Guardian: Atheist Bus Campaign is 'offensive', say complaints to ASA

[BurtWorm]

:nopity:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/jan/09/atheist-bus-campaign-asa

The advertising regulator has received more than 50 complaints that an atheist ad campaign, proclaiming "There is probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life", is offensive to Christians and other religions that believe in a single God.

Stephen Green, the national director of Christian Voice, is among those who have complained to the Advertising Standards Authority, arguing that the atheist campaign broke the advertising code on the grounds of substantiation and truthfulness.

The ASA has received 57 complaints about the Atheist Bus Campaign which launched earlier this week on buses throughout England, Scotland and Wales, as well as the London underground.

The complainants claim the ad campaign is offensive to Christians and those of other monotheistic religions.

Green said: "It is given as a statement of fact and that means it must be capable of substantiation if it is not to break the rules.

"There is plenty of evidence for God, from people's personal experience, to the complexity, interdependence, beauty and design of the natural world.

"But there is scant evidence on the other side, so I think the advertisers are really going to struggle to show their claim is not an exaggeration or inaccurate, as the ASA code puts it."

The regulator has not yet decided if the complaints warrant a formal investigation to see if the campaign has broken the advertising code....

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

1. I got a good chuckle out of the ad. nt

[rurallib]

2. "There is plenty of evidence for God"

Might I suggest that Mr. Green substantiate this claim first?

[YOY]

3. A little thing called "demonstrative fact" escapes him.

According to most holy scriptures God was really in to it a while ago...now, not so much.

[hendo]

9. demonstrate for me how there is no possibility that God exists.

I do like this ad though because they state is as "God probably does not exist". That probably in there is key, and it keeps the statement from being offensive. Hats off to this campiagn, they stated thier opinions in a way that was inoffensive to all but the most devout religious people.

[YOY]

11. The beauty of agnosticism is not having to disprove the existence as well.

Some of the hardcore atheists here get all philosophical about "disproving a negative"...but I don't like to deal in philosophy. I prefer to deal in scientific facts and realism.

I do like their campaign too. Tasteful and upbeat.

[hendo]

20. unfortunately agnostics get grief from both sides NT

[YOY]

21. Let 'em grief me. When one of 'em comes up with some demonstrable fact then I'll buy it.

I don't see that coming any time...

[dmallind]

23. Probably because many of them think there is a third side

and ignore weak atheism completely.

You either believe or you don;t. Whether you believe we can ever know, and how, is a completely separate epistemoilogical question that has nothing to do with whether you are an atheist or a theist. I am 100% agnostic and 100% weak atheist. There is no conflict, as these are answers to separate questions.

Agnostics who use the term as an epistemological position get little or no grief. "Agnostics" who use it to pretend they are not taking a position or are more enlightened do get grief and deservedly so.

There is a question: "Do you have any belief that a personal god or gods exist?"

There are two answers: "Yes I have a belief one or more personal gods exist" or "no I do not".


"We can never know and it's impossible to prove or disprove" is not an answer to that question.

[BurtWorm]

4. I doubt he knows what evidence means.

[hendo]

8. both sides find evidence where they want to see it.

There is no evidence that would suggest that a higher power does not exist either. and I know that you are probably going to say that the burden of proof falls on the person wanting to prove a positive, but the same occurs with someone wanting to prove a negative.

I always find it interesting that the atheists among us do not provide support for their belief that there is no higher power. Surely something led all of you to believe there was no higher power. But what is it? I think some of the atheist here are just doing it because its the "cool" thing to do.

Any belief system has a series of underlying assumptions that the individual who has adopted it takes to be fact. Yet, when many of the atheists here are questioned they just say that religion is stupid. All that that defense shows is that the person does not understand their own belief system. And yes, atheism is a belief system.

[BurtWorm]

14. The problem with trying to find equivalence between the atheist's and theist's positions

is that the theist is asserting that there is a god (despite zero evidence in favor of the proposition) and the atheist is asserting not that there is positively no god (which, as you so rightly point out, can't be proven), but something more like this: There may as well not be a god, given how empty is the set of all evidence that definitively proves there is one (let alone a cast of thousands of them).

[hendo]

19. a theist sees evidence all aroung them

as does an atheist.

[BurtWorm]

22. An atheist sees evidence for god all around him?

That's what you believe? In other words, an atheist sees what you consider to be evidence for god and pretends to believe it's not evidence for god?

Which evidence specifically are you talking about. I can check whether or not I'm pretending it's not evidence for God to verify your belief for you.

[hendo]

31. a THEIST

Please learn how to differentiate a space from the lack of one.

[cyborg_jim]

28. I don't see evidence all around me that Gremlins are responsible for mechanical failures

Therefore I don't think there are any Gremlins.

Wouldn't even have to contemplate this if it someone at some point didn't propose that Gremlins were responsible.

[DeSwiss]

37. There are so many ways...

...the debunk all of your half-baked statements. But then, why bother? Its clear that little if any thought went into what you said. Which is a typical tact and failing of religionists. But what I will say in response to this little diatribe (and nothing more), is that while not an atheist myself, I have enough sense to realize that atheism isn't as you describe, "a belief system." And if you think it is, then you apparently have no idea what a belief system is and you could do with a little more (unbiased) study. If atheism is anything, it is another part of the system known as the Scientific Method.

"Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply an admission of the obvious. In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist." We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle." ~ Sam Harris

[yellowcanine]

5. Religions advertise all the time. Why is it offensive when atheists advertise?

I don't get that, I really don't.

[hendo]

7. However, when religious people advertise

non-religious people complain.

[moggie]

10. How many?

Religious organisations have advertised on British buses for many years. How many non-religious people have complained to the ASA about that? More than 50 per campaign? Less than 50?

[enlightenment]

12. Would you care to substantiate that statement of 'fact'?

Some numbers, please.

[hendo]

18. how about some links

http://www.atheistrev.com/2008/04/nyc-atheists-protest-popes-visit.html
http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/blackpoolnews/Atheist-in-protest-over-39Christianrun39.3639672.jp?CommentPage=4&CommentPageLength=10
http://www.atheistrev.com/2008/08/dncs-interfaith-service.html
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/12/31/obama-inauguration.html

[moggie]

25. Which of those stories is about advertising?

[trotsky]

13. Would that include the advertising that happens on US currency...

and in the pledge of allegiance?

[hendo]

16. if you don't like it

you are free to not spend it.

[trotsky]

27. How very Christian of you.

And I mean that sincerely.

[hendo]

30. how very atheist of you. NT

[cyborg_jim]

33. Ah, the argument of the totalitarian

"If you don't like the rules you are always free to suffer the consequences of breaking them."

[dmallind]

24. Relihgious people advertise by threats of torment

Atheist advertiose just by saying "I think you're wrong". The two are completely different.

"I think you should burn forever you worthless piece of inhuman trash" and "you're wrong" are not equally offensive.

[hendo]

32. its only a threat if you believe in Hell. NT

[dmallind]

35. So being called a credulous guillible fool for believing

Is only an insult if you think you are one?

It is insulting, not threatening.

[redqueen]

6. Wow... more than 50 whole complaints?

And this campaign has been going on for how long?

[Rainbowreflect]

15. As a Christian, I have no problem with this ad. I thought it was funny.

Of course they would probably think I am not a "real Christian".

[Taverner]

17. Someone better call a waaaaaahmbulance

[anonymous171]

26. I'm sure that other bus advertisement was offensive to Atheists. nt

[cyborg_jim]

29. Possibly. Personally I don't feel the need to complain if I see something I don't like

I just get the fuck on with things. Complaining about seeing *ideas* that you might disagree with smacks of an inability to cope with dissenting opinion.

[and-justice-for-all]

34. I would take those complaints and feed them to the shredder...

and there is absolutely ZERO evidence for the existence of their invisible surveillance camera in the sky...NONE. They have to have 'faith' because they do not have any 'facts' or empirical evidence to support their claims.

Until that empirical evidence is presented, THEN THERE IS NO GOD(s).

It is also a 2 way street, they can plaster their religious bullshit anywhere they want. But when the other side does the same thing, the cry and whine, which is a clear indication of just how insecure they are in their dogma.

[laconicsax]

36. The god of the Bible does too exist! I have proof!!!

First piece of proof that God exists: It says so in the Bible.
Second piece of proof that God exists: He has a blog

That's Check and mate.

[moggie]

38. Atheist ads 'not breaking code'

Another failure for Stephen "birdshit" Green:

An atheist UK bus campaign which uses the slogan "There's probably no God" does not breach the advertising code, a watchdog has ruled.

The Advertising Standards Authority said it assessed 326 complaints. Some people claimed the advert was offensive to people who followed a religion.

But the body concluded the campaign was unlikely to mislead or to cause serious or widespread offence.

The campaign is backed by the British Humanist Association.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7842769.stm