and an absolute wrong. Children are born bad, in the sense that they just want to do what feels good, not what is right. Therefore, they have to be made good. What is needed in this kind of a world is a strong, strict father who can:

Protect the family in the dangerous world,
Support the family in the difficult world, and
Teach his children right from wrong.

What is required of the child is obedience, because the strict father is a moral authority who knows right from wrong. It is further assumed that the only way to teach kids obedience — that is, right from wrong — is through punishment, painful punishment, when they do wrong. This includes hitting them, and some authors on conservative child rearing recommend sticks, belts, and wooden paddles on the bare bottom. Some authors suggest this start at birth, but Dobson is more liberal. "There is no excuse for spanking babies younger than fifteen or eighteen months of age." The rationale behind physical punishment is this: When children do something wrong, if they are physically disciplined they learn not to do it again. That means that they will develop internal discipline to keep themselves from doing wrong, so that in the future they will be obedient and act morally. Without such punishment, the world will go to hell. There will be no morality.

Such internal discipline has a secondary effect. It is what is required for success in the difficult, competitive world. That is, if people are disciplined and pursue their self-interest in this land of opportunity, they will become prosperous and self-reliant. Thus, the strict father model links morality with prosperity. The same discipline you need to be moral is what allows you to prosper. The link is the pursuit of self-interest....

Now let me talk a bit about how progressives understand their morality and what their moral system is. It too comes out of a family model, what I call the nurturant parent model. The strict father worldview is so named because according to its own beliefs, the father is the head of the family. The nurturant parent worldview is gender neutral.

Both parents are equally responsible for raising the children. The assumption is that children are born good and can be made better. The world can be made a better place, and our job is to work on that. The parents' job is to nurture their children and to raise their children to be nurturers of others.

What does nurturance mean? It means two things: empathy and responsibility. If you have a child, you have to know what every cry means. You have to know when the child is hungry, when he needs a diaper change, when he is having nightmares. And you have a responsibility — you have to take care of this child. Since you cannot take care of someone else if you are not taking care of yourself, you have to take care of yourself enough to be able to take care of the child. All this is not easy. Anyone who has ever raised a child knows that this is hard. You have to be strong. You have to work hard at it. You have to be very competent. You have to know a lot. In addition, all sorts of other values immediately follow from empathy and responsibility. Think about it.

First, if you empathize with your child, you will provide protection. This comes into politics in many ways. What do you protect your child from? Crime and drugs, certainly. You also protect your child from cars without seat belts, from smoking, from poisonous additives in food. So progressive politics focuses on environmental protection, worker protection, consumer protection, and protection from disease. These are the things that progressives want the government to protect their citizens from. But there are also terrorist attacks, which liberals and progressives have not been very good at talking about in terms of protection. Protection is part of the progressive moral system, but it has not been elaborated on enough. And on September 11, progressives did not have a whole lot to say. That was unfortunate, because nurturant parents and progressives do care about protection. Protection is important. It is part of our moral system.

Second, if you empathize with your child, you want your child to be fulfilled in life, to be a happy person. And if you are an unhappy, unfulfilled person yourself, you are not going to want other people to be happier than you are. The Dalai Lama teaches us that. Therefore it is your moral responsibility to be a happy, fulfilled person. Your moral responsibility. Further, it is your moral responsibility to teach your child to be a happy, fulfilled person who wants others to be happy and fulfilled. That is part of what nurturing family life is about. It is a common precondition for caring about others.

There are still other nurturant values.




If you want your child to be fulfilled in life, the child has to be free enough to do that. Therefore freedom is a value.
You do not have very much freedom if there is no opportunity or prosperity. Therefore opportunity and prosperity are progressive values.
If you really care about your child, you want your child to be treated fairly by you and by others. Therefore fairness is a value.
If you are connecting with your child and you empathize with that child, you have to have open, two-way communication. Honest communication. That becomes a value.
You live in a community, and that the community will affect how your child grows up. Therefore community-building, service to the community, and cooperation in a community become values.
To have cooperation, you must have trust, and to have trust you must have honesty and open two-way communication. Trust, honesty, and open communication are fundamental progressive values – in a community as in a family. These are the nurturant values – and they are the progressive values. As progressives, you all have them. You know you have them. You recognize them.



Every progressive political program is based on one or more of these values. That is what it means to be a progressive. There are several types of progressives. How many types? I am asking as a cognitive scientist, not as a sociologist or a political scientist. From the point of view of a cognitive scientist, who looks at modes of thought, there are six basic types of progressives, each with a distinct mode of thought. They share all the progressive values, but are distinguished by some differences:

1. Socioeconomic progressives think that everything is a matter of money and class and that all solutions are ultimately economic and social class solutions.

2. Identity politics progressives say it is time for their oppressed group to get its share now.

3. Environmentalists think in terms of sustainability of the earth, the sacredness of the earth and the protection of native peoples.

4. Civil liberties progressives want to maintain freedoms against threats to freedom.

5. Spiritual progressives have a nurturant form of religion or spirituality, their spiritual experience has to do with their connection to other people and the world, and their spiritual practice has to do with service to other people and to their community. Spiritual progressives span the full range from Catholics and Protestants to Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Goddess worshippers, and pagan members of Wicca.

6. Anti-authoritarians say there are all sorts of illegitimate forms of authority out there and we have to fight them, whether they are big corporations or anyone else.

All six types are examples of nurturant parent morality. The problem is that many of the people who have one of these modes of thought do not recognize that theirs is just one special case of something more general, and do not see the unity in all the types of progressives. They often think that theirs is the only way to be a true progressive. That is sad. It keeps people who share progressive values from coming together. We have to get past that harmful idea. The other side did.


George Lakoff is the author of the forthcoming 'Don't Think of an Elephant: Know Your Values and Frame the Debate' (Chelsea Green). He is Professor of Linguistics at the University of California at Berkeley and a Senior










http://www.alternet.org/story/19811/
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 03:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. Spanking just teaches that it's O.K. for big people to hit little people.
That's always been my belief. I've never hit my son and we have a great relationship. He talks to me, yet he works hard not to get on my "bad side"...not bad for an almost-14-year-old.
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laheina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. The book club at
the "MyDD" blog is going to be reading this book in their book club -- and also "What's the Matter with Kansas".

I would have gotten you the link, but I'm lazy, and they rearranged the DU site directory. It's in there under blogs. :P
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. It's a most excellent book.
And we're going to be reading it (maybe) in OUR very own book club... that we're working on developing now... see other thread in this forum! come over and vote for us to read it! :)
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. A small correction
Edited on Wed Nov-17-04 02:53 PM by sangh0
I haven't read this book yet, but I'm currently reading one of Lakoff's earlier books "Political Metaphors - How Conservatives and Liberals Think" which also discusses the Strict Father and Nurturing Family metaphors.

In that book, Lakoff says that it's not so much a person's "parenting style" that determines their political outlook, but the mental "models" people use when they think about politics, government, and the nation, and the metaphors that tend to be used by those who use those mental models. The "Strict Daddy" and "Nurturing Family" do not address parenting styles. It addresses the metaphors and morals a person brings to the table.

As I alluded to in the earlier paragraph, these models come with a set of metaphors which help us think about the issues. The metaphors that Lakoff lists for BOTH of the two mental models allow for punishment, retribution, revenge and discipline, but because of the different natures of the two models, they prioritize and make use of these metaphors in differing ways. IOW, the idea of how punishment works is a part of both the liberal and the conservative model, but as you have indicated, the Strict Father model puts a greater emphasis on punishment and revenge.
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DebJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-04 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. good pick up here... Elephant discusses Framing, and how
the same person can use the Daddy frame at home, the Nurturer at work, or vice versa. Almost everyone has a 'frame' of BOTH styles, but their brains are trained to use a different frame for different circumstances.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. I just started it, what completely freaked me out was Dobson
dissing on do-gooders. Yep. Man of god. Saying do-gooders just get in the way of what is important which is making money. (Self-promotion or something, self actualization? But really, it was about clawing your way to the top monetarily, socially and politically.)

We have much work to do if Christians now believe that doing good is a bad thing.

Talk about Orwellian.
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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Faith vs. Works
Protestant Fundies overwhelmingly believe that only faith will save you not works. I found this very odd at first because I come out of the Roman Catholic tradition which values the opposite (social gospel). I think mainline Protestants come down somewhere in the middle. I have read the New Testament and find it perfectly contradictory on this topic.

Its not Orwellian at all. But I think its very true that this "faith is more important than works" mentality is spreading. Dobson is exploiting America's traditional esteem for self-reliance and twisting it for political ends...



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Tafiti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. As a former fundamentalist, I can say with 100% certainty...
...that you are correct. Far from being an isolated example issue-wise, Christians of this persuasion are constantly being fed mixed messages. On the one hand, these ministers hammer home the point that it doesn't matter if you're the most "moral" person in the world, or how many good things you do for people, if you don't accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior (read: if you don't subscribe to our very particular dogmatic interpretations), you will not enter the Kingdom of God. They make sure the congregation never forgets that it is their faith that they need to work on, not their works. In other words, though never expressed explicitly, it's OK if you don't help people, as long as your relationship with God is in the right place - that's the single most important thing. Then on the other hand, the emphasis that Jesus himself puts on "social gospel" is too much to ignore. And, indeed, they recognize the fact that it's good to "minister" to other people, by helping those in need. However, in their fervent effort to spread the "good news", these seemingly well-intentioned attempts to help people in need often become masks for proselytization (even if only subconsciously).
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DebJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-04 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. and then there is the almost 'anti-works' Christian stance that
we are saved by the Grace of God (ie, His immutable choice), and that nothing we actually do or choose really matters, not your choices of action, not your choices of soul. Paralyzation teaching.
Uck!
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. Come vote for this ....
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Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
9. Back when I was a kid living in a small farming community in ND...
I was appalled by how many of my peers were basically mindless sheep, unquestioningly following instructions from the closest authority figure...parent, teacher, minister, neighborhood bully...and believing everything they saw on tv or read in a magazine. I believed then (& now) that this was due largely to the extreme high regard most parents & teachers give to compliance, passivity, conformity & obedience. A docile, submissive, quiet child is seen by many as a "good" child and a tribute to "good" parenting, while a talkative, inquisitive, stubborn, nonconforming child is seen as "bad," and the result of "bad" parenting. How can we expect a child who is praised for being passive, obedient & not questioning authority & punished for being "strong willed" to grow up to have the backbone, courage & temperament to question big corporations, the media, government, religious leaders, etc?
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Califooyah Operative Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
10. Im reading it now. I wish everybody would.
for all the talk about progressive values and this and that. Everyone on DU should read this book.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. It's our book club choice for January.
Encourage everyone to ask for it for Christmas and then come by and discuss it! :D
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. Check out the "Frame the Debate" group here at DU.
If you liked the book, you will love putting it to work!
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Finding Rawls Donating Member (234 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
15. Is this book available at most Borders/Barnes and Noble? n/t
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DebJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I got it at Borders in paperback for just $10. Only 110 pages or so
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