Conservative Rabbis to Vote on Resolution Criticizing Pope’s Revision of Prayer

[BridgeTheGap]

The revision of a contentious Good Friday prayer approved this week by Pope Benedict XVI could set back Jewish-Catholic relations, Conservative Judaism’s international assembly of rabbis says in a resolution to be voted on next week.

The prayer calls for God to enlighten the hearts of Jews “so that they may acknowledge Jesus Christ, the savior of all men.”

The draft resolution states the prayer would “cast a harsh shadow over the spirit of mutual respect and collaboration that has marked these past four decades, making it more difficult for Jews to engage constructively in dialogue with Catholics.”

On Tuesday, the pope released new wording for the prayer, part of the traditional Latin, or Tridentine, Mass.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/09/us/09prayer.html?th&emc=th

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. God, enlighten the hearts of Christians

so that they can truly follow the commandment of Christ to love their neighbors as themselves.

[knitter4democracy]

7. Amen and amen.

Sheesh! Is Pope Maledict trying to start another Crusdade?!

[Xipe Totec]

2. Paging Torquemada... n/t

[CatholicEdHead]

3. The change is not enough

New one:
An unofficial translation of the new prayer reads: “Let us pray for the Jews. May the Lord Our God enlighten their hearts so that they may acknowledge Jesus Christ, the savior of all men.”

Old one:

Before the Second Vatican Council, also known as Vatican II, the Good Friday Mass in Latin prayed for the conversion of Jews, referring to their “blindness” and calling upon God to “lift a veil from their hearts.”

Yet the Latin Mass lovers are in the ascendancy now with an open ear, plus he wants to bring the SSPX back in.

It is sad but the more they turn the clock back the more irrelevant the entire Church will become in the world. :( .

[Silent3]

4. Turning the clock back...

...unfortunately seems to work very well for American fundamentalists. Maybe that's the kind of result the Pope is hoping for.

[struggle4progress]

5. Covenant with the Jews (The Tablet: 9 Feb 08)

The German theologian, Johannes Baptist Metz, once posed the rhetorical question: was it any longer possible to pray "with one's back turned to Auschwitz"? He felt that the immensity of suffering and evil inflicted on the Jews in the Holocaust, for which Christianity itself had to accept some responsibility, had implications for almost every detail of Christian theology and worship. It is instructive to apply Professor Metz's test to Pope Benedict's revised Tridentine Rite prayer for the Good Friday liturgy ...

... why did the Pope reject the ideal solution proposed last year by his own Secretary of State, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, that the Tridentine Rite should use at this point the same prayer as the normative Roman Rite? That nuanced text describes the Jewish people as "the first to hear the word of God" and prays that they "may arrive at the fullness of redemption".

Both the Tridentine Rite prayer and its replacement belong to a different theological era ... Disrespect and contempt .. seemed to be justified by Christian doctrine. Nostra Aetate halted all that, making it tantamount to heresy, for instance, to blame Jews living today for the death of Jesus ...

... one of the most significant achievements of the Second Vatican Council is at risk.

http://www.thetablet.co.uk/articles/10982/
via http://www.americamagazine.org/blog/entry.cfm?blog_id=2&id=F689DD4A-3048-887F-8F1A4569586942B2

[JerseygirlCT]

24. Well yes. But this lot in power has never been too keen on

Vatican II, have they?

I can't imagine much of US R. Catholicism going very far along this road. It might get interesting... or just whimper out, I don't know.

Then again, I haven't been RC in many years, so I'm no authority on the current state of the US church!

[Midwest_Doc]

6. The pope is nostalgic for ...

his days as a member of Hitler Youth

[ZombieHorde]

8. The desire to convert...

The desire to convert others is a common element in many religions. The Latin Mass does not seem like an insult to me.

[JerseygirlCT]

10. It's partly about insult and a lot about history

"prayers" like that one were often used to stir up anti-semitism and motivate the "faithful" to torture and kill Jews. It's scary to see them there, as we all know that anti-semitism is still thriving.

Instead of respect, this pope offers his usual arrogance.

[ZombieHorde]

12. I don't believe that this is about history.

I believe that this is about the present and tradition. Membership in the Catholic church is starting to decline, they hope to revitalize Catholics by bringing back a beautiful mass ceremony.


(edit for silly spelling)

[JerseygirlCT]

17. I think I wasn't clear.

I think for the Jews protesting, this *is* partly about history. When your people have been subjected to the horrors they have, words like these are understandably frightening.

And yes, I think the ultra-conservatives that run the RCC (thanks to JPII and his stacking the deck, so to speak, with them) feel all comfie cozy with the old language that allows them to pat themselves on the back and feel all superior. They're only comfortable with absolutes.

The Mass is no less beautiful when the disrespectful prayer for the conversion of the Jews is eliminated. Replacing it may satisfy some RCs, but it will also cause pain and increase barriers between two faiths that ought to be working toward mutual respect and understanding.

[ZombieHorde]

19. Horrors of the past.

I think I wasn't clear.

I am probably just a little dim tonight.

I think for the Jews protesting, this *is* partly about history. When your people have been subjected to the horrors they have, words like these are understandably frightening.

You may be right. Though I am still not convinced that the motives of the RCC are anti-semitic. I believe that they are trying to revitalize interest in church attendance.

And yes, I think the ultra-conservatives that run the RCC (thanks to JPII and his stacking the deck, so to speak, with them) feel all comfie cozy with the old language that allows them to pat themselves on the back and feel all superior. They're only comfortable with absolutes.

Are atheists, Pagans, Mormons, etc. really that much different in feeling superior? Judging from many of the threads on this board, I will guess no.

The Mass is no less beautiful when the disrespectful prayer for the conversion of the Jews is eliminated. Replacing it may satisfy some RCs, but it will also cause pain and increase barriers between two faiths that ought to be working toward mutual respect and understanding.

That's a good point.

edit for spelling

[JerseygirlCT]

20. Oh believe me, I don't think those ultra-conservative RCs

have any corner on the arrogance market. And I know many wonderful Roman Catholics, having been raised as one, and being one of those people who loves her family, lol. But I think there's a particular strain, well-represented by Benedict, who are not driven by anything but a dogmatic need for authority and the confirmation that they are indeed correct and no one else is.

And I don't think the RCC motives now are necessarily anti-semitic (although unfortunately, that ugly disease is far from wiped out). But I think those receiving this news (the conservative Jews in the OP, for instance) and this development are fearful of its effect on those who *are* anti-semitic.

[ZombieHorde]

22. I don't know what to put for a subject line.

And I know many wonderful Roman Catholics, having been raised as one, and being one of those people who loves her family, lol.

Same boat. I was even born in NJ.

fearful of its effect on those who *are* anti-semitic

Hmmm...I did not think of that. Hopefully the vast majority of those who know Latin are too smart to be anti-semitic.

[Book Lover]

11. Try participating in such a Mass

In context of the Mass, it's just an awful thing to say. Put it this way: no other religions are included any Catholic prayers, in Mass or outside. Hmmm, wonder why that is..

[ZombieHorde]

13. "Hmmm, wonder why that is.."

The answer is simple, who else can be saved? Heathens burn.

[Book Lover]

14. Protestants, for one

Prayers are included in the Mass to "heal the rift" of the Reformation. I also feel safe asserting that in a few decades, a prayer for the conversion of the muslim people will be placed in Mass as well (at least discussed within the hierarchy). Actually, now that I say that, I take it back a little. Since such a prayer was never included in the tridentine rites, the current pope probably wouldn't want to stain the purity of that form of Mass.

[ZombieHorde]

15. I don't understand your point

Protestants already have Christ in their hearts.

Prayers are included in the Mass to "heal the rift" of the Reformation.

I see nothing wrong with that.

[Book Lover]

16. Sorry to be unclear

My point in that post is that catholics have prayers to convert both protestants and jews to roman catholicism. Healing the rift of the reformation actually means have the protestants give up their singular, wayward ways and come back into the RCC, including accepting their place in the catholic pyramid (i.e., accept the supremacy of the pontiff as the only possible, Christ-chosen head of the christian faith).

[ZombieHorde]

18. Oh, I see.

convert both protestants and jews to roman catholicism

protestants give up their singular, wayward ways and come back into the RCC

Though I don't necessarily believe that it is a good thing to convert to Roman Catholicism, most religions desire converts. I don't think that this is inherently hateful.

[JerseygirlCT]

21. It's not hateful. It is often arrogant.

I know, coming now from a tradition that sort of straddles R. Catholic and Protestant, that we Epsicopalians don't think in terms of bringing those RCs to see the (reformed) light, or yanking those wayward Methodists back to our way of seeing things.

We accept our differences, and tend to focus on our similarities. I just think that's a far better way to go!

[ZombieHorde]

23. differences

We accept our differences, and tend to focus on our similarities. I just think that's a far better way to go!

Agreed!

[pingzing58]

25. The issue was settled when Roman Catholic theology affirmed that the Jewish people are the children

of the Covenant with God and it is irrevocable (1964). Jesus did not revoke God's covenant with his people. As Christians we believe that Jesus fulfills the covenant ("I have not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it"). Further we believe that Jesus embodies the covenant and is our intermediary between God and his creation (book of Hebrews). When the Pope quotes Peter (that all must profess the name of Jesus Christ and be baptized at Pentecost, the sacred science of hermeneutics teaches us that, the writer of the book of acts "redacted" or edited that speech. It is very unfortunate that the prayer for the Jewish people (on Good Friday) as it appears in the translated missal of Paul VI, the one we use regularly was not used to revise the Tridentine prayer for the perfidious jews.

[Book Lover]

26. Yes, I remember being taught all that

I was raised roman catholic, went to catholic school for 12 years, and nearly joined the Carmelites. But when confronted with the prayer in the missal as a little girl (I can even see the page in my mind's eye) I remember feeling just awful, like I was sapped of strength or something. What a cruel prayer!

[JerseygirlCT]

9. Benedict. Ugh.

That's all. He and his crusading (yes, an intentional word choice) conservatives will be the ruin of the RCC, and will cause untold harm to many the world 'round.