My spiritual journey has brought me to Zen Buddhism.

[More Than A Feeling]

I tried Buddhism once before, several years ago, before I converted to Christianity. At the time, I didn't have the discipline to meditate everyday, much less practice mindfulness (a practice that doesn't have an end, it's pretty much constant). Moreover, I didn't understand the underlying philosophy. I thought that the ideas, despite the moniker of the "middle way" (neither extreme pleasure nor extreme asceticism, did point to such denial and also nihilism. So I put it down, and converted to Christianity, instead.

Now that the ideas of Christianity have lost meaning for me, the path of Zen seems very down-to-earth and practical. It can be summed up in the following interesting manner:

1. Nothing lasts forever, and if I wish it did, I will be unhappy.
2. Between the influence of genetics and the influence of culture, is there anything that is purely
"me", that isn't built from outside sources? It doesn't seem that there is. More over, people
change, their personalities change, and so no self can ever be said to be "final" If I do think
that my "self" can be final, that will make me unhappy.
3. If I pin all of my life's meaning on my identity, or personal possessions, accomplishments,
relationships, or anything else, I will be inevitably disappointed.
4. Then there are the things that will just naturally make me unhappy (if I let them), like sickness,
the loss of loved ones, and the prospect of death
5. The solution to all of this is to understand it, be a good person, and realize that my ideas
emotions have no inherent existence outside myself, and so realize that just because ideas and
emotions are getting in my way, doesn't mean I have to listen to them. Practicing mindfulness and
meditation helps with this.

That is the sum and totality of Zen Buddhism to me. I've done my best to simply outline what I now believe to be true, so that anyone who reads my posts in this forum can know where I am coming from.

[wtmusic]

1. A philosophically close relative is Stoicism

which my journey led me to after reading the works of Marcus Aurelius.

Interesting in that it makes sense with whichever deity you choose -- or none at all.

[More Than A Feeling]

3. Yes, and it takes no great leap of faith to accept the ideas.

What I find most relaxing is that path doesn't require me to apologize for those ideas at all, nor to go around encouraging others to identify with them. I just do what the path says, which relates only to me, and noone else. I don't have to get offended, or feel that my identity is on the line, if someone criticizes Zen or the Buddha. Is it the same for stoicism?

[wtmusic]

5. Exactly the same

the idea involves the pursuit of freedom from passion, or freedom from both pain and pleasure.

IMO the hardest part about this philosophy is not becoming indifferent to pain, but pleasure. The reward is clarity, and for me it is worth the effort.

[NewHampshireDem]

2. I hope this path brings you peace

If I may, I would recommend the following texts, which I have found useful:

Awakening the Buddha Within by Lama Surya Das
Peace Is Every Step and No Fear, No Death by Thicht Nhat Han
It's Easier Than You Think and That's Funny, You Don't Look Buddhist by Sylvia Boorstein

That's just off the top of my head ...

I appreciate you sharing your insights. I wonder, though, where is the metta in your practice?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

4. I might also recommend...

"Zen Mind, Beginners Mind" by Sunryu Suzuki. A good starting-off primer.

I expecially recommend that it be read regularly by martial artists, no matter their level of attainment.

[More Than A Feeling]

6. Thank you for your good wishes.

I'm kind of learning piecemeal. What I noted above are the ideas that have come alive for me so far, expressed in the way in which they made the most sense to me. I'm still just a beginner, despite my prior exposure. I don't have a specific metta practice, nor have I emphasized the idea so far. I'm trying not to force anything, so my practice will be more organic.

[Crunchy Frog]

7. Congratulations.

I'm glad that you've found a philosophical system that works for you, and fits who you are as a person (though the identity of that person has no permanance.;))

I hope you'll keep the rest of us updated as to how it is working for you, and whatever new things you learn or insights you gain.

Thanks for sharing.

[Stevepol]

8. I like the ideas in your summation of Buddhism, and I might just add

a couple thoughts for you to keep in mind as you continue on your path. If any of these ideas is helpful, good. If not, just delete them.

I've done a good bit of reading in other spiritual disciplines as well and find that sometimes I have tended to focus too exclusively on the one area I'm pursuing at the moment. I rather think that all the spiritual disciplines and major religions tend to support and complement one another. In other wds, it's not as if you must forget about all the others in the single-minded pursuit of one or another.

For example, your Christianity I would think would be an excellent complement for your Buddhism. Christ's precepts and Paul's expressions of these precepts refer to the outward, active life, while Buddhism refers to the inner world and how to achieve a sense of peace and overcoming. I think that Christ actually taught some rather mystical, Buddhist-like ideas which the Western versions of Christianity have forgotten about or have under-emphasized in their emphasis on Paul's outward or extermal version. You might find the Course in Miracles helpful in meditation at times, though I find it sort of spaces me out a little more than I feel comfortable with.

Whether Christ taught his disciples some special forms of meditation I don't know (though I suspect it's true), but I know that Christ must have meditated a lot and for great lengths of time. I think of meditation as listening to God, where prayer is talking to God. Christ, we're told, prayed all night on a couple occasions I think, which sounds to me like meditation. You'd be hard-pressed to talk that long I think, and we know Christ listened for God's purposes in his life. The Christ spirit that the Jesus soul evidently accessed at some point in his life (probably at the baptism by John) is actually I think the same thing as the Buddha nature. Just a different name for it.

Anyway, I commend and applaud you for your efforts. Whatever style or method anybody adopts, and everybody is different, it needs to be adapted and made one with our life in all its various phases and aspects if it is to be the most meaningful and beneficial. We all have to work out our own salvation.

[kwassa]

19. the line between prayer and meditation might not exist ...

at least not for me, because both involve listening to God. A very small amount of prayer is the actual talking part. It can take many forms, however.

I have found meditative practices very helpful, but for me what is missing in Buddhism is a sense of connection with the universe, rather than detachment. Buddhism is too bloodless, and without feeling, as opposed to say Sufism, where there is a more ecstatic connection with the universal.

But there are many paths ....

You did a great job in your distinction with the active Christian outlook, which as a westerner is more appealing to me personally. Contemplative practices in Christian worship are growing, as well, which I think is a very positive development.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. Thank you for this

Samuel L. Lewis was a Zen master and initiated people into Zen before he became a Sufi master. I have often wondered about Zen--thank you for explaining it to me.

Many of your points go along with the punch line of an old Sufi story--"This too, shall pass away."

To quote you: realize that my ideas
emotions have no inherent existence outside myself, and so realize that just because ideas and
emotions are getting in my way, doesn't mean I have to listen to them.

That is the key, I think. Thank you for putting it into words that resonate with me.

To practice mindfulness--ah, that is something that is a continuing practice, is it not?

[Zhade]

10. I'm sure this is going to be taken the wrong way by SOMEONE...

...but congratulations on your journey toward a more logical, less repressive faith. I applaud your introspection and honesty during your period of questioning.

You remind me of Catbert here in the R/T forum, and that's intended as high praise.

My best to you!

[Evoman]

14. Catbert really is an impressive person...remarkable even. Your in good company, Heaven and Earth

[Lydia Leftcoast]

11. I'm glad that you've found something that works for you

There are many ways to the Ultimate, and each of us has to find the path that suits us best.

[varkam]

12. Rec'd.

I've always been a fan of Buddhism. It's always made a hell of a lot more sense to me than any other religion. It's also got a lot of psychology in it, which as a student of psychology, I find groovy. Thanks for posting :hi:

[toddaa]

13. My I make a suggestion

Since you've embarked down the path of Zen, I highly recommend you acquire the text of Chuang Tzu's writings. Look for Victor Mair's translation if you can (http://www.amazon.com/Wandering-Way-Taoist-Parables-Chuang/dp/082482038X/sr=1-6/qid=1168403937/ref=sr_1_6/103-2209406-1962201?ie=UTF8&s=books). Chaung Tzu was an early philosopher of Taoism, who's work was a precursor to Ch'an Buddhism (or today's Zen). If you choose something other than Mair's excellent translation, make sure you get one that includes the chapter called Autumn Floods. It's in the Outer Chapters and most likely written by one or more of his students, but it is one of the greatest pieces of literature in history. I think you (and everyone else, for that matter) will enjoy it. One of the world's greatest philosophers and humorists.

[greyl]

15. Don't be surprised if your path doesn't end there. ;)

Take care of your goodness.

[Meshuga]

16. Proactive approach

You pretty much sound like you want to be more proactive and rid yourself from the reactive behavior and the journey you chose for your life seems to be for the search of being a better person.

It sounds like a great path to follow! I know I sound like a Chinese fortune cookie in this thread but here goes my best wishes on your new spiritual home! :-)

[GeorgeGist]

17. Doesn't appear to have anything to do with your spirit ...

except your mind's denial of it.

[More Than A Feeling]

20. Are you saying that I have a "spirit", and above approach pretends that I don't?

It would be helpful if you could explain more deeply what you mean.

[Evoman]

18. Your an interesting person, Heaven and Earth.

Just remember, if Zen doesn't work for you, there is nothing wrong with just letting it go. Letting it all go. Just like Christianity or Buddhism can be fulfilling, there is nothing wrong or terrible about just plain not believing. If you feel yourelf being pulled that way, then don't fight it. Let your brain go where it has too.

[MistressOverdone]

21. I am not a Buddhist

but I find a lot of their practices very calming and helpful.

[XxRouninxX]

22. Take Into Consideration

To a buddhist they are not buddhist. There is no such discrimination in thier minds as buddhist and not buddhist. To a buddhist, they are simple on the path.

Gotama himself said "Do not become attached to rule and ritual" Yet so many people are confused with all the rules in buddhism. They were established in the later part of buddha's career as a teacher, in order to help keep certain groups of "wandering-minded" monks a bit more focused on thier goal of ultimate enlightenment. Before this buddha just said. Hey we are all suffering.. But there's a reason!! Its not just there and unchangable. I have found the way in which all sentient beings may rid themselves of desire, craving, pain, lamentation, grief, despair, and ultimately death. There is a path with eight different methods of cultivating wisdom and other such qwualities of an awakened person.

But.. once the idea of "this is me, im suffering, but i can free myself arisis" thus you have entered samsara (the cyclic existence related to an ignorance of the cause and effect relationship of all things).

Once you say "Aha, I am on the path.. all I must do is meditate, and be mindful, then i will be free from this suffering" you have already lost it, because in the infinitely small momen tbefore the chain of events that lead to that thought underwent, you were already there in nirvana.

All of the buddha's tools are just methods for quieting all aspects of a humans conscious existence, so that peace, tranquility, joy and a plethora of other things were able to spontaneously arise out of shear emtiness.

Thats all for now :)

[More Than A Feeling]

23. Welcome to DU!

You seem to know about Buddhism. Have you studied it academically, or do you practice it as well?

[XxRouninxX]

24. Thanks

I'm self taught, I've learned just from reading and letting it all sink in :)
And I practice it also, but sometimes with... fading devotion, I assume thats what the Virya Paramita is all about (patient endurance.. or zeal).

[WritingIsMyReligion]

25. Buddhism is definitely the only organized religion I'd ever consider.

Congratulations on finding a path that works for you. :thumbsup: