Should children be able to convert without permission from their parents?

[Nikia]

It was just something that I was thinking of today. One of the guys who I knew from childhood died in a car accident. I remember that when he was around 13 that he and his 2 younger brothers decided to be baptized at the Methodist church that they had been attending for a couple of years on their own. Their parents were nonreligious and had problems that kept them from being as involved in their children's life. As far as I know, their parents didn't actively object, but no one asked their permission and their baptism wasn't attended by them either. I joined the Church of Christ on my own at 14even though my dad was Methodist and my mother was UCC. I suppose that these "conversions" aren't as dramatic as a Christian converting to Islam or vice versa, but still what my parents or those boys parents thought wasn't really a concern of the church. Personally, I thought at 14, my religion was my business. On the otherhand, I can see a parent's point of view too. Many parents belonging to a religion would be upset if their children joined another religion. Some atheists are upset if their children get involved with any religion at all. What do you think? Should this be illegal? Is it ethical? Does it depend upon the children involved?

[ashmanonar]

1. i think a parent has to realize

that they're not gonna be able to control what their kids do...if they alienate their kids on their choice of religion, they're gonna lose that kid forever over a simple matter of choice. it's ridiculous to fight over a religion. only if the religion is a cult do i see a problem with it.

at 14, an adolescent should have some control over their life. if you have to check with your parents with everything, there's something wrong.

[murray hill farm]

2. Hopefully...

the church would take into consideration the childs age, maturity and reason for wanting to convert or join on their own. To, for example, decide to convert cause their friend is a member or because..they have the coolest youth group..or cutest members of the opposite sex..(i have heard this reason expressed..ha)..are not valid reasons, but if a child has given it some thought..and knows what the religion stands for and believes..and wants to join for that reason..sure.

[madmom]

3. my daughter was baptised...

without my consent, she was only about 10. she went to the church across the street from us, I had no problem with that, she was curious,but when they sent home her baptismal certificate I was furious. I was not asked ,not invited or informed in any way till it was a done deal.I think I should have been able to have some kind of legal recourse. As a footnote she is now 21 and a pagan.

[Extend a Hand]

4. hhmmmmm

I think in this case, the parents tacitly gave permission by allowing them to attend unescorted for several years.

But, it would be courteous and prudent on the part of a church if they at least asked children if they think their parents would mind and if it would be alright if the church contacted their parents. It seems like this would be an opportunity for the church to demonstrate that they cared about the entire family. The church could let parents know that their child had requested baptism and invite them to attend if they had no objections to the ceremony.

I guess if I were a minister and a child told me his/her parents would object to some ceremony and requested that I not contact his/her parents, I think I would counsel the children to wait on the ceremony and let them know that it's what's in their heart that matters.

So, if I were a minister I wouldn't allow children to convert without hearing an ok from the parents. And as a parent, I wouldn't let my child attend (on a regular basis) a church that I knew nothing about.

[moobu2]

5. Some pagan Christian in the past have forced conversions on others.

For instance (just one example of many) during WWll in Croatia, priests were order by Archbishop Stepinac to tell people they must convert or die. Here's a photo of a group of Serbians being forced to convert to Catholicism. You can see the fear in these peoples eye's as they stand in this Catholic church in front of the baptismal being forced to convert or face death.


244,000 were forced to convert by 1944

Christians have throughout history forced people to convert and if they didn't or didn't prove to the "Christian powers that be" that they were sufficiently Christian enough, they were often killed and enslaved.

I always had the opinion that the Pagan Christian conversion scheme was a direct result of it's early ties to the Roman Empire when Christianity was conceived by Paul and the other early Pagans. I mean the Romans quickly realized the immense power of spreading this Pagan religion through conversion because after all, it was much easier for the Roman Empire to convert people religiously than militarily.

Conversion is encouraged by pagan christian leaders because it's key to expanding their political power.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

6. Pagan Christians???????

:shrug:

Actually, Serbia is traditionally an Eastern Orthodox region. During WWII, many Croatians (who are traditionally Catholic) sided with the Germans and forced Serbians to give up Orthodoxy and become Catholic.

The Serbs, Croats, and Bosnians are basically the same people, only the Bosnians were under the Turks, the Croats were under the Austrians, and the Serbians were under Russian influence. They speak the same language, look similar, eat the same food, and have similar folklore, but you''d think they were all from different planets, the way they've gone after one another over the years.

[moobu2]

8. "Pagan Christians???????"...... yes

Pagan isn't a bad word, it just more accurately describes the various Christian personality cults because they all developed originally from Roman Paganism and Zoroastrianism/Mithraism etc...Most people were considered Pagans before Christianity was invented by Paul.

Jesus was a Jew and never intended a new religion apart from Judaism.

Early Christians simply absorbed other religious superstitions and worship practices as it spread along with the Roman Empire. They gave existing religious characters new names. The practice and focus on "conversions" by Christians was due to it's connection with the Roman Empire early on because it worked well with Rome's imperialistic culture (it was better to convert a population to a single religion for political and power control). The Popes eventually replaced Rome's Ceasers which in turn brought on the dark ages that lasted 1,000 years bla, bla, bla.

Christianity was invented using other religious practices and concepts like monotheism (the belief in 1 God), the son of God being born on earth to save the world (Zoroastrianism), good and evil forces acting on peoples daily lives (Zoroastrianism), heaven and hell (Zoroastrianism) not to mention all Christian holidays are Purely Pagan, for instance Christmas being celebrated on the 25th of December (Roman son God worship), Easter (Astarte or Eastre, Pagan spring fertility ritual), and even worshiping on Sunday was from the Roman pagan belief in a sun God because like I said, Jesus was a Jew and the Jewish Sabbath is not on Sunday.

Also a very clear sign Christianity is Paganistic is the practice by Christians of worshiping idols, saints, crosses, paintings and the like and also the concept of "holy ground" is pure Paganism (Earth and object worship etc...).

[Dervill Crow]

12. paganism and christianity are two entirely different things.

As you said, the early Christians incorporated many pagan beliefs (like a god/man born to a virgin) and rituals (Yule, Candlemas, Ostara) into their practices in an effort to convert people, but it's quite a stretch to say that Christianity is one of the pagan religions.

[moobu2]

15. If something looks like a duck and quacks, it's most likely a duck

Christian hierarchy has worked very hard over the years to disparage the term "Pagan" and "cult" but that's exactly what Christianity is. It's a made up religion with Pagan cultism throughout.

[Ellen Forradalom]

16. The cultural fault line between Europe and the Middle East

runs through the Balkans. Just as with tectonic plates, a lot of friction and upheaval results.

[Tux]

7. Depends

If a child amy become involved in a cult, by all means the parents have a right to prevent their child from converting. If it is a religion that doesn't act as s cult (evangelical christianity comes to mind), then they should not interfer.

[Kire]

9. It also depends on this...

...if they agree with ME!

/sarcasm/

[Kire]

10. I thnk that parents have the right to deny permission in this case.

They should also keep it.

The parents in your story didn't actively object, but they knew about it, right? If yes, they did give permission.

I actually think it's the opposite that should be legal. Parents shouldn't be allowed to force their children to stay in (or join) their own, or any other religion.

Legislating that would be difficult.

[More Than A Feeling]

11. Yes. A child's religion is their own business

A parent interfering would only create a bad situation.

on edit: unless we are talking cult. Then, as in any dangerous situation to a child, the parent has every responsibility to intervene.

[Az]

13. Tricky question

First off there really isn't any way to make a person (child or otherwise) believe a thing if they simply don't. However a parent does have the right to bring a child up in whatever religion they believe to be the correct one. Government gives parents a tremendous amount of leeway in raising their children. And belief is a critical issue. A child may not want to go to church but it is doubtful that any government agency would interviene in such a matter unless it can be shown that the child's welfare is in jeopardy.

[Dervill Crow]

14. Whew, that's a hard one.

I would be very unhappy with a church that baptized my teenager without informing me. There is that commandment about honoring one's father and mother.

My goal when my kids were little was to make sure they grew up to be "good christians," but now I'm hoping that I gave them enough exposure to different beliefs that they will be able to make an informed decision which direction they want to go.

[Ellen Forradalom]

17. It's bad form to convert kids without informing the parents

How bad it is depends on the age of the child; how dramatic a change from the family's religion is involved; whether the religious institution has made a good-faith effort to keep the family in the loop; and whether the institution is concerned with the repercussions for the family.

The attitude of the religious establishment in question makes a big difference here.