True or False: If God does not exist, life could not possibly have meaning.

[More Than A Feeling]

Poll question: True or False: If God does not exist, life could not possibly have meaning.

My own opinion is that this is one of the most divisive attitudes a religion could feature, because blinds the eyes of those who have it to examples of happy, well-lived lives where religious ideas have found little purchase. So instead of seeing a common happiness, one is forced to believe that a non-religious life is inherently unhappy, which can result in either proselytization, or an unwarranted pity.

So, true or false: if God does not exist, life could not possibly have meaning.

[endarkenment]

1. If God didn't tell us what to do we would eat our children.

True or False?

What a silly question.

[More Than A Feeling]

3. It's a relatively frequent justification for religion.

Your question was meant as a joke, but I have been asked before by ardent believers (in real life, not on DU) why it would be wrong to murder if there was no god.

These attitudes are out there, and they are not uncommon.

[endarkenment]

8. Oh I agree they are common, but very silly. nt.

[BattyDem]

15. My response to people who ask that question:

"So ... the only thing preventing you from killing your family and friends is your belief in God?"

"Of course not!"

"But you just said it wouldn't be wrong if God didn't exist, so why wouldn't you do it?"

"Because I care about them. I love them."

"But without God, there would be no way to distinguish right from wrong or good from bad ... is that right?"

"Yes, that's right."

"So then you're admitting it. Without God, you would have no way of knowing it's wrong to kill someone you love. God is the only thing preventing you from killing your family and friends."

"Um ..."

"Wow, that's pretty sad ... and a little bit frightening." (BattyDem turns and walks aways as a head explodes behind her ...)

:evilgrin:

[unpossibles]

31. that last step is usually where I get accused of being Satan or similar

I've tried to use that same argument, and the person I am speaking to usually just glazes over and suddenly can't comprehend a word I am saying, or just ignores me.

[BattyDem]

36. Oh yeah, when all else fails ... they call you "the devil"

or they just walk away and ignore you. Either way, it's a victory because you managed to rattle their world of absolutes ... if only for a moment. :-)

[unpossibles]

37. oh, I enjoy it usually

but it's not like I've actually changed their mind either.

[BattyDem]

41. I never expect to change their minds ...

but it's fun to trap them in their own twisted logic, LOL! :evilgrin:

[jobycom]

2. I kind of like Socrates's comment before being convicted of atheism

An unexamined life is not worth living.

To me, the examination, not some belief in a divine being, is the real purpose of religions, anyway, whether that examination leads one to a belief in a divinity or in the opposite direction. Lots of religious followers lose sight of that.

[brentblack]

4. There is no God...

...but each of us make meaning in our own lives.

One does not need some supreme being to feel like they are worthwhile. At least I do not.

[DemGa]

5. If the end of this life is the absolute end

No God, no soul, no nothing; then there is absolutely no meaning for anything. Fortunately, it cannot be proven.

[More Than A Feeling]

6. Can you explain why there would be no meaning in that scenario?

[DemGa]

11. A random existence that just ends

If I could go on a trip around the world but afterward have to take a drug which made me forget the whole thing, what would be the point in going?

[htuttle]

12. The point would be the people you met and talked to on the way, etc...

Existence isn't necessarily only about our OWN perspectives and immortality. IMHO, it's a collective enterprise.

I feel that your perspective is a bit selfish -- ie., if I don't get a pat on the head by the Big Guy at the end of it, there was no point?

[DemGa]

14. No mention was made of a "Big Guy."

There would be no people you "met" or "talked" to on the way. They would be erased from your mind and so might as well have never existed.

[htuttle]

17. I wouldn't remember them, but they would remember them

As I said -- human existence is a collective enterprise passed down to us by our ancestors, and if we succeed, is also passed on to our progeny. Whether I personally remember any of it is entirely irrelevant.

In other words, we're verbs, not nouns.

[More Than A Feeling]

13. To see the sights, meet interesting people, achieve things that help others

and tell your story to others so that they can remember what you did on your trip around the world. Maybe have a child who can remember your trip while they are on their own. Make it so that future trips will be better for the people who come after you. Help others who are on the same trip get as much out of it as you do while you are there.

[DemGa]

16. And each of these people who follow,

their fate is the same, and eventually the state of "nothingness" for all. It would be the best we could do: provide comfort. We might decide this is our fate, but again, I'm glad it cannot be shown to be true.

[More Than A Feeling]

19. Ok, so let me ask you this

when is the meaning applied? If God exists does that make what goes on in this life meaningful, or is it all still meaningless until after we are dead, when God does whatever you think he/she/it does?

[DemGa]

23. The meaning would apply to every moment

not just at some "payoff" time. This would fit with "the kingdom of God is within you" and "is in your midst."

[More Than A Feeling]

24. Can humans come up with meaning on their own, even if they think that a god does not exist?

[unpossibles]

38. the point for me would be to experience it, enjoy it, and learn from it

I may get struck with amnesia tomorrow - that doesn't mean my life is pointless. In fact, I would argue that as someone who does not think there is an afterlife/heaven/Supreme Deity, I highly value the worth and meaning of what may be my only life.

If anything, I feel an afterlife kind of invalidates the worth of our time here; it makes life on earth the map instead of the territory, a Cosmic Aptitude Test which serves no purpose but to get us into the right afterlife. I am not attacking anyone who does believe this, merely stating why I don't.

While I would rather not, if I died right now, my last thoughts would be that at least I had experienced life and tried to be a good person.

[BurtWorm]

28. If it can't be proven one way or the other, why should there be less meaning to life

if there's nothing but death after death? What would be the difference to your life as you're living it now if, when you die, your consciousness is snuffed out with your breath and you simply return your borrowed molecules to the earth they came from?

What a strange paradox for believers in an afterlife! You live your life as if its meaning comes from a supernature, to which you'll retire after life expires in the natural universe. If you die and there is no supernature, you'll never know, so there's really no harm done. But for some reason, so many of you seem to believe it's imperative for there to be an afterlife or the life you're living as though there is an afterlife from which it derives its meaning will be meaningless. Truly a bizarre paradox!

[Evoman]

32. If the end of this life was not the absolute end

Why would it have any more meaning?

[More Than A Feeling]

33. That's a good point.

Consider spring training in baseball. It isn't more meaningful because the regular season follows.

[Evoman]

34. Right.....asking the meaning of spring training is still not answering the question

about what the ultimate meaning of baseball is.

The question is useless, and not overly interesting in my opinion. People can discuss what they feel is the meaning of life, but its all useless...because there is always a higher level to question the meaning of, lol.

Just give your life its own meaning, and let the universe take care of itself.

[NMMNG]

39. There is plenty of meaning in life

The fact that it has an absolute end makes it all the more meaningful because it entices you to work harder to fill it with good, with joy, with meaning. The notion that this life is just a 'precursor' to an afterlife can cause people to disregard mortal life in favor of the afterlife and make it essentially meaningless.

[raccoon]

56. Also, "The notion that this life is just a 'precursor' to an afterlife"

I think, leads people to accept social injustices, rather than striving to change them, because they think it'll all be made OK in the afterlife.

[NMMNG]

57. True

As long as we just sit around waiting for Karma/God/? to fix our problems we won't make much progress on them ourselves.

[jgraz]

40. Actually, quite the opposite

If you exist for all eternity following your death, the relative meaning of your life is exactly zero when compared to your upcoming experience of eternal bliss or torture. This is the trap of salvationist nihilism. All of your actions and experience mean nothing unless they're setting you up for eternal life. This gives your current (and only) existence a cheapness which is so familiar to devout salvationists that they don't even realize it's there.

As one of my favorite bumper stickers says, "if you can't find heaven here, dying probably won't help."

[DemGa]

47. I'm not a fundamentalist

"the relative meaning of your life is exactly zero when compared to your upcoming experience of eternal bliss or torture"

That statement makes quite an assumption of my viewpoint: one that I do not hold. Do you equate spirituality necessarily with religion?

And why would the relative meaning of my life be zero because I feel death is not the ultimate end? This implies more meaning, as the context is made indefinably broad.

[Random_Australian]

42. Which reminds me of a cake I once made at Christmas -

you see, it was an excellent cake, and the family very much enjoyed it - however, when it was all eaten, it was destroyed. And things that are destroyed have no purpose, so it would have been better if I'd not made the cake.

Or not.

In other words, just because something is destroyed does not remove it's purpose.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

43. Pretty self-absorbed viewpoint

We are a tiny piece of the universe, and make meaning for ourselves with our lives. That IS the meaning.

"Fortunately, it cannot be proven."

Why, because it gives you an out when you can't defend your viewpoint? LOL.

[DemGa]

46. Pretty self-absorbed viewpoint?

I did not say that this life is not the meaning. I said if it is the ultimate end, it is meaningless. Now is always the meaning. It is rather an expansive thought, not restrictive. It pushes outward to infinity.

The opposite I would find self-absorbed. Lol

[More Than A Feeling]

48. How can now "always be the meaning" when you have already stated

the condition ("if is the ultimate end") under which it would, according to you, be meaningless?

[DemGa]

50. Because the condition (if is the ultimate end)

has not been met.

[More Than A Feeling]

51. You don't know that.

Death could be the end of consciousness and life for every human being right now, and maybe it always it has been.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

54. I'll quote your own words

Your initial post:
No God, no soul, no nothing; then there is absolutely no meaning for anything. Fortunately, it cannot be proven..

Your most recent post:
Now is always the meaning. It is rather an expansive thought, not restrictive. It pushes outward to infinity.

Do you not see the conflict between the two actions? There doesn't have to be a higher power for this life to have meaning, and our own impact lives on even after our final breath. We don't have to be Einstein or Hitler to affect future generations. It doesn't take a "soul" or even religion to build a positive life filled with meaning.

[Solon]

44. Shouldn't we create such meaning, for ourselves?

Even if what is said in your post is true, that there are no Gods, wouldn't that simply mean we must create a meaning for our own lives without such beings? You can't say life is meaningless when there is no doubt that it exists in the first place, if you can't work towards a paradise in the afterlife, why not try to create a paradise for humanity itself, on Earth, for your children and grandchildren? Is working towards that somehow meaningless?

[rexcat]

58. Not really...

the meaning of life is to propagate the species. That damn DNA has a lot of power over all species. If you don't breed then there is no meaning to life unless you have the intelligence to make meaning in your life.

[oldleftguy]

7. It's better to rule in hell...

than to serve in...What was the question?

:hi:

[Rob H.]

9. I actually had an acquaintance tell me once that non-religious folk

couldn't possibly have any sort of moral framework if they didn't believe in God. :eyes:

[chaska]

18. Your acquaintance ... not real deep, I'd say....

Man created God in his own image. Why is it so hard to believe that morality exists outside of Mr. God? Sheesh!

[NMMNG]

45. I've heard that more than once myself

I suppose that spending half my life in human services and all of that time/money I've donated to charitable causes (among other things) is just prime example of that. :sarcasm:

[valerief]

10. No meaning. Okay. Move along. Life goes on. nt

[kiahzero]

20. I once again find a good reason to post this comic:

[More Than A Feeling]

21. Perfect.

:thumbsup:

[jody]

22. IMO a more primal question is whether each human has some essence, e.g. a soul or spirit, which

survives the death of her or his physical body. If that doesn’t exist then the issue of meaning given eternal time and infinite space seems meaningless.

[GeorgeGist]

25. Non sequitor...

Religion is not God.

[More Than A Feeling]

26. How do you know that?

To say that you know what is not a god implies that you know what is a god.

By the way, your post is itself a non sequitur, because nowhere did I state "Religion is God".

[Evoman]

35. Ad hominem.

You fucking asshole.

;) jk

[saltpoint]

27. Voted "False." & will vote the same way tomorrow.

[Evoman]

29. Personal meaning or Ultimate Meaning (tm)?

There is a difference. Although, even with god, I find the question of Ultimate Meaning unsatisfying. Even if god gives us meaning, what gives god meaning? Ultimately, you reach a point where nothing has meaning anyways.

Thats why I am content just having personal meaning. And that personal meaning is an extension of my upbringing, genetics, and experience. I have no ultimate meaning...you might as well ask what the ultimate meaning of a rock is...or a cockroach, or a piece of snot, or smegma or syphillis.

[bigmonkey]

30. Oh, don't be silly!

That's the answer I'd like to give.

[Zhade]

49. Personal meaning? As ascribed by others?

My own godfree life is quite meaningful, to myself and those who know me.

[Meshuga]

52. If an atheist

feels his/her life has meaning then I think it shows that there is no need for God to give life meaning. So my answer is false.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

55. The flip side

I know Christians who believe their life has very little meaning.

[MistressOverdone]

53. I guess I really can't vote until

"God" is defined. I could find God in a stone.