I am thinking of leaving my church

[dsc]

My church had a corps of newer members who are gay or gay friendly. Over the course of the last few weeks nearly all of them have left the church entirely or at least resigned positions. I can't get over thinking it is a bit cowardly for me to leave but I am not sure I have much to stay for. Our pastor has left and with most of the newer members gone I feel a bit like fish out of water. Have any of you been in this position. Did you stay or did you go?

An edit to help clarify

Our church had almost 2 congregations. One a group of largely older, somewhat moderate to conservative people and one younger and more liberal (many gay or lesbian). In October, at our last evening service, two of us essentially came out at that service. One of the older members was vocally opposed and soon after our pastor announced his retirement. Since then we have had a fairly autocratic and quite conservative board chair who has alienated many people. Within the last month many of the younger more gay friendly members have left leaving mostly the moderate, conservative members. I am torn between staying and fighting and leaving.

[Critters2]

1. Why are they leaving? nt

[xchrom]

2. did you like your church before the new members?

i don't think i'm getting the whole story here -- but there are so many gay affirming churches any more that i know i wouldn't stay if i felt at all uncomfortable or angry or whatever.

but that's just me.

[Donnachaidh]

3. do you really want to stay in a group that obviously is not gay friendly?

Were these people forced out? I wouldn't have a problem with leaving a church that is chasing younger, more open people out.

[dsc]

4. They weren't forced out

but the actions that precipitated their leaving didn't help either.

[Donnachaidh]

12. just a thought -- does it ease YOUR conscience more

because *actions* that were not violent or extreme were done?

Isn't it more about the END RESULT? Many groups find ways to discriminate. The bottom line should be what YOU are judging the episode on.

Shunning people to get them to leave is STILL getting them to leave. What's the difference? You can be polite and still be a bigot.

What's the bottom line for YOU?

[Evoman]

5. What church is it?

Maybe you would feel more comfortable at another church? There is no reason you should have to sit in a building with people who don't accept who you are.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. Go with what feels right in your heart

I'm not gay, but I did leave my church, rather abruptly and publicly. It was during Sunday School. One of the other participants had asked me what I had been reading. "When Bad Things Happen To Good People", I replied. They made a comment that went something like this:"Jews like to make money off anything, don't they?" To this day, I don't know what came over me, but it was like Jesus throwing out the money changers at the Temple. I told the fellow that it was thinking like that that caused the Holocaust, and stormed out. The minister later phoned and asked for my apology, which I didn't give. I knew that that church was not an exact "fit" for me spiritually; the confrontation confirmed that. I went on a search, and found my niche-one where all faiths are respected, and all people are respected.

Hope this helps you decide. Seriously, go with what your heart feels--and tells you to do.

[Evoman]

7. I was at a youth group when somebody actually said the words

"dirty spic". I'm hispanic. Kudos to you for your restraint...I had the guy against the wall and threatened violence. There is no reason anybody should put up with racist/homophobic bullshit from people.

[raccoon]

21. Good for you. I guess he'll think twice before making such remarks after that. nt

[JerseygirlCT]

9. Asked YOU for an apology?

Those are some screwed up priorities there.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. I thought so, too

Now, at a psychic fair I was once told that in a former life I had been THROUGH the Holocaust--this reading was done after the church incident--but I found it interesting, never the less. I've never been interested in studying the history of WWII, so my reaction didn't come from that, either. Something else weird--I've been told by native German speakers that I speak German like someone from Hamburg--I've even been asked how many years I lived in Germany--and I've never been there. I just learned German in school.

[JerseygirlCT]

8. Opposed to you coming out?

Or just opposed to you in general? Wow. Yeah, he or she would have gotten a pleasant but pointed earful from me at that.

Do you have a new pastor yet? That might give you an idea about where things will stand.

I don't know. I left the Catholic Church b/c I couldn't stay angry all the time, and I couldn't raise my kids to think it's ok to treat women that badly. For me, it was better to switch than fight.

But if no one fights, then nothing changes, does it?

My best guess is you need some allies. If you won't have them, there won't be much you will accomplish, I'm afraid. But in the meantime, don't be afraid to speak up and out (nicely!). I'm always happily surprised by the people who come to me, glad I opened my big mouth.

[sneakythomas]

11. I've left a church

Actually a cult. I also commented recently on the 666 thread. I used to be a Jehovah's Witness. My wife and I did a lot of independent study and left them in 1988. (officially 1989). As a result many family and none of our friends would even speak to us.

I firmly believe that it is important to follow your heart on such matters. If they church you go to no longer meets your needs or fits your beliefs it is time to go some where else. Don't support something you don't believe in.

My $.02

[EvolveOrConvolve]

20. My story is similar

except that I left the Mormon church instead of the JW's. Instead of shunning us, my wife and I have been harassed by Mormon friends/neighbors/family members/etc. over the years. I'm not sure which would be worse - shunning or harassment.

Just thought I'd let you know that I empathize with your situation, and I hope things have gotten better for you.

BTW, welcome to DU! :hi:

[sneakythomas]

22. Hi, yes we have very similar experiences.

Life is good. My family was never witnesses and the inlaws have all also left (or died). We don't have a lot of issues any more. Somebody on an x-jw board I visit suggested that we challange the x-Mormons to a touch football game. It would probably be a fun get together.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

23. There's no way you could win

We have the magic underwear. :evilgrin:

:hi:

[kwassa]

13. We left a very liberal and gay-friendly church ....

not because it was liberal and gay-friendly, but because it was run by a small core of lifer layman that preached inclusion but refused to relinquish control or allow the church to grow or change in any way. The rector of six years is lesbian and living openly with her companion, who is also included in church. The rector is a good preacher, but not a great manager, and unwilling to confront these lay people, and not even see, to my knowledge, that there is a problem.

The result is that many of the longtime congregation that did the most service became the most alienated and left. We briefly thought of staying and fighting it out, but those two of the three layman control freaks are completely retired and work full time at the church, and the other works but devotes all outside time to the church. It would take a greater commitment than that to beat them out, and it just wasn't worth it. Church politics can be some of the worst around.

We left, and found a great, friendly, inclusive church closer to home.

[Evoman]

14. Were both churches episcopalian?

[kwassa]

15. Yes, they were both Episcopal churches.

[Evoman]

17. So why do you think two churches off the same faith are so different?

Is it tradition of a particular church? Is it the neighbourhood it is in? Is it the pastor, and the flock he/she brings in?

[kwassa]

18. It is the flawed human beings that run it.

[trotsky]

16. The is one of the best ways that liberal Christians can change things.

Let the dinosaur churches die out. Don't give them your money, time, or attention. I can't help but compare these situations to battered spouse syndrome.

[struggle4progress]

19. Ask yourself what you want from a church. Like any other group of people,

a church might be considered as a large family: there are the one you adore, the ones you can get along with, and the one who do nothing but drive you up the wall.

People go to church for all sorts of reasons: they hope to be righteous, they want company, they like the music, they look for moral instruction, they intend to grow ...

Frankly, no church will meet all criteria. I went to Catholic church where I live for many years because I liked what I heard from the pulpit (which was surprisingly progressive -- it included, for example, homilies against gay-bashing) and the rather contemporary service and music; I left because I decided I didn't entirely agree with their decisions about how to spend money. I really like the people at the church I attend now (despite often disagreeing with them), but the services are more traditional (although they vary the liturgy regularly).

[Manifestor_of_Light]

24. A totally accepting christian church - UCC

The only totally accepting christian church I know of is the very liberal Congregationalists (United Church of Christ).

They have NO connection with the Church of Christ as we know it in the south. The ones that don't allow music in church. They are uneducated almost holy rollers.

The Congregationalists were the Pilgrims that founded Harvard and Yale. They are the absolute left wing of Christianity.

If you want to go to a totally accepting church that isn't christian, check out the Unitarian-Universalists. They are also part of the liberal social activism that grew out of the anti-slavery/woman suffrage movement, and the transcendentalists such as Thoreau and Emerson.

Unitarians have a designation that congregations (churches and fellowships) can get as a "Welcoming Congregation". That means they state particularly that they welcome gay and lesbian and bi people.

More info:
www.uua.org

[gbate]

25. I don't really think you can describe an entire denomination as "totally accepting."

As nice as that sounds, it is not really an accurate assessment of things. I have been to a UCC church and they are all different. A church is comprised of people and not all people share the same views.

Describing an entire church as "gay friendly" is just as inaccurate, IMO. Sure, there may be rules in place for non-discrimination, but those rules cannot change the hearts and minds of its congregants.

Maybe you should go to the Metropolitan Community Church.