UCF Catholic Group Faces Hazing Charges For Protecting 'Body Of Christ'

[struggle4progress]

POSTED: 10:23 pm EDT July 13, 2008
UPDATED: 4:57 pm EDT July 14, 2008

... Student Government Senator Webster Cook ... said his hazing complaint cited a UCF anti-hazing policy banning the forced consumption of any food in which the initiation or admission into or affiliation with a University of Central Florida organization may be directly or indirectly conditioned ...

Cook also filed charges accusing the Catholic club of violating the school's underage alcohol policy by serving communal wine to underage students ...

Previously, Diocese of Orlando Spokesperson Carol Brinati confirmed Catholic students filed charges of disruptive conduct with UCF administrators against Cook and a friend of his attending Mass with him on June 29 for their "disrespectful" behavior. Privacy laws prohibit UCF from discussing details of that case, but Cook's friend told Channel 9 he checked with school officials, who told him to expect his charges to move through the system soon ...

Cook is also facing a more public set of charges filed by one of his peers in UCF's Student Government Association. SGA Officer Anthony Furbush filed an impeachment affidavit against Cook claiming Cook violated SGA ethics when he announced he was an SGA official during Mass and cited that reason, along with the fact Mass was held in a public campus hall, as why he didn't have to leave when asked ...

http://www.wftv.com/news/16872192/detail.html

From Cook's complaint (via pdf link at site above):

7. Hazing ... I attempted to affiliate myself with the Catholic Campus Ministry. In the process of doing so, I was forced to consume a food item. This clearly constitutes a “forced”
activity and therefore a violation of this rule.

11. Alcoholic Beverages Violation ... During the Catholic Campus Ministry’s communion ceremony, wine was offered to an entire group of students, the majority of whom are under twenty-one years of age. The wine was also given to a number of obvious minors. Serving alcohol to anyone under twenty-one years of age is against the law ...

A nice discussion of the whole sorry mess from one Catholic's perspective is:

Prof. Meyers, Webster Cook, and the Eucharist
http://nickmilne.wordpress.com/2008/07/14/prof-meyers-webster-cook-and-the-eucharist/

[Cronus Protagonist]

1. I think the wine is probably non-alcoholic

And the wafers are, well, let's just say even a starving person wouldn't call that "food".

It's a funny prank, though. :P

[Goblinmonger]

3. I'll take your bet on the wine.

The only time that Catholics use non-alcholic wine (that I have heard of) is when the priest is an alcoholic. Otherwise it is real wine.

[SCantiGOP]

5. right about the wine

it's weak and watered down, but it does contain alcohol.

[CatholicEdHead]

17. The wine is real

It varies what type you use. Some official types want "pure" wine (nothing artificial) but transubstantiation dogma fits for all types of wine, boxed included.

[beam me up scottie]

2. oh the humanity

[MountainLaurel]

8. OT, but fabulous image there! n/t

[Goblinmonger]

4. I skimmed the article/blog you linked to

I had no desire to read it all word for word. I have two reactions:

1. What is up with the "girl half his weight" bullshit? So because he was bigger, she wasn't trying to detain him? Also seems like a backdoor (pun intended) attack on his manliness because he was threatened by a girl.

2. Why does this person act like the Catholic cannon has ANY impact on non-Catholics? OMG, Myers will be excommunicated. Well THAT should stop him.

[cosmik debris]

6. Didn't you even wonder

What the Catholics did with the cracker after they got it back?

I can't imagine anyone eating it after it had been in the hands of the infidel.

Do the Catholics have an incantation that makes the cracker "not god anymore"?

If it is still god, how do you dispose of it?

Jesus in the garbage disposal?

Jesus in the compost pile?

Jesus in the land fill?

Flush Jesus down the toilet?

It looks like the problem for the Catholics is worse now than it was before. They are stuck with a piece of Jesus and they can't get rid of it.

[Meshuga]

9. That was the first thing that popped up in my head

What do you do with the Eucharist after it had been all over the place? Give it to another unsuspecting person? Throw it out? It cannot be disposed otherwise what would be the point of getting it back?

[cosmik debris]

10. I guess they have to give it a decent funeral

But what if it comes back after three days?

[Goblinmonger]

12. There are pretty strict rules

about how to dispose of a consecrated host. I have forgotten what those are. I do remember that each church is to have a sink that drains straight (without a trap) into the earth and not the sewer system. This sink is used for washing the chalice and other items that have come in contact with consecrated hosts and wine.

[NickMilne]

11. I wrote the article/blog he linked to

I don't blame you for skimming it. It's pretty long.

1. The "girl half his weight bullshit" is there because that's what has been reported. Cook has made great hay of how he was subjected to violence and force and whatnot, but given the source from which this violence and force seem to have come his complaints look asinine. This is especially important from a purely factual standpoint as well, given that many news reports simply refer to her as "a woman," which, coupled with his status as "a student," tends to carry with it the mental image of a young male being accosted by a mature woman. That's certainly how I pictured it when I first read about this. As such an image would not be accurate at all, evidence refuting it should be presented.

I have no opinion whatever as to his manliness, though you're right that what's there could be taken as an insult. I'll make a note to clarify that.

2. At no point is Prof. Meyers threatened with excommunication (which would be, as you say, quite absurd); it is rather Webster Cook who stands so threatened. This is not to say that any clerical figure has literally threatened to excommunicate him, of course; the excommunication of which he stands in danger is that which occurs latae sententiae - that is, by his own doing (the alternative is ferendae senentiae, which deals with judgments to be made later). Cook could face this under Canon 1367, pursuant to http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2120.htm">CCC 2120, but it all depends on whether what he did was sacrilege or not. We'll see.

This is only a possibility, though; whatever punishment befalls him (if any) will be largely dependent upon how aware he was of the possible consequences at the time he did it.

Thanks for reading, anyway, at least to the extent that you did.

[Goblinmonger]

13. Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

I appreciate you rethinking the description. I would imagine that, legally, it wouldn't matter her size but her intent in trying to "falsely imprison" him, per se.

I graduated from a high school Catholic seminary (and have landed far from there in the past 25 years.) and am well aware of the different forms and reasons for excommunication. We had a student at the seminary take a consecrated host and burn it when I was in the seminary and there were many weeks of lessons/discussions about it (loved my Jesuit priest/teacher at that time). I guess I missed the fact that Cook was a Catholic. If he was, as he claimed initially, trying to take the host to show his non-catholic friend (though a better way would have been to ask the priest for a non-consecrated one, I will admit), then I doubt he knew the problem with that and had the intent necessary for a latae excommunication. For what my two cents are worth.

[NickMilne]

14. You're welcome

I'm glad you know what's going on with that, then; you never can tell on the internet. I'm also glad to hear that your previous Catholic education actually seems to have been a thorough one rather than the warmed-over mush that so many tend to get these days. Anyway, people who land far from where they start are fine by me; just shows that the initial throw was a good one.

And yeah, yours is a pretty fair assessment of the situation. I'm sure that the priest or the associate minister would have been happy to just show the guy the host if that's all he wanted to see, but it doesn't really look like that's why Cook and his friend were there at all.

I'm also inclined to agree that he didn't know that there were potential canonical consequences to his actions. I am much less ready to believe, however, that he honestly thought there was nothing wrong with what he was doing at all. But who knows? I don't know the guy. It would be astonishing if he really thought that, but not, technically, impossible.

Thanks again for the comments.

[varkam]

7. Good grief, s4p.

This really set you off, didn't it?

[trotsky]

23. No doubt!

So mad that he decided to link atheists & Satanists over the issue.

[struggle4progress]

24. To ridicule people, cheer the disruption of their religious services, and promote the desecration of

materials they hold sacred -- merely because one does not share their beliefs -- is indeed satanic in my mind: this is independent of my particular religious beliefs

I know many atheists who would not stoop to that level. In this forum, I am sorry to encounter some who do stoop so low

[trotsky]

25. Ridiculing *people* vs. ridiculing *beliefs*

A lot of folks evidently have a problem seeing the difference and so must lash out and make false accusations.

[varkam]

30. You satanist, you.

:eyes:

[cyborg_jim]

26. Things should be descrated on a regular basis

Everybody should be reminded on a regular basis that they DO NOT have the right to be unoffended.

[varkam]

29. And the truth comes out.

Thanks for playing, s4p!

[knitter4democracy]

15. Interesting. I wonder how the college will handle it.

It's definitely wine, so there is an issue there, though I wonder if the college's policy had a religious exemption written into it. Hazing is even more interesting.

I wonder if this is why OCF groups tend not to have liturgy on campus but instead just dinner meetings.

[struggle4progress]

16. probably falls under florida statutes 564.03

[rug]

18. Cook is an ass.

Transubstantiation aside, suppose, during the ceremony, he stole a candle instead of a host? I'd kick his ass for that.

A priest has to eat that host now. The sacrarium is only for particles and water.

[knitter4democracy]

19. I wouldn't.

You never know what God will do through a candle, let alone the Host. There are stories, granted from a long time ago, of miracles.

[struggle4progress]

20. It's common to be an ass at that age: I know I and most of my friends were, but

luckily for us our asininity did not garner any national attention (though we would have indeed been thrilled if it had). One always hopes people outgrow it

[cosmik debris]

21. You couldn't just call the police?

That is the way most of us deal with non-violent crimes against property.

What is so important about the church's candles that you need to violate the law and the commandments to protect them?

Resorting to violence may be part of your tradition, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do.

[trotsky]

22. Strange, isn't it, how the claimed followers of the "Prince of Peace"...

are often so quick to violence. But that's OK, they can just ask for forgiveness and all is well.

[rug]

28. I consider it an assist in turning his other cheek.

I understand, given your namesake, your aversion to violence.

[trotsky]

31. I'm sure Jesus is proud of you. n/t

[rug]

33. Reconstruct the Fourth International.

[rug]

27. I rarely call the police.

[cosmik debris]

32. And I rarely assault people

I guess we just have different values.

[rug]

34. Depends on how rarely, doesn't it.

[cosmik debris]

35. No, I'm pretty sure we just have different values.

[struggle4progress]

36. UCF Student To Face Ethics Hearing Over Eucharist Controversy

POSTED: 1:11 pm EDT July 16, 2008
UPDATED: 1:13 pm EDT July 16, 2008

... Channel 9 is hearing from the catholic group student Webster Cook accused of assaulting him to recover the Eucharist. The church group says Cook lied to the media about being Catholic and came to disrupt their service by accusing Catholics of worshipping the devil during mass ...

http://www.wftv.com/news/16900432/detail.html

[Meshuga]

38. Well

According to Webster Cook's father he is a Catholic. So the accusation that he is not a catholic is false. There seems to be a campaign to smear Webster Cook in order to make him pay for what he did. Even his personal information has been posted, so his life may potentially be in danger.

He has apologized so isn't this going too far now?

[struggle4progress]

39. It's a TV news report, which doesn't seem hysterical or overheated to me

If you think the report is endangering his life, you can ask the station to take it down, or if you think this thread is endangering his life you can ask the mods to lock or delete it

The Catholics I've known have been peaceful people -- but perhaps I don't know them all

Whether the kid is a Catholic or not is entirely beyond my ability, duty, or desire to discern -- though I've never seen anything like the alleged behavior at a service, and if there is any Catholic tradition of complaining that services violated underage drinking laws or involved harassment by forced eating, then I'm afraid I'm completely unaware of it

As I've said before, I consider everyone involved in this to be something of a moron: the kid, Donohue, Myers and his whole nasty retinue of sneering baboons, and so on

[Meshuga]

40. That's not what I am saying

I think you are reading too much between the lines here and being too dramatic. I am commenting on the situation as a whole, not the report or you or the thread. The Catholics I known are very peaceful people that is why this is surprising.

But I question the people who won't let this go after Webster Cook has apologized for what happened. Obviously, your thread and the report cause no harm, but the blog I linked to had to delete people posting the guy's personal info and the posting of Webster Cook's personal information to me is more disturbing than desecrating the Eucharist, the Star of David, or any religious symbol for that matter.

And I would add the people who attended the service to the list of schmucks since they are taking this too far with their accusations. We can also include the other people (Catholic and non-Catholic) who are still hung up on this and are smearing Webster Cook even after he has apologized.

That's my two cents. Take it for what is worth.

[struggle4progress]

37. UCF Senate acts to impeach student over Mass incident

Luis Zaragoza | Sentinel Staff Writer
July 17, 2008

... <A University of Central Florida student Senate> panel voted 5-2 Wednesday to start the impeachment process against Webster Cook for allegedly violating ethics rules during a confrontation with the service's organizers ...

UCF announced Wednesday that it had dismissed the complaint Cook filed against the Catholic Campus Ministry, which sponsors a weekly service in the Student Union. Cook had alleged personal abuse, hazing and alcohol-policy violations, claiming he was grabbed and that the sacramental wine offered during the service should not have been allowed. School officials didn't find enough evidence to pursue his complaint.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/community/news/ucf/orl-wafer1708jul17,0,3099956.story