How large a part of your identity is your religion/faith/spirituality?

[More Than A Feeling]

Large enough to make criticism of your religious ideas into criticism of you personally?

[Erika]

1. As an atheist, maybe I shouldn't post on this.

However, I wonder what is meant by the term spirituality. I know I feel satisfied when I've helped another.

[stillcool]

7. "Religion is for those...

afraid of going to hell...spirituality is for those who've already been there"...from AA meetings. Spirituality to me...is the air that I breathe, the sky, the ocean, the "I am". Religion..to me, is a tool used to control others.

[Erika]

9. Beautiful n/t

[Tormenta]

23. Religion is whatever you want it to be.

Organized religion is something else altogether.

[stillcool]

31. my only experience with religion is

Catholicism...and it was nothing I wanted it to be, but then again the choice was not mine to make.

[givemebackmycountry]

2. Very small if any at all

I'm from the Bill Maher school of spiritual belief.
I disdain organized religion.
The only way you see me in church is if I'm dead AND someone ignored the instructions in my will.

I worship how I worship, and it ain't no one else's business when and how I do it.

You can't criticize about me, what you don't know about me.
Now, if only everyone was like that.

But, some people (mega-church fundies) like to make a BIG production of their "worship".

EVERYBODY has to know what they believe in.

"Well, I'm a CHRISTIAN and I think"
or
"Well, I'm a CHRISTIAN and I believe"
or
"Well, I'm a CHRISTIAN and I say"

and then there's me...

"Well who the hell asked you what you are"?

You can criticize me for being an asshole, that's easy to do.
But, never for my beliefs.

I don't think I like this question.
I should have never answered it.

[More Than A Feeling]

11. I'm glad you did.

I particularly liked this quote:

You can't criticize about me, what you don't know about me.
Now, if only everyone was like that.

Truth is beautiful.

[CoffeeCat]

3. This is a very interesting question...

I'm not sure I know how to answer it--so I'll just blather.

First off, I feel that human beings don't have any definitive answers
on God, religion, etc. We just can't know absolute truths when it comes
to religion or God. I don't think that we were meant to.

With that said...faith (and what you believe spiritually) is a very personal
slice of someone's life--that is formulated through experience, insight and
wisdom from self and others.

So, really--spirituality is an integral part of me--because it deals with
my core: Who I am...why I'm here...what am I? However, since I believe
that we aren't capable of having definitive truths on faith/God/spirituality--
I never take criticism of my beliefs personally. I'm open to learning new
things about spirituality and religion. I don't like to close myself off.
I believe I can learn from anyone and everyone.

....I grew up in a very abusive Catholic home. After going to college, I shed
my family, and that included their "religion". I was happy to crawl out of
that cocoon. Several years later, I began therapy--to unravel the horrendous
damage of the abuse. I was in a really strong place with a great husband
and two adorable kids. It was my time to heal. I was at peace and moving
forward, and very content with the notion that there was no God, afterlife, etc.
I wasn't scared of death and as I grew stronger--from the therapy--I felt as if
weights had been lifted. Soon after, I began having very intense spiritual
experiences. I didn't ask for any of this. I really didn't believe in it.

I've come away from these experiences with an understanding that we are all
connected spiritually. I sense that we're spiritual beings having a human
experience--and that there is something much bigger and greater out there.

Just my 2 cents.

[Erika]

4. Maybe its just an instinct based on survival of the species

and just an extension of our will to live?

I think about an animal's protection of the young, or culling out the abnormal.

[CoffeeCat]

6. That's interesting...

So, you're saying that a belief in the afterlife or in "something beyond ourselves"
is a desirable trait that helps our species to survive?

I guess it makes sense...from a Darwinian perspective. People who had the sense that
"this is it" and we're just done when we die---might not thrive as well as someone
who believed in eternal life.

I know many people who have a very strong faith. It keeps them going. It gives them hope.
Their quality of life is definitely enhanced.

Interesting. Very thought provoking.

[Erika]

8. I do not believe in eternal life on an individual basis

but, yes, as a species we may indeed press for eternal life.

Religious faith may be just another name for species protection, but applied on an individual basis.

[stellanoir]

5. I often say that "Humor is my religion."

I decided that upon hearing years ago that some astrophysicists speculated that at the center of our galaxy the primary chemical componant was NO2 (aka laughing gas.)

Laughter and love are the singular unifying factors most human beings share.

Even totally agnostics can be amazingly funny. They often crack me up.

What if each and every one of us could channel our "creatrix" by inspiring smiles in others (especially strangers) as often as we could? That would totally dispell all this g-d awful collective fear for sure.

I've always fantasized that if we could all just learn a joke in every language, we'd establish a truly lasting peace on earth.

I often have weird fantasies like that.

tra la la

[Lydia Leftcoast]

10. Interesting question

It is a very large part of my life, especially with music and charitable work, but I don't have a huge emotional investment in the details of theology, since I believe that God is larger than anything the human mind can grasp. For me it's an experiential rather than an intellectual matter.

Now, I've seen how left-of-center people react when conservatives refer to liberals as immoral or imply that liberals are all lazy welfare bums or raise taxes because they want to benefit personally from them.

You've heard those slanders. I bet they annoy you. I bet you think that people who hold those opinions are ignorant.

In the same way, I get annoyed when some (just some) of the atheists on this board refer to religion as "the source of all evil in the world" or imply that all religious people are stupid or ignorant of science.

What people believe or don't believe is none of my business, as long as they can refrain from gratuitous insults (as opposed to valid criticisms of the results of certain religious beliefs, in which case I'll probably chime in.)

[roguevalley]

12. no. but it makes me tired of hearing kneejerk criticism of belief

in general. however, that is the right of people and I don't care. a lot of people have made belief sullied with their heresy and hatred. that is true for almost all faiths out there. however, i am not so tied into what I believe that I'm not open to new ideas.

my faith propells me to seek truth wherever it goes. I want gnosis. Nothing more, nothing less.

[More Than A Feeling]

13. What makes criticism "knee-jerk"? n/t

[roguevalley]

14. i feel it knee-jerky when it falls to just ridicule. i would rather people

make their points and express their opinions about points, etc. but for some of the responders, its always ridicule plain and simple. it is sort of ironic that those who find religion filled with poseurs and liars and buffoons would chose to respond to religion threads with buffoonery. a few do. i would rather hear reasoned points of view, than to see the same old commentary and ridicule each time.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. What you said

the only thing such negative posts do is to belittle the poster in my eyes and to make it harder to remember that not all atheists are like them.

[roguevalley]

27. absolutely. I think a lot of atheists post about the lack of courtesy

given them especially by believers, mostly the more heretical ones. then they do the same to believers. respect for each point of view will never come that way.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

28. I sometime wonder if DUers who disagree are even interested

in finding common ground. I have my own opinion of atheists that I don't put in print because I know it might upset some of them--its a matter of respect for their point of view--hey, I don't even use the word "belief" because so many object to using that term. Frankly, I get tired of getting talked down to by some atheists whose whole tone is that because I am a believer I am stupid. I've even seen that term used to describe believers here on this board.

How is name calling in any way constructive? How is this helping us unite to solve problems?

[roguevalley]

29. agreed. no one is pure. no one is perfect. both sides have their

quizling heretics. believers aren't stupid. scientists aren't pure. both value systems involve people.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

30. And

some scientists can be believers. The thing I find most amusing is that some atheists can't seem to get this fact 'round their heads. It's like they think anyone who believes in science cannot believe in a God concept.

[More Than A Feeling]

33. I'll answer that, if you don't mind.

What I think non-believers are asserting in that case is not that scientists cannot be believers in God. The claim is that in order to be a believer, a scientist has to refuse, consciously or unconsciously, to apply the norms and methods of science to examining their own belief. They must partition their beliefs from their professional training.

[roguevalley]

34. I know. Its interesting.

[varkam]

15. My spirituality is a big part of who I am.

And it's attacked on pretty much a daily basis, so I had to grow a pretty thick skin. It doesn't really upset me anymore, it just annoys me.

[trotsky]

36. That's just because your spirituality is so freaking weird.

Duh! ;-)

[Meshuga]

16. Identity is a biggie

I'm part of sort of a tribe so cultural and social identity is a biggie and faith is secondary. A person is considered an active participant in my group if s/he enters at least one of its three main components: ethics, peoplehood, and spirituality.

My beliefs are too shaky in order for a criticism to be large enough for me to take it personally. I would only take it personally if others are trying to define what I believe based on my identity.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. A big part

but part of my faith is to practice tolerance of others who have different faiths and opinions. Because I do try to respect them, I do get upset when they don't offer me the same courtesy.

[H2O Man]

19. Large enough

that criticism can, at most, bring a smile.

[kwassa]

20. 37.28% of my identity.

:headbang:

[Igel]

21. Criticism of my ... I can handle without a problem.

Stereotyping and unjustly or inaccurately labelling my religion/faith annoys me and tells me that I'm dealing with an idiot and it turns into "us" versus "them".

After all, most stereotypes (at least when taken as truths) do little more than intertribal insults do, and serve mostly to allow the idiot I'm talking to to feel superior and better than others. More of the "the worst of my group is better than the best of your group" idiocy.

[More Than A Feeling]

22. That raises a threshold question:

"Who gets to decide what criticism is stereotyping and unjust/inaccurate labeling?" The answer to that question will determine the outcome of the discussion, because whoever has that authority, that person can reject the other's criticism solely based on that authority, rather than on the truth/falsity of the claim, if they so chose.

Should it be the believer, because of some supposed greater experience/knowledge of the faith (whether or not that actually exists)? Or the non-believer, for two reasons; 1) because the religious person is the one making the claim, so it is on them to justify themselves to the satisfaction of the non-believer, and/or 2) because the believer has invested enough of themself in their claim that they cannot claim to be an objective party?

[Evoman]

26. Yes, but thats the point.

Many people take criticism as "unjustly labelling religion", etc. For example, I can say things like "all religion is irrational and unfounded". Many people would call that a "innacurate label" and then proceed to get pissed off, because THEIR religion is rational and based on reason. Even though it isn't, and its a valid criticism.

[cyborg_jim]

24. 0%

[Evoman]

25. Since I don't even know what spirituality is, I would have to say "negligible"

or 0.0001% (and that just allowing for weird definitions of spiritual). I do really like nature, and the sky, and tree, and butterflies,etc....but I don't really feel like "one" with nature or the universe. I'm pretty sure that if I tried to live in nature, I would be killed pretty quick....bears don't really care whether or not your spiritual.

[Dorian Gray]

32. Just ask Timmy Treadwell

:)

[trotsky]

37. Count me among those who are confused by "spirituality."

Especially since there are quite a few folks who think that if you aren't at least "spiritual" then you're a fundamentalist atheist. :shrug:

[NMMNG]

35. I am a very spiritual person

But my spirituality isn't based on any beliefs/ideas so there's nothing to criticize.