As God Is His Witness: Bush is no devout evangelical. In fact, he may not be a Christian at all.

[Ian David]

As God Is His Witness:
Bush is no devout evangelical. In fact, he may not be a Christian at all.

By Ayelish McGarvey
Web Exclusive: 10.19.04


Late in the summer, at the Republican national convention in New York, a movie billed as the conservative alternative to Fahrenheit 9/11 debuted for the party faithful. The film, George W. Bush: Faith in the White House, opens with a montage of a billowing American flag, a softly lit portrait of Jesus in Gethsemane, and a shot of the tawny profile of our 43rd president with his eyes gazing heavenward. Myriad times throughout the film Bush is referred to reverently as a man of faith.

Like no president in recent memory, George W. Bush wields his Christian righteousness like a flaming sword. Indeed, hundreds of news stories and nearly half a dozen books have evinced a White House that, according to BBC Washington correspondent Justin Webb, “hums to the sound of prayer.” Yet for the past four years the mainstream press has trod lightly, rarely venturing beyond the biographical to probe the depth, or sincerity, of Bush's Christian beliefs. Bush has no doubt benefited from the media’s reluctance; Newsweek, for example, in the heat of the run-up to the Iraq War, ran a cover package on the president’s faith under the headline “Bush and God” -- a story whose timing lent the war the aura of having heavenly sanction. Even lefty believers like Jim Wallis, editor of Sojourners, and Amy Sullivan, journalist and Democratic adviser, politely maintain that Bush’s faith is strong, if misguided.

Indeed, in an 8,000-word lamentation appearing in The New York Times Magazine last weekend, Ron Suskind attempted to trace Bush’s lack of intellectual curiosity, and the policy disasters that have stemmed from that, back to his relationship with God. “That a deep Christian faith illuminated the personal journey of George W. Bush is common knowledge,” Suskind wrote. In other words, the devil, as it were, is lurking among the articles of faith, but not in the heart of the man.

This is a huge mistake, because when judged by his deeds, an entirely different picture emerges: Bush does not demonstrate a life of faith by his actions, and neither Methodists, evangelicals, nor fundamentalists can rightly call him brother. In fact, the available evidence raises serious questions about whether Bush is really a Christian at all.

More:
http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=8790

[ms liberty]

1. K&R n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. By their deeds they shall be known

I know that in the 1960s the Methodist Church there was a debate on whether good deeds were needed to be a Christian, or merely professing faith. My pastor at the time said that both were needed; if one were truly a Christian, they would act like one.

I'm going to read the whole article now--should be a good read. Thanks for posting.

[wryter2000]

6. His own church told him not to invade Iraq

He ignored them. That makes him a Christian?

I'm waiting for the day when his utter lack of faith and disregard for other Christians surfaces. It did to a certain extent when the former official of faith based initiatives wrote his book.

[cosmik debris]

3. Who gets to decide?

Bush is not a Christian, Hitler is not a Christian, Dobson is not a Christian.

Who is the final arbiter of who is or isn't a Christian.

I say nobody is a Christian unless they give up all their worldly goods and follow Christ. That settles it, nobody is a Christian.

[atreides1]

14. The final Arbiter is Christ

And the requirement isn't to give up all of your worldly goods, the requirement is to do what is right, in other words to do what Christ would have done.

All the men you mentioned were Christian, they just lacked Christianity!

[Evoman]

15. Where did you get that requirement?

Is that the ONLY requirement given in the bible?

[cosmik debris]

22. And who gets to decide

Bush lacks Christianity, Hitler lacks Christianity, Dobson lacks Christianity.

Who is the final arbiter of who lacks Christianity.

I say everybody lacks Christianity unless they give up all their worldly goods and follow Christ. That settles it, everybody lacks Christianity.

[54anickel]

39. Would that be the WWJD take on it? I always questioned that catch phrase -

What would Jesus do? How the hell would I know, and if I assumed I knew then I would be assuming to know the mind of God. I always thought that to be a pretty far stretch...some might say it's blasphemous. I heard it change to "Would Jesus waste his time on this", but there again I would have to assume to know his thoughts. I haven't figured it out yet.

Closest I could ever come was "would you still be willing to do this if "your" Jesus was standing right there beside you?". For Bush, I think the answer would be yes, since he doesn't seem to give a shit about what others may think about an issue. Of course, that gives us some insight into Bush's image of Jesus. I think Bush's Jesus is a "buddy" who will validate his thoughts and decisions, a guy to turn to in prayer to ask for help when he's in hot water, a "big name" to drop when it's advantageous, a pinch hitter to use when needed and otherwise set aside to warm the bench.

Would it match your image of Jesus? Probably not. Then again would my image of Jesus match yours or anyone elses? Again, probably not. So who's to say they have the correct image of Christ in mind? Who's to say what a "real" Christian is? What's the definition of Christian anyway? There are several, the lowest common is "a believer in Jesus Christ", so like it or not, Bush qualifies. Is he a decent, humane, ethical human being? Hell no!

[More Than A Feeling]

40. Well said!

A very coherent analysis of the possibilities!:thumbsup:

[C_U_L8R]

4. He's a devout Bonesman

that's a contradiction to christian belief right there

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

5. EnCINO man

Christian In Name Only

(Also, because he's clearly a cave man)

[Systematic Chaos]

7. I love that! Nice thinking!

But next time, don't be so rude and insulting to our distant ancestors. :D

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. Haggard's comments in the article are worth the read

... I recently asked Haggard, himself the pastor of a large church in Colorado, why the president, as a man of supposedly strong faith, did not publicly apologize for continually misleading Americans in the run-up to the Iraq War. Instead, Bush clung zealously to misinformation and half-truths. I asked Haggard why, as a man of Christian principle, Bush did not fully disavow Karl Rove’s despicable smear tactics and apologize for the ugly lies the Bush campaign spread over the years about Ann Richards, John McCain, and John Kerry, among others. After all, isn’t getting right with God -- whatever the political price --the most important thing for the sort of Christian Bush has proclaimed himself to be?

Haggard laughed as though my questions were the most naive he’d ever heard. “I think if you asked the president these questions once he’s out of office,” Haggard said, “he’d say, ‘You’re right. We shouldn’t have done it.’ But right now if he said something like that, well, the world would spin out of control!


My comment-Haggard found out what happens when you lie, hasn't he? And his little world has spun out of control!!!!

[cyborg_jim]

11. Building a world on lies - now that's always been a sound policy

[moggie]

9. But is he a Scotsman? n/t

[Evoman]

12. That depends...does he put sugar in his porridge?

[OneBlueSky]

10. Bush's "faith" has always been nothing more than a political gimmick . . .

much like the "ranch" in Texas . . . all sizzle, no steak . . .

[Evoman]

13. He seems christian to me

:shrug:

[madrchsod]

16. duhh

any good christian knows that he is`t

[Evoman]

17. Do good christians put sugar in their porridge?

[cosmik debris]

23. Is it "true" sugar or is it Splenda? n/t

[Az_lefty]

18. No, he's not a real Christian. In fact, he's nothing but an empty suit

G. W. Bush is nothing more than what he thinks his constituents want him to be, so he presents that image. Beyond that he's a shallow little man who is incapable of thinking things through and coming to a rational conclusion.

[catbert836]

34. No such thing as a real Christian.

Our only standard for being a Christian on this earth is one's affirmative statement of his own Christianity.

Have a good day!

[eallen]

19. There's nothing funnier than the religious arguing over "true" religion.

:rofl:

:hippie:

[trotsky]

26. A-fucking-men.

:)

[EVDebs]

20. Bush's endtimes eschatology derives from a 15th Cent. counter-reformation

response to Luther's claim that the anti-christ was within the Catholic Church

The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism
http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/antichrist.htm

The 'dispensationalism' mention in the Guardian's George Monbiot's article

Their beliefs are bonkers, but they are at the heart of power
US Christian fundamentalists are driving Bush's Middle East policy
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1195568,00.html

actually derives from Jesuit Francisco Ribera (as the first link shows) and not the "two 19th Century immigrant preachers" that Monbiot mentions.

This line of end times beliefs results in the "from the Nile to the Euphates" land beliefs to the heirs of Abraham--but ignores Abraham's other heirs, Ishmael, apparently

Greater Israel
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/greater-israel.htm

The complexity of this matter belies the simplemindedness required in simply believing what someone has preached to you from the pulpit ad infinitum, without questions being allowed. For YEARS the biblical interpretations of Chas. Schofield and John Darby have held us hostage. Time to discuss this in the pulpits and on the streets, too.

[irislake]

21. I am among the few

who believe he has always been faking his piety. But not his stupidity.

[More Than A Feeling]

24. Or maybe declaring membership in a religion has little, if anything, to do with how one acts.

The author should have considered that possibility as well.

[heidler1]

25. The glue that holds a house of cards together for another day is

always lies. If the lies happen to support another house of cards, such as religion, then those who's fantasies are enhanced will defend the first house of cards. Human nature is the underlying problem.

[pdrichards114]

27. This man(an insult to the male sex everywhere) is a LIAR THROUGH AND THROUGH!!!

I have never ever heard anything remotely true except when he fucks ups because of his dyslexia.

If he really believes he's Christian, then fuck all those who believe him. Every last one of them is beneath contempt.

Last time I checked there was a commandment to not bear false witness, which fuck head has done oh so many times.

Also examples of breaking the stealing and coveting commandments probably aren't too hard to find.

And those are just the simple rules, he exemplifies none of the finer points of how JC taught us to treat one another better.

Thank you John Conyers for starting investigation!! Woohoo we are on our way to exorcising this little fucking demon from the White House.

[catbert836]

33. Last time I checked, no one human

has the authority to say who is and who is not a Christian.

Have a nice day!

[knitter4democracy]

28. This lefty Christian has never believed that he was Christian.

He doesn't get things right, he doesn't attend church all that much, and his story doesn't sound right.

Of course, I haven't read the Book of Life to know who's going to Heaven or Hell or who's a real believer or not, but Jesus said we'd know believers by their deeds. His heart is in the wrong place--I know our priest would smack him good in confession.

[Pacifist Patriot]

29. I'll say it again.

If Shrub is a devout Christian, I am a door knob. Last I checked, door knobs can't type.

[B3Nut]

30. I always said

that if * was a Christian, I'm a purple spalted aardvark. I've never seen an aardvark with a purple-spalted coloration, so there ya go.

That, and I'm not too fond of ants. I prefer cheeseburgers, myself... ;)

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

[vixengrl]

31. I think it comes down to this:

Matt. 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

In terms of the "will of my Father", I'm reminded of the Rabbi Hillel, who said,"That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary. Go and study it."

In the works of some people who profess Christian faith, there are some hateful actions. I'm no professing Christian or student of the Bible, but if boiled down to simply, "Don't be hateful"--I find it hard to reconcile his actions with the teachings of the man (Bush's "favorite philosopher") who never said "Fear thy neighbor" or "Hate thy enemy."

[catbert836]

32. Bull....shit.

No such thing as a "real Christian". We've been through this so many times, and it shocks me that some people on this board still think they can allege their religion as morally superior by arbitrarily chucking out people who they don't like.

[MistressOverdone]

35. He may not behave as a "good" Christian does

but if he has been baptized and confesses a belief in Christ, he is a Christian. And so was Hitler. I like to think HE had a big surprise on Judgment Day.

[DarkTirade]

36. MAY not?

I'd say he's just about as far from following in the footsteps of Christ as one can be. He and his ilk are both the money changers in the temple, and the hypocrites that Jesus spoke out against.

[catbert836]

41. None of which disqualifies him from being a Christian. nt

[DarkTirade]

42. Last time I checked Christian meant a follower of Christ.

Calling oneself a christian does not make one a christian. Quoting from the bible does not make one a christian. Following Christ makes one a christian.

[Phrogman]

37. Bush is a fucking CON MAN!

and thats ALL HE IS!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

38. He's like the sociopathic preacher in The Night of the Hunter

He talks a good game but there's something underlyingly creepy about him.