Jesus Is Failing At Coweta County High

[DeSwiss]

Little interest shown for Bible classes

The Times-Herald
Published Sunday, December 28, 2008 in Local
By Brenda Pedraza-Vidamour

Few students have shown interest in taking Bible classes in Georgia two years after Georgia became the first state to allow the classes to be taught as an elective, and none have expressed an interest in the classes in Coweta County. "Since this came up, we have not had anyone ask to explore the class, and we haven't had a large number of students to express an interest in the class," said Dean Jackson, spokesman for the Coweta County School System.

"History and Literature of the Old Testament Era" and "History and Literature of the New Testament Era" were among the English elective courses approved by the state school board in 2006, but since the 2007-08 school year -- the first year the classes were allowed -- just 37 of 440 high schools offered the classes, according to Associated Press. The classes are strictly academic explorations of the Bible and are expected to offer students an understanding on how the Bible has influenced literature, history and society.

The state board adopted standards for the Bible classes, including the stipulation that the Bible itself had to be used as the textbook, but which version of the Bible or what supplemental materials would be used were left up to the local school boards. Specific lessons, teaching and training for the classes were also left to the local school boards. The U.S. Supreme Court prohibited public school teachers from teaching students what to believe about the Bible in 1963 but allowed academic study of the Bible to continue.

A state lawmaker who sponsored the bill authorizing the classes told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that more districts would offer the courses if they were promoted. "You've got to convince these school boards to do it, but they're reluctant because they're so afraid of lawsuits," said state Senate Majority Leader Tommie Williams, R-Lyons. "This has nothing to do with proselytizing. My intention is for people to become literate of the Bible and its influences on society." Jackson said the Coweta school system would be open to offering the class if there was student interest from at least 14-16 students, the minimum number needed to create a class. "Ultimately, what really determines it is whether or not we have the interest to open those classes," he said.

Students in Coweta appear to be more interested in the arts this year instead. Last spring, the Coweta County Board of Education approved 17 course additions. Most were related to the arts, and were included in the high school courses offered at the Central Educational Center this year. They ranged from drawing and painting to music in film and video. Several other course additions pertained to CEC's workforce development mission and they included classes in air conditioning, game development, robotics, health care science and electrical apprenticeship.

http://www.times-herald.com/Local/Little-interest-shown-for-Bible-classes-622571">LINK

- Well, I'm sure that the kids are all studying very hard to pass their "Abstinence Only" exams.

And with those kinds of difficult studies and um.... pressures occupying their minds, who has time for Jesus???
==============================================================================
DeSwiss


http://www.atheisttoolbox.com/">The Atheist Toolbox




"Prayer is just a way of telling god that his divine plan for
you is flawed -- and shockingly stingy" ~ Betty Bowers

[Goblinmonger]

1. As a HS English teacher

I would LOVE to teach a Bible and literature class. Of course, I would teach it as mythology, but it would be great. Plenty of things to look at; such a huge influence on literature. Probably not what Georgia had in mind, though.

[DeSwiss]

3. Teaching the bible as mythology....

...is the only way to go.

[TechBear_Seattle]

10. I respectfully disagree

I took a very interesting 9 unit interdisciplinary class in college. Basically, it combined three three semester unit courses: History of Western Civ I, Art History I and World Lit. The class was team-taught by the best professors the school had in these three areas.

We did study the Bible, not as mythology but as a work of literature that shaped Europe and was the source of the stories told in the "literature" of religious iconography and stained glass. Then again, we studied neo-lithic artifacts and cave paintings, The Illiad, Beowulf, The Inferno and Don Qixote in much the same manner. The theme that tied everything together was Joseph Campbell's Hero With A Thousand Faces.

Granted, Campbell would probably say that all this material was taught as myth, but probably not with the same meaning you are using. :hi:

[DeSwiss]

13. I don't think we have opposite views here....

...because I also think that there is a great deal of literary value to many parts of the bible. Mythology is in fact simply another form which literature can take. And as with all literature, its value is in the eye of the beholder. Maybe this is just a matter of our using different semantics.

My concern is only when society in-general begins to view these myths as if they were facts. Which should therefore, somehow be translated into reality and then dictated to me through modification of social mores. Which often evolve into laws which are designed to restrict and control my actions and speech. That's when I begin to have problems with its value -- literary or otherwise.

At present, I don't think that people in-general have been sufficiently educated to view the bible in its proper context as mythical literature. Particularly when the majority of those receiving what education they do get, are receiving it from those who have a vested interest in these mythical biblical beliefs being accepted, as fact. Which is why I don't promote it generally so as not to confuse that point of distinction. There are plenty of other myths out there that people don't view as "real" which can teach what I call The Basic Lessons Of Life's Dichotomies (as in good vs. evil, etc.), other than just the bible.

However, my point about viewing this literature as myth is because much, if not most of it is myth. It certainly cannot be viewed as history, in the general sense in which that term is used. These myths as recounted by the Hebrews and Christians are the the result of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretism">syncretism of many historical accounts, religions and myths over the millenniums (and in the case of Christianity possibly the outright theft of some parts of it). They are the results of the religions and histories of many peoples, and which go well beyond the 6,000 years of the Hebrews.

Joseph Campbell spoke of this seminal thread of myth, both in his book "The Hero With A Thousand Faces" (whose title in fact makes the very point about the thread which travels through all myths and theologies), and he elaborated on this idea further in his PBS interview with Bill Moyers back in the 80s.

So, given the fact that many of the http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594621632">bible's stories can be found in the religions which pre-date Judaism and Christianity, they can only be seen as knock-offs, at best.

- Still, they're pretty good knock-offs....

on edit: delete duplicated word

[davefromqueens]

12. Using that as a counterweight

One of the ways I like fighting right wingers is by coming up with counterproposals that reveal how absurd their ideas are so that neither idea becomes law.

If a public school is going to have Bible studies then we have FlyingSpaghettiMonster studies. If they want to teach the book as truth, we teach it as fiction.

[DeSwiss]

14. Davefromqueens, you fight a noble cause indeed...

...however, it is a fight which I gave up on some time ago.

The reason being that I found that in the end, ReligiousRightWingNuts can't be fought with the truth one will find in reality. It has no place in their "thinking" when it comes to their religious belief. For them, it just is.

For example, their argument against the inclusion of the FSM would be that the FSM isn't real. So if you argue that: "neither is Yahweh or His Immaculately Created Son," it would fall upon deaf ears. Every. Time.

Because they believe that Yahweh and His Immaculately Created Son are real. So there you are.

- But keep up the good fight. Because everyone needs a hobby.....

[davefromqueens]

23. I never stop fighting

I operate under the premise that there is a certain percentage of society that can not be changed. Therefore I don't try with them.

However, my tactics are about winning over those who are lukewarm. When they see the absurdity of my position, it dawns a light in them that the RW nuts are equally absurd. Plus, many of these schools and communities have these RW nuts because most people remain silent, fearful of violence. If you speak out against them, it encourages others to join. If they silence you, 3 more people take your place.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

2. No. Just no.

Does the Bible have a good deal of influence over Western literature? Yes. Should that fact be explored in a vacuum like that? No.

During my teaching stint I created a unit about Paradise Lost. One class I had my kids spend read Genesis 2 and 3 and discuss how Milton used the story as a source material. It took about 20 minutes. (They had already read the Odyssey and Beowulf previously, so I didn't need any lesson on the nature of epic poetry).

For the stuff most high school students are capable of, you don't need to dedicate an entire class to studying how the Bible influenced literature (particularly if you're doing it in isolation from other works, if that's what these classes propose). And studying the Bible as literature might be beyond many students, since the Bible is a very, very complex work.

Why is Georgia giving this blatant attempt to erode what little left there is of the barrier between church and state?

[Goblinmonger]

4. I love Paradise Lost

I have any kid wanting to go into lit in college read Paradise Lost. Pretty damn influencial book--gives a whole new understanding to Steinbeck.

[Lint Head]

6. I have had people actually quote Paradise Lost passages to me

as if they were Bible verses when the connotation and quote cannot be found in the Bible.

I've also had someone say, "God helps those who help themselves" is in the Bible.
It's actually a quote from Ben Franklin's Poor Richard's Almanac from 1757.

Paradise Lost created a paradigm shift in Religious thinking.

[Goblinmonger]

7. I've had that, too.

I love freaking people out by telling them that the devil is the hero of Paradise Lost.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

8. Haha. When I did that my more religious students nearly lost it.

It was as though you could see the gears seizing up in their brains.

[knitter4democracy]

15. Well, that's what the Romantics said.

I happen to agree with them. Far more interesting character than Adam (who's a total wuss) or Eve.

[DeSwiss]

5. I agree with all your points.

Particularly about the capabilities (or lack thereof) of most high school students today to critically digest the material and to put into context. Which is what is sorely lacking in most non-secular settings where its "stories" are presented. As to what GA does and why? I don't think they even know anymore. From my memory, they're just lashing out at progress and evolution like they always have.

- They've been doing it so long now, they just can't help themselves, I guess....

[silverojo]

9. Whose fault is it, that HS students' abilities are lacking?

Their parents and teachers are the ones to blame, not the kids.

Who the hell deals with "critically digesting" literature upon leaving school? Unless you're applying for a job as a literature professor to bore a new generation to death, literature is simply a waste of time. Kids need to be taught grammar and spelling. For that matter, when I read various forums, I see a huge number of adults who need grammar and spelling classes, too. (Can you say "Freeperville"?) :rofl:

Seriously, high-school kids are smart enough to teach themselves the other kinds of knowledge that they need to exist in the real world. And most of them actually care about the environment, because it affects their future.

The skills you need in this world are all about science and technology...and our current high-schoolers are light-years ahead of previous generations in this respect. :)

[knitter4democracy]

16. Reading good literature is a great way to learn spelling and grammar.

Teaching those with worksheets doesn't work anywhere near as well. When students see how it's supposed to be written in literature (or, even better, written incorrectly), it is a far better workable example to use in the classroom. I used to do sentence structure using whatever piece we were reading at the time.

[DeSwiss]

18. I don't blame "The Kids"....

...for what they aren't taught by their elders. Nor in the piss-poor way in which what they are taught -- is taught.

As to the value of critically digesting literature in our modern world, I can only respond with the words of George Santayana:

Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. In the first stage of life the mind is frivolous and easily distracted, it misses progress by failing in consecutiveness and persistence. This is the condition of children and barbarians, in which instinct has learned nothing from experience. ~ The Life of Reason, Volume 1, 1905

I agree with your point that the skills most needed today, indeed do require an emphasis upon science and technology. However, the fact is that the "high-schoolers" of today do continue to read and to follow mythical tales and literature. Only the form has changed.

While I don't follow video games and such, from what I recall with my own kids many, many moons ago, they could quite easily explain to me everything I wanted to know about The Legend of Zelda, or the basic premise behind The Mario Brothers, and why it was important to save the Princess. The ethos of which would apply to all the other video games which have evolved since those early days which have similar storylines and whose purpose is to underscore the vagaries and values that are to be found in the battles between GOOD & EVIL.

- So its the same thing, only different....

[Loudmxr]

11. Ahh the magic of the market place.

[DeSwiss]

19. So you're saying that Adam Smith would be proud.

Because they provided the supply, but there was NO DEMAND. So therefore.....

FAIL!!!

- I like it!!!

[knitter4democracy]

17. I like this idea, but I also could've predicted the outcome.

For the Christian kids, why take another Bible class when you get it in Sunday School, church, and youth group every week? For the non-Christian kids, why take the class at all?

I usually incorporated whatever Bible stories/concepts came up in whatever pieces I was teaching. I have found, though, in taking grad-level lit classes at the local university, that most students don't even see the most basic Biblical allusions, let alone profs. My last class's textbook got one wrong, even. Quite wrong. Really annoying.

[DeSwiss]

20. That's pretty much the way....

...I saw it too. I could have predicted that it would fail for those very reasons. Overkill.

Except I also think that if this kind of "elective" is going to be offered to high-schoolers, just having a specific class which teaches only the bible as opposed to all the other religions -- is wrong. But the ReligiousRightWingNuts who came up with this idea don't want to open the door that wide.

- They're simply trying to inculcate their religious beleifs and biblical interpretations into the larger society using the public schools as the medium.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

21. Yep, overkill.

They want ALL JEEBUS ALL THE TIME FOR EVERYBODY WHETHER THEY WANT IT OR NOT.

This is exactly why I am sick of hearing and thinking about Jesus and Christianity and all its symbols and signs and books.

I've been sick of it for years.

I wish the U.S. had a truly open marketplace in ideas and belief systems. I wish it wasn't completely taken over by Christians, and more specifically by fundy Christians.

And I wish those fundy Christians(I'm not talking about the liberal Christians) would stop being so rude by inquiring about the state of my soul, or my relationship with Jeebus.

They don't know it's rude.

Me, I have to look at Buddhas, Kwan Yins, and Hindu dieties for relief.

[knitter4democracy]

22. I agree. A mythology or world religions class makes more sense.

Sure, there's a lot to the Bible, but it's possible to cover the main points within the framework of world religions, which would make more sense, I think, in the long-term.