Pat Robertson re-writes the Bible

[housewolf]

C-Span broadcast a speech Pat Robertson gave at the National Press Club today. On of the questions asked of him was how did he reconcile the commandment to not kill with war actions.

He said that "the Bible says you shall not murder" and that actions taken in a war situation were exempt (not his exact word but close).

Now, I've been around on this country for as long as Pat Robertson has, and I have heard and read the 10 Commandments thousands of times, including memorizing them. NEVER, ever, ever have I heard of a commandment to "not murder." The Bible I have at home, and what I have heard thousands of time before in my life, is "Thou shalt not kill."

Where the hell does Pat Robertson get off re-writing the 10 Commandments???

I know many people like to interprest biblical phrases to suit their agenda, but this goes beyond interpretation.

Okay, I admit it - I am outraged by the audacity of this man.

[roguevalley]

1. sometimes they jack around the translation of the words.

[whistle]

2. Well, it's about time that Robertson goes on record with his...

...heresies

[Clark2008]

3. Hmmm. Pat needs to take some theology classes, it seems.

The verse from the Hebrew is translated from "thou shall not murder," is correct. But you can kill in self-defense (of you or your children). However, since no Iraqi flew planes into our buildings, the self-defense is gone; therefore, the war is wrong.
And Pat also needs to concern himself with what Jesus did, since Pat alleges he is a Christian.
Jesus got RID of the Ten Commandments and replaced them with: Love God and Love Your Neighbor. Then He proceeded to give the Sermon on the Mount, which Pat, the billionaire diamond miner, should be aware says that the meek and the poor are the beneficiaries of God's will.

[Tux]

13. That is why

OT needs to be removed from the Bible and let the Jews repair their abused book. Christians can then abuse the NT all day long.

[jody]

14. Why stop at the OT? Limit Christianity to the red letter statements

attributed to Jesus in Matthew, Mark, and Luke.

Most modern day Christians would find it very difficult to follow those teachings. The Golden Rule that Christ taught has been replaced by the Rule of Gold of the Antichrists.

[Gman]

4. Robertson still believes the Bible charges white slave owners

with caring for Black slaves and converting them to their brand of "christianity".

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. I've read many times that the more accurate translation from Hebrew

really is "murder" rather than "kill." But I don't know Hebrew, so I can't personally vouch for the translation.

[Clark2008]

6. My ex husband was Arabic and spoke Hebrew

You haven't LIVED until you've heard the Bible in Hebrew. It's really quite beautiful.

[Skip Intro]

7. what a fraud

just like bush the butcher

[jody]

8. The best writings to start with on murder vs war are

St. Thomas Aquinas' The Summa Theologica

[Clark2008]

9. Oh, thank you. I haven't read this in a long, long time.

Thank you for pointing it to me on the web! :hug:

[starroute]

10. It's supposedly a fine technical point

I Googled on this the last time the question came up and found a site which discussed it in detail. As I recall, there is one word in Hebrew which refers to killing of any kind (such as killing animals for food) and another word which refers only to killing other people in ways that are explicitly against the law and which is generally translated as "murder." That's the word used in the commandment.

However, the site also pointed out that there's at least one case in the Bible where the "murder" word is used to refer to killing someone who is a criminal renegade and therefore legally considered fair game, so there's clearly an ambiguity there.

I personally also have trouble believing that the Bible would present a set of commandments which are assumed to be prior to all human laws but one of which works out to "Thou shalt not kill unless your local legal codes say it's okay, and then anything goes." Nazi laws couldn't make genocide acceptable, and US laws can't make invading other countries and killing their civilian population acceptable either.


On edit: I remembered I'd saved the link and a quote from it:

http://www.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Shokel/001102_ThouShaltNotMurder.html

Indeed, "kill" in English is an all-encompassing verb that covers the taking of life in all forms and for all classes of victims. That kind of generalization is expressed in Hebrew through the verb "harag." However, the verb that appears in the Torah's prohibition is a completely different one, "ratsah" which, it would seem, should be rendered "murder." This root refers only to criminal acts of killing.

<snip>

The fact remains, however, that even the Jewish translators were not unanimous in maintaining a consistent distinctions between the various Hebrew roots.

Don Isaac Abravanel and others noted that ratsah is employed in Numbers 35:27-30 both when dealing with an authorized case of blood vengeance, and with capital punishment -- neither of which falls under the legal category of murder.

In fact, some distinguished Jewish philosophers believed that "thou shalt not kill" is a perfectly accurate rendering of the sixth commandment. Maimonides, for example, wrote that all cases of killing human beings involve violations of the command, even if the violation happens to be overridden by other mitigating factors. It has been suggested that this tradition underlies the virtual elimination of capital punishment in Rabbinic law.

And if Maimonides believed that, who am I to argue? :shrug:

[housewolf]

11. Good information

Thanks for making the effort to post that, it's quite interesting.

[GOPBasher]

12. Even if it only condemns murder, it still doesn't justify

this war, which was clearly not self-defense. Plus, it seems to me from my rudimentary knowledge of the gospels that Jesus doesn't want us fighting in retaliation to anything as well. There's the famous "turn the other cheek" passage.