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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 06:23 PM
Original message
My parents are thinking about joining an Assembly of God
Church.

They have always been fundy wingnuts, but this worries me.

I know it is Ashcroft's church, and Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker's church. I looked up some stuff about them. They speak in tongues, believe in faith healing, and are generally charismatic. I am very turned off by this type of worship. This is just one more thing that will drive a wedge between me and my parents, I guess.

Does anyone here know anything more about these churches?
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. I went to one once
they were against women wearing slacks, but didn't throw me out. They did talk in tongues and discussed faith healing, etc. The mystical aspect of the church was there, but appeared to be buried under the structure of the church.
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shawcomm Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I don't understand why they do the 'talking in tongues' thing.
Edited on Sun Feb-27-05 06:33 PM by shawcomm
Don't they understand that it meant talking in different languages so that everyone understood? How in the world did they decide that it meant babbling incoherently while flopping around on the floor?
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hvn_nbr_2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Directly contradicting the Bible seems to be part of taking it literally
"Huh?" you say. Well, it's really quite simple. When it says that Peter and Paul spoke in their language and all the crowds understood them, each in their own language, it really means quite literally, as all scripture means exactly and literally what it says, that everyone there babbled so incoherently that they themselves didn't even know what they were saying. If you can't see that, you must be an evil sinner on the way to hell. Oh, f#@*, who the heck knows?
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Tell them to be more conservative and join...
the Unification Church.
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Seriously; they're looking for a few good people over at John Birch, too.
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McKenzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. here's their website for info'
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I went there before I posted. But thanks.
eom
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. Why??
Friends recommending it to them? Church-shopping in the Yellow Pages? Door-to-door proselytizing? It's in-the-neighborhood and an easy walk from home?

-- Allen

PS: My condolences.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. Some DUer (I forget which one), whose father is an AOG minister,
said that they're being obviously influenced by Republican political ideology (much to his father's dismay, by the way).
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7th_Sephiroth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. ah yes, the first assembly of god
i love painting the letters of thier signs out ecept for the first, leaving a hilarious acronym
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Tafiti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
10. I know quite a bit...
...I went to one for the first 18 years of my life. My dad was an AG minister until I was 12, and 2 of my uncles still are to this day.

I can probably answer any question you may have.
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Are they cult-like?
If my parents get sick, will they be able to go to a doctor, in spite of the faith healing stuff?

Will they take all my parents' time and money, and cut them off from their family and friends?

Will they really tell them how to vote? How extreme are they? My dad is a pretty rigid Christian. Do they do any actual good? For example, do they help the poor and homeless?

My father seemed quite proud that they deny membership to couples who live together out of wedlock, and prohibit divorced people from being deacons. Considering that the Bakkers, Jimmy Swaggart and Ashcroft are some of their more notorious members, I think they could stand to have a bit more humility about themselves.

My parents are not educated. They both dropped out of high school in the forties. Does the church prey on the uneducated, and prefer to keep them ignorant?

I did visit their website. I am sorry if you find any of these questions offensive. My parents are elderly, and have always been quite gullible.
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Tafiti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. No need for apologies.
I'm an agnostic-atheist now, so I don't find it a bit offensive...

If my parents get sick, will they be able to go to a doctor, in spite of the faith healing stuff?

Definitely. They indeed believe that they can be healed through faith - miracles from God - but absolutely do not rely on it as an exclusive method. I've never heard of any AG church promoting that sort of thing. Believe it or not, those churches are much more extreme than AG.

Will they take all my parents' time and money, and cut them off from their family and friends?

There are typically 3 church services per week - one on Wednesday, and two on Sunday (AM & PM). They may have little social groups now and again, but other than that, it's pretty much your normal church-going.

If your parents are staunch Christians, then it will be recognized, and their personal lives will pretty much remain just that. Only when an unbeliever comes to the church and gets "saved" will people get involved with their personal lives. I would say this is usually accepted with open arms by the "saved" person, because they will come right out and ask people their advice - should I do this? Should I not do this?

Money - of course. If they becomes members, they, like everyone else, will be expected to tithe. Of course, it's not actively enforced, but it's still an expectation, and one that's usually complied with. The time factor is all up to your parents.

Will they really tell them how to vote? How extreme are they? My dad is a pretty rigid Christian. Do they do any actual good? For example, do they help the poor and homeless?

Hmmm. This Republican-Christian thing is (usually) not something explicitly "taught" from the pulpit (as far as I've ever seen). This usually comes about through social interaction with other members of the church over time. Pat Robertson is an AG guy (or at least very close), so his words are like gospel. A consistent dose of the 700 Club will surely seal the deal with regards to politics. "Well, Pat Robertson is a hardcore Republican, he must have it right." Not much critical thinking going on here, it's just that simple.

How extreme? I'm not sure how to answer that. Theologically, it's very dogmatic, black-and-white. Interpretation is a bad word. It's "code" for justification of sin. They adhere to a literal interpretation of the bible, etc. The extremism is borne of its rigid, unbending theology, much like Islamic fundamentalism.

It's all up to your parents on how much "good" they want to do. There's not a lot of organized "good Samaritan" activities, but I'm sure the outlets are there if that's a priority for your parents. Most of these "helping hand" initiatives are not so much for the act of helping itself, but an opportunity to "witness", which means proselytize. That's the underlying goal at all times - conversion.

My father seemed quite proud that they deny membership to couples who live together out of wedlock, and prohibit divorced people from being deacons. Considering that the Bakkers, Jimmy Swaggart and Ashcroft are some of their more notorious members, I think they could stand to have a bit more humility about themselves.

True, if you're not married, but live together, you are "living in sin." This is highly frowned-upon. In such cases, I can imagine a church "leader" approaching those people for "counseling."

As far as divorce goes, in my experience, it seems to be a bit more "liberal", as opposed to the Catholic church. If there is good reason for the marriage to end, they are not opposed. I've never heard of divorced people being denied deaconship, but I wouldn't be surprised if some churches are like that. Oh, by the way, there is no humility. They are the "true" Christians, Catholics and liberal Christians are not. They are deceived. This lends its hand to their fervor for proselytization.

My parents are not educated. They both dropped out of high school in the forties. Does the church prey on the uneducated, and prefer to keep them ignorant?

As an atheist, I think religion in general fits very well into throngs of the uneducated, and AG is no exception. Of course, as I said above, a strict, dogmatic, black-and-white worldview is perfect for the uneducated. No nuance, no need for interpretation or analysis or critical thinking, just answers. However, your question seems to infer that the church hierarchy is aware of this ignorance - as per your phrase "keep them ignorant." This is certainly not the case. They are all ignorant, and happily spread it around for everyone to share in the delusion. Likewise for the "preying upon" - objectively it is a predator-prey relationship, but this isn't consciously so. The predator has GOOD NEWS to share about Jesus Christ! And he wants the prey to hear it, so that he can accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior and get to heaven someday! Seriously, that's it. Like I said, one big shared delusion.

As for their gullability, I take it they are not adept at critical thinking. What I said above applies here of course. Sorry to say, but it sounds like they might be very happy there.

One note: these are my experiences, which is only a handful of churches in the Midwest. I would assume that the AG denomination is fairly consistent across the spectrum, but I'm not sure. But even then, individual churches might have some weird quirks involved, because there isn't really any theological oversight going on. Also, most of these churches were not very large, so bigger churches might be a little different as well. Anyway, just something to keep in mind. Hopefully this will help a little bit. Feel free to ask me anything else if you wish.










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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Thank you.
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Tafiti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. You're welcome. n/t
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