Why insult Christians during holy week?

[Swede]

We don't say faggot to gay men, we don't say nigger to Africanamericans, yet it seems ok to have this choclate Jesus.

[aquart]

1. Love your logic.

So, if I want to insult Christians (and I have good days and bad days about that), all I have to do is say, "Chocolate!"? Or do I need both words? "You chocolate Jesus!" What if I abbreviate and just say, "Hershey's!"

Did you know that chocolate bunny you Christians hand out is the Moon Hare? An insult to the earlier religion you stole it from?

Have a jelly egg.

[DemBones DemBones]

3. Come on, you know perfectly well that the artist

did this to insult Christians, create controversy, and make a name for himself, like the artist who made "Piss Christ" (a photo of a crucifix submerged in a jar of urine.)

A really brave, "edgy" artist would have created a chocolate image of Muhammad in the nude and displayed it during Ramadan, with people being invited to break off pieces of Sweet Chocolate Muhammad to eat.

[Hissyspit]

8. Actually, I have studied Andres Serrano's work in depth.

And your stereotypical explanation for his motivations could be described as "offensive" or "insulting."

Most of my Christian students think "Piss Christ" is a beautiful image, until they hear the title. And none of them can explain exactly what it is that is wrong with the title, which is accurately descriptive.

No, I don't "know perfectly well" that the artist did this to insult Christians (or people who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus, the main theme of which was tolerance, and hardly knee-jerk judgmentalism).

[saltpoint]

12. Another good point on Serrano. Yes.

The fluids in which Serrano depicts Jesus are bodily fluids, the very ones that have such tremendous definitional power over human lives. He does the one with the urine, one in "semen" -- some blend of milk and something or other -- and one in blood. At least those three.

It was explained to me that these are not "shock" fluids but should be thought of as universal fluids, the life-flow of our mortal paths. If Jesus is to be persuasive he must be human. He must cry and come and bleed and suffer in order to be worthy of delivering followers to some kind of redemption.

The paradox is that the fluids are expelled in the course of one's lifetime and that he lost his life relatively early, I guess in his young 30s.

It's a powerful work.

[BurtWorm]

32. Very well put, Old Crusoe.

That's exactly why outrage over naked Jesuses makes zero sense to me. It's knee-jerk horror at nakedness.

[saltpoint]

34. Hi, BurtWorm. Yes -- it does seem that the nakedness is the tripswitch

more than the medium.

Chocolate is not the traditional medium for depictions of Jesus, I realize, but food is the usual medium for Cavallaro.

So that kind of leaves us with the body as the source of the objection to this work.

[BurtWorm]

36. Possibly people are thinking he's reducing Jesus to Easter Bunny status

seeing as chocolate at Easter is associated with Easter bunnies. But to me, that just makes this work more interesting. Christians who are offended by it are not using their brains.

[saltpoint]

37. Yes, there are the commercial chocolate bunnies people eat. Our area

grocery and drug store are crammed with chocolate bunnies right now.

The rabbit imagery could be argued to come from the decidedly pre-Christian pagan world, a symbol of the fecund earth, of fertility, of the long-awaited spring, of renewal of the cycles.

The Resurrection is a "renewal," and may be more deeply connected to the pagan cycles than some would be comfortable with.

I don't sense that Cavallaro set out to heap scorn. The finished figure looks like the product of abject reverence to me.

[BurtWorm]

38. It certainly is beautiful.

I understand he was planning to break it up and feed it to people on Easter Monday. Would people be objecting to the idea of eating the body of Christ? :o

[saltpoint]

39. The eucharistic aspect is unexamined. There's a haunting beauty to it,

though. And it's not even a Christian concept, at least not exclusively:

“He who eats of my body and drinks of my blood shall have eternal life.”

--Jesus of Galilee, c. 30 C.E.


“He who eats of my body and drinks of my blood, so that he will be made one with me and I with him, the same shall know salvation.’”

--Zarathustra, c. six centuries before Jesus

[Solo_in_MD]

40. The difference in reaction would be telling

Its been my position here for some time that Islam and the Sharia are a much greater threat to human rights and progress that the Xtains. Thanks for pointing out another way that clearly demonstrates it.

[Hissyspit]

2. Artist is a Christian.

And a Catholic. Who says it's insulting?

[DemBones DemBones]

4. So he says. He also said

on CNN that "Chocolate is good and Jesus is good so how can two wrongs make a right, er, how can two rights make a wrong." Riiiiggggghhhhhtttt. Tell us another one.

He may have been raised Catholic, he may even go to Mass. But going into a Catholic church doesn't make you a good Catholic anymore than going into a garage makes you a car.

[Hissyspit]

5. So?

What exactly is a "good Catholic," anyway?

Even if he isn't a "good Catholic," what about the artwork makes it insulting?

Seems to me that depicting the traditional image of torture and humilation of Jesus of Nazareth by the Romans in a contemporarily-used and non-traditional media, one associated with sensuality, pleasure, Easter, and love is a contrast that would be good for Christian viewers to ponder.

[Evoman]

6. Lol

A movie made by an anti-semitic crazy man where Jesus is tortured...

LETS TAKE THE KIDS.

Chocolate Jesus....

STOP INSULTING US CHRISTIANS.


MAn...everyday, its like I understand religious people less and less.

[Swede]

7. Your still here Evo.

I here that Brandon needs a pizza parlor.

[Evoman]

9. Your still here Swede?

Why hasn't someone unplugged you yet?

[Swede]

10. I 'm still here Evo.

I have no interest in playing games.

[Evoman]

11. Games are fun.

Just not when you can't win.

*waves swede away*

[Swede]

13. No games Evo.

Really.

[Evoman]

14. Look back, cool cat.

You'll notice that you started it with you pizza parlour comment.

[Swede]

15. I did so.

Sorry.

[saltpoint]

16. Hey you guys. Could you step over to the other thread, please?

People are lonesome over there. There's weeping and wailing.

The dog's depressed.

Please come back.

[Swede]

21. My plate is full Evo.

I will give you this,my upline runs Phillie.

[Zenlitened]

31. Excellent point

A movie made by an anti-semitic crazy man where Jesus is tortured...

LETS TAKE THE KIDS.

Chocolate Jesus....

STOP INSULTING US CHRISTIANS.

[BurtWorm]

33. Jesus "appears" in mold and rust on a highway underpass. "It's a MIRACLE!!!"

Jesus in chocolate. "It's an INSULT!!!"

Real sensible religion that Christianity. :sarcasm:

[Skittles]

17. I am guessing this has to be a joke

I cannot imagine that someone's faith could be so easily shaken by a chocolate Jesus

[saltpoint]

18. It's going on on 2 different threads, Skittles -- identical and both

going strong. It's hard to say what's happening.

We're in a kind of mystery fog on both threads, waiting to see what's going to happen.

[Swede]

19. Let's flash some swastikas to those week Jews. They can take it.

I mean come on.

[saltpoint]

20. Hold on, I'm pro-Jewish. Relatives escaping the Nazis in the 30s. You

know the score.

Your point isn't analogous, Swede. Cavallarro did not attempt to debase or denigrate an ethnic group.

If your objection to his work is religious, you should stick with that argument.

[Skittles]

22. LOL

put down the pipe and get some sleep

[saltpoint]

23. The other thread is here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=118970&mesg_id=118970

[Skittles]

24. I just don't get it at all

I eat chocolate easter eggs, chocolate bunnies, chocolate everything, and I never thought the object depicted was being denigrated

[saltpoint]

25. Same here. I'm just not that fragile. The people doing the yelping

over that chocolate sculpture might want to read the paper or look at a newscast once in a while.

Turns out, we're at war in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the economy more or less sucks, and the Department of Justice is packed with thieves.

But nevermind that when someone sculpts Jesus out of chocolate!

[Skittles]

26. I'm beginning to think it's not chocolate that bothers them, it's BROWN

:o

[saltpoint]

27. Could be. For some people objecting, it might be about race.

I thought it might be also about his nakedness.

They don't specifically deny that Jesus likely had a penis. But on the other hand they get very squeamish if its depicted.

[sam sarrha]

28. could have avoided this whole piss fight if he'd used White Chocolate

[Skittles]

30. it's just a feeling I'm getting

they're sooooo f***ing outraged it just has to be about more than chocolate :o

[Random_Australian]

29. Ok, I'm missing somethiing. Please explain to me, exactly which part of making

this statue of Jesus offensive?

Yes, I realise you're offended. I'm asking why.

Is there something silly about chocolate to you?

Is there something wrong with the anatomy bieng correct?

Also, would you please state the first four words that come to your mind when you think "chocolate" ?

Because it seems there is some serious miscommunication going on here, and I would like to resolve it. :)

[Zenlitened]

35. I'm on the same page. Why is this statue automatically deemed "offensive"?

Why, exactly is "My Sweet Lord" insulting or offensive? One right-winger decided to be offended, went public with it, and now the statue is simply presumed to be offensive at the start of any discussion.

Makes no sense. Even I, one of those "atheist fundamentalists" you hear so much about :eyes:, can see a connection to the "Take, eat, this is my body..." communion thing. I don't think it would be terribly hard to construct an argument that the artist is making a positive statement, or perhaps simply a statement, nuetral until we as viewers impose our own agendas on it.

Is it provacative? Or is it better described as thought-provoking? The former assumes an agenda. The latter is simply... what art is.

[Goblinmonger]

43. I'm with you

I, personally, see the whole Jesus myth to be a not-so-hot rip off of Homer and some other epic hero writers, but this particular display is kinda cool given the mythology. The other thread with this same name indicates that the artist plans to cut the statue into pieces and feed it to people on Monday after Easter. THAT is metaphorically cool given Matthew's recounting of the last supper.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

41. It's a chocolate man.

I don't see what's demeaning about a chocolate man. Perhaps if this were Islam, where graven images of Muhammad and Allah are forbidden, I could understand, but you can't tell me Christians don't often have graven images of Jesus up the wazoo as it is.

[Goblinmonger]

42. pssst

you can see his peepee.