thoughts about what was said about a sick child.

[dcsmart]

thank you for speaking to us shauna

without the experience of suffering, no one will understand it. the philosophical and theological blather that people wrote makes it clear that they have not experienced your suffering. i have not. i have lost people i love and did not philosophize about it. it is painful and horrible. that is the truth of living. give up your concepts of heaven and hell and the consequences of non-belief. let only the love for your daughter be your guiding light. it is love that makes us great and divine. for those who ask about a god that lets people suffer, my question is why do you let people suffer. is there anything you do in your daily lives that try to ease people's suffering. if you do then that is way it should be. if you do not, then forget about blaming god and start blaming yourself. if we do not show compassion to others like we want people to show compassion to us and those we love.....we are part of the cause of suffering. millions of children suffer and die each year. do any of you do anything about it. some of you showed compassion for shauna and her child, others coldly blathered about theology. in the face of suffering humanity we must be humbled and moved to action or understand that we make a choice to do nothing and end up acting like the god you condemn. i cannot understand your pain, shauna, but it is your courage and love in the face of such sadness that makes the idea of god believable.


original post:http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x184831
see shauna's reply #12

[cynatnite]

1. god is supposed to be ominipotent and absolute love...

but here is this mother and child suffering. Why worship a god who either can't or won't help them?

I've spent plenty of time trying to save people and watching them die. Many times they were going on about their daily lives as many of us do.

I think it's pretty assanine to assume that because I don't believe god exists that I don't attempt to ease suffering. I've seen suffering and I can promise it's not something many people can stomach.

I have a great deal of compassion and sympathy for this mother who is facing the loss of her child. She will experience a loss I wouldn't wish on anyone, but I've seen it more than I'd like.

All we can do is leave a better world behind than what we started with and do the best we can for one another.

[Sanctified]

2. God never promises that bad stuff won't happen to you. n/t

[cynatnite]

5. So, why call him god? n/t

[Sanctified]

6. Because He is the Creator.

Do you buy the love and affection from your friends and family members or do they love you because you are there when they need someone to talk too?

[cynatnite]

8. My friends and family are real...

I can see them, hear them and touch them. They will always be there and I for them. God is none of those things.

[Sanctified]

9. If you are away from your friends and family are they any less real?

If you call your dad on the phone is he not real? God is always there for you and he is always available not matter where you're at.

[cynatnite]

10. I can hear my family on the telephone and know they are real...

god is not there because god doesn't exist.

[Sanctified]

11. Have you ever tried to talk to Him? n/t

[cynatnite]

12. Talk to an invisible bearded guy as if he's real like Santa Claus?

Uh, yeah, and the notion is as stupid now as it was back then. Please, don't try to convert me. Been there done that. Was raised Southern Baptist. I know the scam.

[Sanctified]

13. Not trying to convert, if you tried and did not like the answer at least you tried. n/t

[onager]

16. "Not trying to convert?"

:rofl:

Your last four posts are nothing but a marketing pitch for God.

As other posters have pointed out ad infinitum, an omnipotent Thingamajig should be perfectly able to deliver Its own sales pitch. Especially since Its earthly sales reps have so many different and conflicting ideas about exactly what the product is, does, and how it should be used.

Or as someone smarter than me once put it: "Religion--the only business in the world where the customers blame themselves for product failure."

[ZombieHorde]

14. If I quit my loved ones, they will not torture me for all eternity.

If I desperately need help, my loved ones will use all of their power to help me.

[dcsmart]

3. in response

i never meant to imply that people who do not believe in god cannot ease suffering. that is not what i said. when people complain about a god not acting and not curing or ending suffering, i have to ask them what are they doing to end it. I am an agnostic. god obviously does not involve itself in preventing suffering. Omnipotent and absolute love are some of the problematic adjectives associated with trying to understand the characterizes of something we cannot see or have any information about other than abstract theology and philosophy. human beings must act to change to the world. if a god does exist...what can anyone say...what is the purpose of that god. if there was a first cause, a creator god, than maybe it is just a deistic god that started the whole thing and left. i agree with you, "all we can do is leave a better world behind than what we started with and do the best we can for one another."

[cynatnite]

4. Here are your words...

for those who ask about a god that lets people suffer, my question is why do you let people suffer. is there anything you do in your daily lives that try to ease people's suffering. if you do then that is way it should be. if you do not, then forget about blaming god and start blaming yourself.

Are you taking the position that because some people question god's unwillingness or inability to help those who suffer then they aren't doing anything to help others as well?

To somehow make the connection that because someone who questions why god allows suffering is because they do nothing for those who suffer is completely asinine. It sounds more like a deist notion than an agnostic one, IMO.

[dcsmart]

7. what is my position.

"Are you taking the position that because some people question god's unwillingness or inability to help those who suffer then they aren't doing anything to help others as well?"


if someone acts to relive suffering in what ever way, then whether they question god is irrelevant. they are acting to relieve the suffering they are accusing god of not doing. all i am saying, possible incoherently, is that if you leave it at just questioning, then yes you are doing nothing. you can question and act. in that case, something is getting done. the question of suffering in the world and a loving god has been asked for centuries, with very inadequate answers. let's just say, if you stop asking the questions and start acting on the issues, then god becomes irrelevant.

as for a deist notion, a deist simply says that a god exists as the creator and then left the scene. they would not question why god allows suffering because god in longer working in the world. god winds the watch, then lets it run. Deism, to me, makes god irrelevant other than as an explanation for the world, which science adequately explains, for me. I say i am agnostic because if an intelligent mind, god, does exist, then atheism is wrong. I do not think any one can know for sure, hence agnosticism.
thank you for your replies. i hope this clarifies my position

[knitter4democracy]

15. I think your first sentence is key.

When I went through my ten years of chronic appendicitis, I was constantly shocked at how nasty some people could be about pain. That's when I realized that they didn't get it, that they've never lived through real pain and therefore only had the occasional headache to compare it to.

People who haven't lived through something like losing a child or massive chronic pain or cancer or something horrific really do seem to have a hard time understanding and empathizing with someone who is walking down that dark hallway. They just don't get it.