Justifying a point of view with the Bible is questionable (LTTE smackdown)

[GuvWurld]

I don't remember the letter that this letter is responding to. But it doesn't matter. This letter applies much more broadly. Well done John Lewis!


http://www.eurekareporter.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?ArticleID=19340

Justifying a point of view with the Bible is questionable
by John Lewis, 1/12/2007

This concerns the DeLormes’ use of the Bible to bolster their point of view on hunting and other subjects.

I’m not avid about hunting wild creatures myself, but as to the Bible, modern biblical scholars on an international scale all agree, after pondering 100 years of accumulated research, that though the Bible has many nuggets of spiritual wisdom found flowing through its pages, it is not an infallible expression of the words of God. It is the work of human beings, ancient Israelites, put together gradually over centuries. It is no more validated to be a written expression of what some supreme being has to say about its concern for humanity than the great works of other religions. It only seems that way to Christians, just as the Mahabarata seems the book of books to the Hindus, and the Quran to the Muslims, and the I Ching to the Chinese, and the great Buddhist text to the Buddhists, etc. Most people believe in the religion of the culture they grow up within.

There are 6 billion humans on the planet Earth. Only 2 billion believe in the Christian faith. And of these 2 billion, they are split into Catholics and Protestants, each of which are fragmented into hundreds of sects or denominations, many disagreeing over how biblical text should be interpreted. In fact, they fought and killed each other for centuries over who was right and who was wrong, not to mention the slaughtering of people of different religions.

Thus using the Bible to justify your point of view is a very questionable activity. Experts in historical study of ancient texts know that the writings of the Bible reveal heavy influence from various religions of cultures the wandering tribes of Israel came into contact with during centuries of travel. Every significant tale in the Bible, such as the creation story, Adam and Eve, Noah’s ark, etc, can clearly be traced to other religions that existed hundreds of years before the Bible was put together. Even the profound works of the great Greek philosophers and playwrights, Socrates, Plato, Sophocles, etc, were written before the Bible was formed. And scholars can see such Greek influence in certain Biblical texts. It is well-established that the Bible we use was not placed in human hands as a whole complete work by God, but was a gathering of stories over centuries of travel, and finally organized by tribal patriarchs into cohesive form between 500 and 200 BC. The New Testament is another similar story.

As to how one interprets such text, consider Jerry Falwell, Rev. Sun Mung Moon, David Koresh (the preacher who died in Waco), the pope, the leader of the Klu Klux Klan: All claim or claimed to be Christians, thus worshipping the same God. But as to their words and deeds, it is like they believed in different gods. They each interpret the Bible to suit their own agenda. Thus, the DeLormes’ use of and interpretation of the Bible, to bolster their point of view, is no more a validation of what they have to say than the use of the Bible by the leader of the KKK validates his racist diatribes. The DeLormes have a right to believe what they want to believe, but they should not be so sanctimoniously sure of their use of the Bible.

[ClintonTyree]

1. People won't take that letter lying down....

because it shines the light of truth on their fairy tale. The guy is spot-on in his observations but you'll never convince all of the good christians of that. Any attack on their belief system is an attack on them.

This guy makes sense. It's too bad he'll be reviled because of it.

[Meshuga]

2. Hunting question...

As far as the Hebrew portion of the Bible it was put together gradually over centuries and it was the work of human beings: ancient Israelites, with influence from their rulers (including ancient Greeks). That is widely known in Judaism except for the mystical bunch who reject this fact by saying Moses and Hebrews received the Torah at Sinai (even when they themselves don't take the Torah to be a literal book).

With that being said, I know that hunting (for either food or sport) is a forbidden practice in Judaism since there is a prohibition against cruelty to animals as in Tzar Baalei Chayim. For example, the two hunters in the Bible, Nimrod and Esau, are both depicted as villains.

How can people use the Bible to justify hunting? Are there passages in the NT about hunting or is it part of a rejection of the Hebrew law?

[Zebedeo]

6. hunting seems to be permitted as long as the blood is drained

"'Any Israelite or any alien living among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth, because the life of every creature is its blood." Leviticus 17:13

[Meshuga]

8. Hunting is shameful

And the passage you mention teaches that hunting animals (and killing animals in general for food) is something shameful. Leviticus (17:13) instructs Jews to pour out the blood of hunted prey and cover it with earth. This teaches that hunters should be ashamed and should hide the evidence of their killing. This rule (of draining covering the blood) also goes for animals you kill for food, however, you can eat the animal if you kill it the proper way as described in the laws of kashrut which it would make an impossibility for an hunted animal to be allowed to be used as food.

So a "Jewish hunter" would not be able to eat his prey therefore the hunting would only serve as sport. Since hunting for sport is definitely a no no in Judaism then hunting is definitely not a Jewish practice.

In the laws of Kashrut, animals that have been hunted (in the way we use the word hunt today) are not kosher and therefore cannot be eaten. Unless the animal died in a more humane way as described in the laws of kashrut. The only way in Judaism that you can say that hunting is permissible is if you capture the animal you are "hunting" and kill it the kosher way. And the way you capture the animal also has to be humane. Trapping by hurting the animal so it cannot run away is not permitted.

So the possibility for a practicing Jew to be a hunter (as you picture a hunter in your head with a weapon) is zero.

Shooting the animal from a distance with whatever weapon you may think of is strictly prohibited. Unless you are hunting for sport and, like I said, there is an outright prohibition for killing an animal in vain.

[sinkingfeeling]

3. Excellent, factual letter, but I'll bet there will be dozens of rebuttals.

[Evoman]

4. I don't get why people use a source that is so riddled with errors and obfuscation.

If a proffesor of mine assigned a textbook which has one or two SMALL errors, I might still think it had some value. If it made big claims that were mistaken, I would throw the book away and use a better source.

The same goes for a newspaper or other source of info. If something is consistently wrong, then why would you pay attention to what the rest of it says. Again, it makes no sense to me. Of course, I don't require the same from a fictional book...but if its fiction, I read it for fun. I don't use it to justify this or that...I don't read a Dragon-lance book and then pray to Takhisis, or assume that its okay to steal because "Tasslehoff said I could".

I'm a geek.

[cain_7777]

5. Sturm should not have died

[TRYPHO]

11. Because the weak follow the strong?

Posted by Evoman
I don't get why people use a source that is so riddled with errors and obfuscation.

Because there's money in them there hills. People who can lead will take the money off of those who are happy to be lead? The history of sophistry of the Old and New Testaments can easily be traced to day 2 of year 1. As soon as there was something to argue about the people argued. FFS they had built Golden Calves by the time it took Moses to go up and down a mountain - the people need a leader! If all thye get is bloody GWB then they might as well give their money to JC.

Anyway back to the point - because the cleverer villains learned how to do their theiving whilst everyone was looking at them.

TRYPHO

[Zebedeo]

7. I think I know the reason

Every significant tale in the Bible, such as the creation story, Adam and Eve, Noah’s ark, etc, can clearly be traced to other religions that existed hundreds of years before the Bible was put together.

Has it occurred to the writer of this LTTE that the reason for this is that the stories are TRUE? Wouldn't that account for why the stories existed before the Bible was written? Something to think about.

[Meshuga]

9. Different kind of truth

These stories existing before the bible was written does not make these stories true. You can make an argument that they hold some subjective truths since they are wisdoms influenced and passed down from other cultures, religions, and societies.

[Zebedeo]

10. Oh, you are so clever.

I suggest that the stories being true would "account for why the stories existed before the Bible was written." You twist this around and build a straw man, pretending that I said that "these stories existing before the bible was written . . . make(s) these stories true."

I won't let you get away with that kind of sophistry. You know very well that I did not say that the fact that the stories existed before the Bible was written "makes these stories true." Instead, as you know, I said that the truth of the stories would account for the fact that they existed before the Bible was written - a statement with which you cannot reasonably argue.

[Meshuga]

12. Relax Zeb!

The fact that I erroneously interpreted what you said was more on a poor judgement of what I believed you meant with your post rather than trying to distort what you said. Probably based on the way a judged you for your beliefs which is a mistake on my part and I apologize. I can tell you sincerely that I was not trying to twist your words. Chill out! No need to go postal on the account of my error! ;-)