This is why so many of us have problems with Christians

[dsc]

http://projects.newsobserver.com/under_the_dome/senate_backs_up_on_bullying

The Senate will not vote on a controversial anti-bullying proposal today that references sexual orientation, said a senator who worked on the bill.

Sen. Doug Berger, a Franklin County Democrat, said he expected the compromise that had been crafted to be dropped from today’s schedule.

"We just don’t have enough votes at this time," Berger said.

Socially conservative groups, including the N.C. Family Policy Council and the Christian Action League, were working hard to scuttle the proposal, which includes references to sexual orientation, masculinity and femininity.

end of quote

This literally breaks my heart. I won't be specific but let's just say I know why such a bill would be needed. I wish Christ would save us from these Christians.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rox63]

2. WWJB - Who would Jesus bully? n/t

[earthlover]

8. whom

[BOSSHOG]

3. One has to wonder where children learn to bully

those perceived to be non-heterosexual, non-christian, non-republicans. In their christian homes or in their christian churches. And just think, they can grow up to join organizations that would "scuttle" efforts to stop their antichristian behavior. Praise the Lord!

[aspergris]

14. they don't need to learn it

It's a pretty natural behavior. Kids are naturally ruthless.

[knitter4democracy]

24. They do learn it at home.

I was constantly surprised at college how many of my peers hated our LBGT brothers and sisters. I'd been raised not to see any differences, so I was shocked at the horrible things I saw and heard--all done supposedly in the name of the faith.

[SacredCow]

4. Typical....

because fear and bullying are their weapons of choice- no way they're going to want to get rid of it. I'm sure their view is something akin to "If we made sure that at least ONE little homo gets bullied on the playground, we've done a good thing."

[Glorfindel]

5. I know, too...

And I share your sentiments. The trouble with Christianity is that it actually has never been tried, especially by those who sin in His name.

[SidneyCarton]

6. Agreed.

There is no excuse for bullying, regardless of the nature of the target, this bill should be allowed to pass, there is no Christian reason why it shouldn't.

[aspergris]

15. I'm against the bill

Why? Because I'm against kneejerk legislation and criminalizing everything under the sun. It doesn't solve problems.

I fully support homosexual rights- gay marriage included.

I don't support "bullying" laws whether against heterosexuals or homosexuals.

Frankly, the only thing a bully understands is firm resistance and if that doesn't work, a punch in the mouth.

That's how I was taught to deal with being bullied, and that's what I see works with kids.

But criminalizing people being jerks and stuff just gives prosecutors another political tool and adds one more law that we really don't need

We have laws against assault, we have laws against threats. What aspect of bullying besides assaults and threats do we need to criminalize.

I am GENERALLY against expanding the criminal code, ESPECIALLY the federal criminal code. We already have a drug war run amok, etc.

If you see somebody being bullied, stick up for them

and if the bullying results in assault or criminal threats then IT IS ALREADY ILLEGAL

[dsc]

16. the fact is too many people don't take it seriously

Unless weapons are involved or serious injury occurs no court will get involved in school related activity. If teachers aren't told to protect gay students, some won't.

[aspergris]

17. generally speaking

i don't think courts SHOULD get involved in school related activity, and I include minor assaults, and that type of stuff.

It's like using a howitzer on an ant.

and it's not about protecting gay students. It's about protecting ALL students, regardless of sexual orientation.

I went to a quaker school. Quakers are pacifists. We STILL had a bully or two, and the only thing that worked was standing up to them

Again, threats and assault are illegal. Schools have far more discretion to deal with that than the courts do AND a lesser standard of evidence, to boot.

No teacher is going to sit idly by while a student is assaulted. And in this day and age, every kid has a frigging video camera in their cell phone. If there is an actual crime committed, there's gonna be 10 kids ready to videotape it, as youtube so amply shows. Morons film their OWN escapades and incriminate themselves.

[dsc]

19. the problem is if you defend yourself you get suspended

Nearly all schools have as a policy that if you through a punch, even in self defense, you get suspended. Thus a student who is trying to be sure to go to college and thus needing a good record literally can't defend themselves without a major penalty.

[aspergris]

20. unfortunately, that is sometimes true

those zero tolerance policies are ridiculous. solution. punch the kid off campus! :)

[DeSwiss]

21. Define "kneejerk."

And while you're at it, explain to me why laws should be frozen in time and never change. Or E X P A N D E D? If laws hadn't changed, we'd still be stoning people for adultery. If laws hadn't E X P A N D E D, there'd be no civil rights laws for minorities and women.

I think that a law is needed at the federal level because none of the states will ever pass a uniform law. Which is why until recently, the age of marital consent in Utah was 14. And of course if we wait on the states, none of the southern RED STATES would ever pass such laws. No southern preacher would allow it.

Everyone isn't as brave as you purport to be. Not everyone feels they can become the Karate Kid and beat the bad guy to the sounds of the cheering crowd. This isn't Hollywood, its real. Children are dying.

And tell me who was the young teen girl from Missouri who hung herself after an adult conspired to berate her and tear her down, and ridicule her all over the internets, who was she supposed to punch in the mouth? What about the 11 year old boy who was pushed down the stairs at his Middle School, and is now paralyzed for life. Who's mouth should he punch? And after punching it, will he walk again?

- This is a more complex issue than any law can ever address, but its a start. Because to do nothing, is just complicity.

[aspergris]

22. as below

"And while you're at it, explain to me why laws should be frozen in time and never change. Or E X P A N D E D? If laws hadn't changed, we'd still be stoning people for adultery. If laws hadn't E X P A N D E D, there'd be no civil rights laws for minorities and women."

read what I said. Im *generally* against expanding the CRIMINAL code. iow, making MORE stuff illegal.

that has exactly zero to do with expanding CIVIL RIGHTS.

making more "stuff" criminal does not expand civil rights.

getting rid of laws that ok'd stoning people foradultery etc. didn't EXPAND the criminal code and make MORE stuff illegal. It made less stuff illegal, specifically adultery.


"I think that a law is needed at the federal level because none of the states will ever pass a uniform law. Which is why until recently, the age of marital consent in Utah was 14. And of course if we wait on the states, none of the southern RED STATES would ever pass such laws. No southern preacher would allow it."

so what? it's not a FEDERAL issue.

fwiw, i used to live hawaii. the age of consent was 14, too. so what? it's 14 in canada last i checked, too.

"Everyone isn't as brave as you purport to be. Not everyone feels they can become the Karate Kid and beat the bad guy to the sounds of the cheering crowd. This isn't Hollywood, its real. Children are dying."

they don't die from bullying. show me one autopsy report. seriously. you can die from assault (illegal), but not bullying. bullying is being mean. school admins can ADMINISTRATIVELY handle kids that are mean etc. but being mean is not a CRIMINAL matter. It shouldn't be.

and thankfully, it isn't

"And tell me who was the young teen girl from Missouri who hung herself after an adult conspired to berate her and tear her down, and ridicule her all over the internets, who was she supposed to punch in the mouth? What about the 11 year old boy who was pushed down the stairs at his Middle School, and is now paralyzed for life. Who's mouth should he punch? And after punching it, will he walk again?"?

thank you for bringing that up. there was an excellent discussion at volokh.com over the RIDICULOUS KNEEJERK UNCONSTITUTIONAL and FREE SPEECH INFRINGING law that was proposed ex-post the kid killing herself. what that lady did to the kid was civilly actionable. not criminal. and the law that was proposed BLATANTLY violated the 1st amendment. i could google the link if you are interested in hearing from some very learned lawyers about how ridiculous the response/law was.

as for being pushed down the stairs. that's illegal. it's called ASSAULT

again, there are already laws against assault. threats. there aren't (and shouldn't be) overreaching kneejerk law criminalizing being mean, which is what bullying legislature is.

the law is a blunt instrument, and should not be used carelessly or expected to solve every problem.

it can't and doesn't.

there IS no "federal uniform law" (nor should there be) that applies to assaults in school. nor SHOULD there be.

and there shouldn't be a law at all against bullying.

assault yes? threats? yes. and there are

[DeSwiss]

25. Well...

...if you're going to use a caveat like "generally" in this instance, then I generally agree that we shouldn't make "everything under the sun" illegal. As you say.

But in point of fact, the criminal code was indeed expanded with civil rights legislation. Laws against behavior specific to racial discrimination crimes were ADDED. When I came to the south in 1965 there were still placed where Jim Crow signs were hanging on the walls. Today, that sign would land someone in jail, as it should.

If you want evidence that children are indeed dying, then apparently you missed my other post. So here's a few links:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20080715/cm_usatoday/bullyingsdayincourt
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/education/sfl-schoolshootings.map,0,208678.mapmashup
http://www.secretservice.gov/ntac/chicago_sun/case15.htm

And more to the point, studies have been commissioned which indicate that bullies have a higher propensity for committing crimes of violence and ending up in prison. They also end up being wife-beaters. Their kids end up f*ck-up in the head after watching this all their lives. And then they go out and continue the cycle. Because its all they know. I worked long enough as a correctional officer and counselor to KNOW this.

If the existing laws we have were sufficient, then this wouldn't be a problem, would it? Assault has been on the books almost since the days of Magna Carta. The fact is that kids are dying, committing suicide and being beaten to a pulp. And when some of the parents do complain, the educators sit with their thumbs up their butts, with the lawyers whispering in their ears telling them not to do anything so they won't get sued. Or worse, they ignore the seriousness of it.

In loco parentis means that the authorities have an obligation to stop intimidation dead in its tracks. But many still see this as some sort of "rite of passage." Others (many of whom are Fundies), allow this behavior to continue and turn a blind eye, in some sort of sick belief of their own righteouness. And some teachers are just scared of the bullies themselves.

And there's another point you may be missing. A law specific to bullying places a legal obligation upon the teachers and principals to act. And their failure to do so, would now become a violation of law. If the teachers need to have the risk of sanctions hanging over their heads in order to make them protect the innocent, then so be it. I wish we didn't need such laws, but without it, kids will just continue to be abused with the full knowledge and tacit consent of those whose duty it is to protect them.

I'm a parent whose kids are now out of school. But I saw the devolution process in full swing. My sister is still a teacher and she has enough horror stores to fill a book. Some parents always want to make their kids blameless in some instances, where as others are totally negligent of their own children. THIS IS A PROBLEM. And the instances of bullying are only increasing now, as gay Americans stand up for their rights. Because the bullies see it as their job to push them back down. And they'll continue to do it until someone makes them STOP.

- And apparently the principals and teacher need a specific law that lets them do it. So I say give it to them.

These cases of school shootings were studied by the Secret Service. The names and details here come from public records.

Anthony Barbaro, 18, Olean, N.Y., Dec. 30, 1974. Honor student brought guns and homemade bombs to school, set off the fire alarm, and shot at janitors and firemen who responded. SWAT team found him asleep, with headphones playing "Jesus Christ Superstar." Hanged himself while awaiting trial.

John Christian, 13, Austin, Texas, May 19, 1978. Son of George Christian, former press secretary to LBJ, honor student, shot and killed teacher.

Robin Robinson, 13, Lanett, Ala., Oct. 15, 1978. After a disagreement with a student, he was paddled by the principal. He returned to school with a gun; when told he would be paddled again, he shot and wounded the principal.

James Alan Kearbey, 14, Goddard, Kan., Jan. 21, 1985. Killed the principal and three others in his junior high school. Said he was bullied and beaten by students for years.

Kristofer Hans, 14, Lewiston, Mont., Dec. 4, 1986. Failing French, tried to kill the teacher but shot and killed her substitute. Injured a vice principal and two students. Had threatened to kill the French teacher.

Nathan Faris, 12, DeKalb, Mo., March 2, 1987. Teased about his chubbiness, Faris shot a classmate, then shot himself to death.

Nicholas Elliott, 16, Virginia Beach, Va., Dec. 16., 1988. Went to school with a semiautomatic pistol, 200 rounds of ammunition and three firebombs. He wounded one teacher, killed another and fired on a student who had called him a racist name.

Cordell "Cory" Robb, 15, Orange County, Calif., Oct. 5, 1989. Took kids hostage in drama class with a shotgun and semiautomatic pistol with the goal of getting his stepfather to school so he could kill him; the stepfather planned to move the family. Shot a student who taunted him. Had told several students what he planned.

Eric Houston, 20, Olivehurst, Calif., May 1, 1992. Former student was upset over losing a job because he had not graduated. Killed three students and a social studies teacher who had given him a failing grade; injured 13 people. Held students hostage.

John McMahan, 14, Napa, Calif., May 14, 1992. Bullied by other boys, he opened fire with a .357 in first period science class, wounding two students.

Wayne Lo, 18, Great Barrington, Mass., Dec. 14, 1992. At an exclusive college-prep boarding school, Lo killed two people and wounded four others. School administrators knew he had received a package from an ammo company and had decided to let him keep it. A student tried to warn counselors.

Scott Pennington, 17, Grayson, Ky., Jan. 18, 1993. Held his high school English class hostage after killing his teacher and killing a custodian.

Leonard McDowell, 21, Wauwatosa, Wis., Dec. 1, 1993. Former student killed an associate principal who had handled his long history of disciplinary problems.

Clay Shrout, 17, Union, Ky., May 26, 1994. Killed his family, then sat in class with a gun before surrendering.

Nicholas Atkinson, 16, Greensboro, N.C., Oct. 12, 1994. Suspended student shot and wounded assistant principal, killed himself.

Chad Welcher, 16, Manchester, Iowa, Nov. 8. 1994. Fired two shotgun blasts into the principal's office, hitting a secretary.

John Sirola, 14, Redlands, Calif., Jan. 23, 1995. Shot principal in the face and shoulder; died of self-inflicted wound, which may have been accidental.

Toby Sincino, 16, Blackville, S.C., Oct. 12, 1995. Sincino was picked on by students. A week before the shooting, he had been suspended for making an obscene gesture. He shot and wounded a math teacher, killed another math teacher, then killed himself.

Jamie Rouse, 17, Lynnville, Tenn., Nov. 15, 1995. Upset over failing grade, fired at teachers, killing one, wounding another. When firing at a third teacher, he hit a female student, who died. Had told five friends that he planned to bring the rifle to school.

Barry Loukaitis, 14, Moses Lake, Wash., Feb. 2, 1996. Walked into algebra class with a hunting rifle, two handguns and 78 rounds of ammunition. Killed the teacher and two students, wounded a third. One of the students killed had teased him.

Name and location withheld by investigators, 16, Feb. 8, 1996. Wounded a student and killed himself. He had tried to commit suicide in the past. Other students knew he had been asking for a gun but didn't report it.

Anthony Gene Rutherford, 18; Jonathan Dean Moore, 15; Joseph Stanley Burris, 15; Patterson, Mo., March 25, 1996. The three killed a student at a rural Christian school for troubled youths. They thought he might intervene in an attack they planned on the school.

David Dubose Jr., 16, Scottsdale, Ga., Sept. 25, 1996. A student at the school for less than a week, Dubose shot and killed a teacher.

Evan Ramsey, 16, Bethel, Alaska, Feb. 19, 1997. Killed the principal and one student, wounding two, with a shotgun. Had told many students what he would do.

Luke Woodham, 16, Pearl, Miss., Oct. 1, 1997. Killed his mother, then killed two students and wounded seven. Was urged on by other boys.

Michael Carneal, 14, West Paducah, Ky., Dec. 1, 1997. Used a stolen pistol to kill three students and wound five in a prayer group, including his ex-girlfriend.

Joseph "Colt" Todd, 14, Stamps, Ark., Dec. 15, 1997. Shot two students. Said he was humiliated by teasing.

Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, Jonesboro, Ark., March 24, 1998. The pair killed four female students and a teacher after pulling the fire alarm. They had stolen the guns from Golden's grandfather.

Andrew Wurst, 14, Edinboro, Pa., April 25, 1998. Killed a teacher and wounded three students at a dinner-dance. He had talked of killing people and taking his own life.

Jacob Davis, 18, Fayetteville, Tenn., May 19, 1998. An honor student three days before graduation, Davis used a rifle to shoot another boy in a dispute over a girl.

Kip Kinkel, 15, Springfield, Ore., May 21, 1998. After being expelled for bringing a gun to school, Kinkel killed his parents, then two students in the cafeteria, wounding 25. Father had given him the Glock.

Shawn Cooper, 16, Notus, Idaho, April 16, 1999. He rode the bus to school with a shotgun wrapped in a blanket. He pointed the gun at a secretary and students, then shot twice into a door and at the floor. He had a death list, but told one girl he wouldn't hurt anyone. He surrendered.

Eric Harris, 17, and Dylan Klebold, 18, near Littleton, Colo., April 20, 1999. The pair killed 12 students and one teacher, wounded 23 students, and killed themselves. They had planned far more carnage at Columbine High School, spreading 31 explosive devices. They had detailed plans, including hand signals for "use bomb" and "suicide (point to head w gun)."

Thomas Solomon, 15, Conyers, Ga., May 20, 1999. Fired at the legs and feet of students, injuring six. Had turned sullen after being dumped by his girlfriend, and had talked of bringing a gun to school.

Victor Cordova Jr., 12, Deming, N.M., Nov. 19, 1999. Shot a student in the head, killing her.

Seth Trickey, 13, Fort Gibson, Okla., Dec. 6, 1999. Wounded four students outside Fort Gibson Middle School. Surrendered.

Nathaniel Brazill, 13, Lake Worth, Fla., May 26, 2000. Had been sent home

I think that's enough.....

[aspergris]

27. if yer gonna use bona fides

I've worked long enough as a police officer to know that CRIMINALIZING bullying, bringing cops into school for every minor behavioral issue, and expanding the criminal code to include "bullying" is absurd.

Correlation vs. causation issues aside (and if you want to go predictive routes, let remember that the #1 predictor HANDS DOWN for future criminal behavior in boys is being born out of wedlock/fatherless), your cites don't prove your point.

Sure, lots of kids who were bullied SNAP.

Lots more kids who were bullied don't snap.

I am sure I could show numerous examples of kids who ate wheaties for breakfast who snapped.

Furthermore, bringing johnnylaw into a bullying situation is not necessarily going to help. Like I said, it's like swatting a fly with a bazooka.

TO state that I've seen countless examples of fucked up kids, violent kids, criminal sadists, future predators, etc. would be a gross understatement.

None of that justifies criminalizing bullying and ESPECIALLY not at the federal level. We have already seen grossly expanded federal law enforcement power due to war on drugs (im against it), war on terror, war on domestic violence, war on...

sometimes the solutions are worse than the problem.

I am perfectly fine with schools setting administrative sanctions on teachers who don't act. I am NOT fine with the federal govt. criminalizing bullying.

i think you would be surprised how many kids are bullied at some point in their school career, so to speak. i was. not being the subject of a bully at some point is less likely than not.

I'm not saying bullying is ok. I am saying that criminalizing it, ESPECiALLY under federal law is a far worse solution than the problem, not to mention it won't BE a solution

the 14 yr old girl internet taunted into suicide (leaving aside the causation problems. was ozzy osbourne (suicide solution) responsible for the suicide HE was sued for? of course not) was a tragedy. kneejerk, overreaching, and overly expansive federal powers are worse than the problem.

as for the civil rights aspects. gay kids have the same rights not to be assaulted or threatened as straight kids. are gay kids more likely ceteris paribus to be bullied? quite possibly. So are fat kids, nerdy kids, pimply kids, etc. All deserve equal CRIMINAL protection from CRIMINAL acts.

Just the other day, I investigated a case where a kid pulled a knife on another kid. I handled it with a warning and a report primarily because it didn't rise to the felony level AND the victim/parent were non-desirous of prosecution. But that's a CRIME. Bullying isn't

[DeSwiss]

30. The one thing we both seem to agree upon....

...is that we'd both prefer not to have such laws. You think they're overkill, and I do too, but I still think they're necessary.

What we're actually discussing here are not violations of law so much, as the symptoms of greater underlying problems within society itself. Poverty, parenting issues (of all varieties) and possibly even environmental impacts that we are just now becoming aware of. And based upon all the percentages, I should have become a criminal, if I had succumbed to the vagaries of my lot in life. Some do, some don't. And the situation we have now isn’t helped by the fact that we continue to add more and more responsibilities into the education process and upon the teachers that were once the exclusive domain of parents. But that too is a reality.

As to the issue of gay-bashing, which is what has prompted so many religious efforts to derail such legislation as mentioned in the OP, I see gay people as being just as worthy of laws to protect them, as I did for the enactment of laws against racial discrimination for myself. They are being victimized and attacked just becasue of who they are. And as long as we have religious leaders countenancing this behavior instead of condemning it, then we must have laws against it. We simply must. Because they're even now trying to say that they're just exercising their religious beliefs. Which is total BS as far as the Constitution is concerned. No religion has the right to exist if to do so it must sacrifice the humanity of others. And this is really what much of this bullying issue is really all about. The tacit approval by some in authority, not to lift a finger to help someone -- if they're gay. And the ages of these victims just keeps getting younger.

As a cop, I'm sure you're aware of many laws that are ridiculous. And also of laws that are selectively enforced. But here is a case where we have laws (as you suggest we use), that are not being applied. Why? If a kid hits another kid, technically that's an assault. Or is it horse-playing? Or just a run-of-the-mill school fight? The problem is, that today no one can say that with certainty anymore. Not after Columbine and similar other tragedies. Bullies are hurting others, threatening others, and killing. And some of the bullied are fighting back with -- overkill. Either way, its a situation that's already gotten out of hand.

Laws will never change what's in someone's heart. And it won't take away the memories of the beatings and the absue that many kids have to live under. As they foist it all back into the public arena. But we call ourselves "a nation of laws." So this is how we do it.

Just remember, there weren't any jaywalking laws, until there were cars.

- So I guess that I will respectfully agree to disagree with you on this point. But its been a great convo!

[aspergris]

31. I agree. Good convo :)

[ZombieHorde]

34. Wine is fine.

the 14 yr old girl internet taunted into suicide (leaving aside the causation problems. was ozzy osbourne (suicide solution) responsible for the suicide HE was sued for? of course not) was a tragedy. kneejerk, overreaching, and overly expansive federal powers are worse than the problem.

Those do not compare at all. That song is anti-suicide, bullying is not.

[truedelphi]

29. I will stand with you on this one.

Being bullied is a very hard problem to resolve.

SOmetimes parents help the one who is bullied, sometimes the kid's other friends do.

But in many cases the bullies just get to thrive on their idiotic behavior.

[Prophet 451]

10. Reminds me of Gandhi's comment about Western Civilisation...

...roughly "Well, it would be a good idea".

[Speck Tater]

7. There's just enough religion in the world to make people hate each other.

And not quite enough religion in the world to make people love each other.

[trotsky]

32. So the answer is we need MORE religion?

And where does that leave us non-believers? Are we part of the problem?

[rurallib]

9. Call bullying terrorism. Call hate crimes terrorism. That is what they are.

then the kakistocrats will be lining up to support them to bone up their "terrist" credentials.
(kakistocracy = governing by the worst. Repugs a kakistocrats)

[Prophet 451]

11. *sigh*

I wish I could be surprised but I'm not. If it wasn't the sexual orientation clause, it'd be something else. Bullying destroys lives but no-one ever wants to do anything about it.

[DeSwiss]

12. One of the many, many reasons....

- K&R!!!

Bullying's day in court

USA Today
By Jonathan Turley
Tue Jul 15, 12:16 AM ET

Mathew Mumbauer, 11, never saw it coming. One moment in early March, he was walking down the stairs at Brickett Elementary School in Lynn, Mass. The next moment he was lying at the bottom of the stairs. He was left paralyzed and on a ventilator. Mathew's parents http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/usatoday/cm_usatoday/storytext/bullyingsdayincourt/28235283/SIG=11qojkn04/*http://wbztv.com/local/lynn.bullying.bully.2.688600.html">blame bullies who had been hounding Mathew for most of the year.

Mathew is only the latest victim of bullying in our schools, and some parents are turning from the schoolhouse to the courthouse to seek relief. Meanwhile, tens of thousands of students are anxiously counting down the days left in summer and the approach of another bullying season. With the advent of the Internet, YouTube and MySpace, bullying is becoming more prevalent and more lethal — allowing bullies to move from playgrounds to cyberspace in pursuit of their prey. While the number of bullying lawsuits is unknown, some high-profile cases are focusing attention on the national problem.

Dealing with bullies has long been treated as just part of "growing up," a natural and even maturing element of childhood. Encounters with the ubiquitous bully in movies and literature are treated as a type of rite of passage, particularly for boys. From "the Ogre" in Revenge of the Nerds to Scut Farkas in A Christmas Story, the bullies always lose when you simply stand up to them, right?

Perhaps, or you can end up dead. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/usatoday/cm_usatoday/storytext/bullyingsdayincourt/28235283/SIG=12ns8f83g/*http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/education/sfl-schoolshootings.map,0,208678.mapmashup">Across the country, schoolchildren have been killed http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/usatoday/cm_usatoday/storytext/bullyingsdayincourt/28235283/SIG=11q78p30g/*http://www.secretservice.gov/ntac/chicago_sun/case15.htm">after standing up to bullies in places as wide-ranging as West Paducah, Ky., Edinboro, Pa., and Jonesboro, Ark.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20080715/cm_usatoday/bullyingsdayincourt;_ylt=Ajb8YFdzUsZm_zisP8XfxpKs0NUE">MORE

[TechBear_Seattle]

13. I wish I could wag my finger at you and give a lecture on broad brushes

But I'm inclined to agree with you. Sure, the groups who have worked to oppose this bill are Talibangelicals who do not represent mainstream Christian belief. But where are the Christian groups working to get this bill passed? And where are the Christian groups denouncing this failure to protect vulnerable people?

Silence equals complicitity, and as long as (presumed) mainstream Christians allow extremists to have their way, they are just as guilty for what the extremists accomplish.

[DeSwiss]

18. Here, here.

You said it brother.

- You can never find those "good Christians" when you need them....

[knitter4democracy]

23. Wow. This is awful.

I wish I understood why so many fear and hate our LBGT brothers and sisters. I just can't understand that.

I'd have to read the law, but working on eliminating bullying sounds like a good thing to me.

[struggle4progress]

26. If we had a good progressive news source, we'd learn about this stuff ahead of time

instead of reading it in the N&O's UtD after the fact

And there's no bill number and name, as is all too common with modern "coverage" -- so it's hard to track down

If you track such matters, dsc, how about dropping a timely post in the NC forum or PMing some of us NCers when issues like this are on the front burner? As a general rule, I expect the Durham delegation to do the right thing -- but it never hurts to remind them to do so

Haven't seen you in a spell: hope all is well! The Trianglers ought to get together for :beer: and :party: again, before too much time passes

[ZombieHorde]

28. What does the bill do?

[TechBear_Seattle]

33. Link to HB 1366: School Violence Prevention Act,

http://ncleg.net/gascripts/BillLookUp/BillLookUp.pl?Session=2007&BillID=H1366

Thanks to Pam at Pam's House Blend for posting this link at her blog. :hi:

[ZombieHorde]

35. The bill you posted (thanks by the way) makes no reference to sexuality.

What I am missing?

[DeSwiss]

36. Here ya go....

HB 1366, the School Violence Prevention Act, would include a reference to sexual orientation and gender identity -- and that set off the fundie alarm over the Homosexual Agenda. The paragraph in question:

"Bullying or harassing behavior includes, but is not limited to, acts reasonably perceived as being motivated by any actual or perceived characteristic, such as race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, gender identity or expression, physical appearance, sexual orientation, or mental, physical, or sensory disability, or by association with a person who has or is perceived to have one or more of these characteristics."

[ZombieHorde]

37. I saw that on the blog, but not in the bill.

[TechBear_Seattle]

38. It is part of the first paragraph

§ 115C‑407.5, under the title "Bullying and harassing behavior."

Go to the link and look at list of editions in the upper left. The "Filed" link, 115C‑407.5(a) reads:

As used in this article, "bullying or harassing behavior" is any pattern of gestures or written, electronic, or verbal communications, or any physical act or any threatening communication, that takes place on school property, at any school‑sponsored function, or on a school bus, and that:

(1) Places a student or school employee in actual and reasonable fear of harm to his or her person or damage to his or her property; or

(2) Has the effect of substantially interfering with or impairing a student's educational performance, opportunities, or benefits.

Bullying or harassing behavior includes, but is not limited to, acts reasonably perceived as being motivated by any actual or perceived characteristic, such as race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, gender identity or expression, physical appearance, sexual orientation, or mental, physical, or sensory disability, or by association with a person who has or is perceived to have one or more of these characteristics.

Now pull up Edition 5, which is (at the moment) the latest version of the bill, after all the compromising. The above quoted text now reads:

As used in this Article, "bullying or harassing behavior" is any pattern of gestures or written, electronic, or verbal communications, or any physical act or any threatening communication, that takes place on school property, at any school‑sponsored function, or on a school bus, and that:

(1) Places a student or school employee in actual and reasonable fear of harm to his or her person or damage to his or her property; or

(2) Creates or is certain to create a hostile environment by substantially interfering with or impairing a student's educational performance, opportunities, or benefits. For purposes of this section, "hostile environment" means that the victim subjectively views the conduct as bullying or harassing behavior and the conduct is objectively severe or pervasive enough that a reasonable person would agree that it is bullying or harassing behavior.

Even this watered down language was too much for the religious bigots to find acceptable.

[ZombieHorde]

39. Thank you so much.