Imagine no Salvationist Religion.

[greyl]

Poll question: Imagine no Salvationist Religion.

Imagine a religion that only says the world is a sacred place, and humans belong there.

[cain_7777]

1. All religion is imaginary

[meegbear]

2. From The Straight Dope ...

Does any major religion not believe in life after death?

Dear Cecil:

Is there any major religion that believes there is no life after death or any continuation or reincarnation whatsoever? --Azbug, Berkeley, California

Dear Azbug:

Are you kidding? Absolutely everybody, including atheists, believes in life after death. Eleanor Roosevelt died and you're still alive, yes? I rest my case. The question is not whether there is "any continuation or reincarnation whatsoever" but whether (1) you continue to enjoy some sort of personal existence after death, and (2) whether there is a spiritual or immaterial realm that transcends this mortal coil. On the latter point every religion I have ever heard of argues for the affirmative--else why have a religion?--but there is disagreement on point #1.

Buddhists, strictly speaking, do not believe in an immortal individual soul and in fact much of Buddhist teaching is aimed at the extinction of personal desire. Other eastern religions don't take it that far but do say the proper aim of individual souls is to merge anonymously with the Great Font of Existence. Old Testament Jews did not have a fully worked out idea of the afterlife until late in the game and even today one may argue that personal salvation in Judaism is secondary to the deliverance of the Jewish people as a whole.

Apparently it was the Egyptians who first popularized the idea of a personal postmortem paradise, an idea since adopted by Christians and Muslims. But it's not true, as your question seems to suggest, that the chief appeal of all religions is the chance to cheat Mr. Death.

A QUESTION

You claim that "it's not true . . . that the chief appeal of all religions is the chance to cheat Mr. Death." What, then, is their major selling point? --A. Buddy Tobias, Austin, Texas

Why, the promise of obtaining some clue what it's all about, Alfie. Isn't that enough?

--CECIL ADAMS

[More Than A Feeling]

3. You'd have to define "world" and "sacred"

Does world mean the just the physical planet, or does it include human society? In what sense are you using the word "sacred"?

[greyl]

9. Good point.

World would mean our shared reality independent of institutions and programs, but not necessarily excluding them. Simply put, Earth and the rest of the universe. The same world John talked about when he said “You must not love the world or the things of the world, for those who love the world are strangers to the love of the Father.”

I'd consider sacred to be along the lines of:
• regarded with reverence
• secured against violation, infringement, etc.
• properly immune from violence, interference, etc

[LaBanty]

4. why does it have to be a religion at all?

Why do people need to validate their existence and do good in the world to impress their deity of choice? Are they too weak to do so without imaginary friends and unbelievable stories? Do people really need to choose a religion to do the right thing? So far, it hasn't worked out so well.

[greyl]

10. Not all religions worship deities.

Also, the phrase "imagine no religion" seems to upset some people, so I'm trying to discover some compromise. ;)

[bryant69]

5. It would be interesting

It would answer the question of "What's the point to all this" I suppose, but I don't know, ultimately, how satisfying an answer it is. It of course doesn't provide much comfort when you watch a loved one die or face death yourself.

It also depends on how religiously based you believe most wars are - in other words is Religion the reason for the war? Or an excuse? If the latter, one has to imagine that man's ingenuity would come up with another excuse.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[MistressOverdone]

7. I so agree

one of the themes here on R/T is that religion, particularly Christianity, is responsible for most of the heinous behavior on the earth. I put forth that is not true. I think human beings are going to behave in territorial, greedy, and just cranky ways no matter what. Religion is a nice excuse.

Religion has little to do, for example, with the major cause of violent crime in this country, which is substance abuse. Lots more people are dying on the streets from gun "play" related to gang violence related in turn to drug territory, etc. than have died in Iraq.

Humans are basicaly still flawed (I watch Star Trek: I have hope!) and they will find a way to act on it without any help whatsoever.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

6. Original sin is a false original premise.

Original sin offends my sense of justice. Original sin is like a crooked prosecutor framing an innocent person, saying "You're guilty just because you're breathing".

I also see no need for substitutionary atonement.

[MistressOverdone]

8. I'm not real clear on the concept of original

sin, but I do know I never met a perfect person. If the two are related, I really don't know.

I do believe humans have a genetic disposition for shame, even if it is in regards to something they have had nothing to do with.

The concept of atonement, therefore, is comforting and convenient.

On edit: Sentence two above really has nothing to do with sentence 1. Sorry my ideas aren't flowing better this AM. Better go get more coffee.

[Meshuga]

11. No value for this world = bad

I would assume that a salvationist religion is one that sees this world as a temporary place, just something to be endured, before humans go to another better world somewhere else (i.e., paradise, heaven, etc.).

In my opinion it is a pretty troubling belief since it takes this world for granted, there is no need to protect our environment, there is no need to fight for injustice, etc. Someone here in this board appeared not to be overly concerned about saving the whales here on earth since they might be seen yet again in whale heaven somewhere in the "otherworld".

The otherworldly, anti-world, anti-science, anti-physical reality stance is a problem we face today with the rise of religious fundamentalism. We are in the 21th century going right into the 13th century.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

12. Definitely the best. When we stop looking for somebody ELSE to do it, maybe we'll fix the world.

Cure cancer, end poverty, and stop fucking fighting over whose sky-man is best.

Organized religion puts too much emphasis on tomorrow for my comfort, and so sacrifices today.