The meaning of life.

[ZombieHorde]

Poll question: The meaning of life.

http://dictionary.reference.com/">What do you mean by...

[cosmik debris]

1. Meaning has no life. n/t

[patrice]

13. Is DNA information/meaning? nt

[cosmik debris]

25. Is information meaning? n/t

[patrice]

26. In IT it is. It is statistically different from data, which is not meaning. BUT

you can always change your frame and, possibly (though not necessarily), see what was previously just data become information and vice versa.

[cosmik debris]

27. Is DNA IT? n/t

[patrice]

28. Not if you don't believe in Evolution. nt

[cosmik debris]

34. Maybe n/t

[patrice]

37. k

:fistbump:

[Voice for Peace]

2. what is your question?

what do you want to know?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. Life has the meaning you give it n/t

[Strong Atheist]

50. Beat me to it! Agreed! nt.

[Feron]

67. Exactly. n/t

[HysteryDiagnosis]

4. Getting IBTL. n/t

[CrispyQ]

5. The only meaning life has is what you give it.

BTW, your Dictionary.com link is not directing to a selected word.

[ZombieHorde]

7. Predicting which word will baffle DU is not always an easy thing to do,

so I intentionally left that space blank.

[Muttocracy]

8. what you said. nt

[patrice]

9. Ergo, all meanings are equally valid? nt

[patrice]

10. P.S. Welcome to Karl Rove's mind. nt

[patrice]

14. P.P.S. My only real problem with your post is the word "only". nt

[patrice]

6. "Life" "is" "its" "own" "meaning""." "nt"

[Dragonfli]

11. 42

[knitter4democracy]

47. Exactly. So, where's your towel?

:D

[Dragonfli]

49. It's right here with me as always... see

He is mostly harmless and never panics!

[knitter4democracy]

53. Good towel, then.

With kids, I've upgraded to blankies everywhere, but they're like towels, right? ;)

[moobu2]

12. The answer is out there

It's looking for you. And it will find you, if you want it to.

[patrice]

18. Nice!

Though we don't always recognize what our true desires are, I like Will being a factor. I like how concretely physical that is.

[Silent3]

20. It thinks I owe it money.

It may find me no matter how well I try to avoid it.

[patrice]

22. God knows it's been $ucking my re$ource$ DRY somehow!!! so, I must owe it money. . . .

:rofl:

[EvolveOrConvolve]

42. Ah bullshit dude

I'm not sure if you were being facetious, but "the answer" isn't a sentient being or an intelligent creature and thus can't "look for" anything or person, let alone find them. "The answer" is a human construct that is entirely irrelevant.

The words you wrote have no meaning other than being rhetorical nonsense and remind me of the bullshit homilies thrown at me in churches. They reassure the gullible or unthinking, but have absolutely no meaning whatsoever in reality.

[Th1onein]

15. I believe that life is the process of transforming the physical

into the spiritual. And that process gives it meaning.

[ZombieHorde]

16. All life, such as people and bacteria?

[provis99]

17. No kidding.

These humanist "life has meaning" kooks are just as boring and crazy as religious nuts.

[patrice]

19. That depends upon the meaning of meaning.

Believing that life has no meaning is just as much a belief as believing that it does.

The rationally valid position is 50:50.

[provis99]

23. not believing is not the same as believing

I think the atheist/agnostic forum has covered this topic ad nauseam.

[patrice]

24. Not believing is not possible without belief - and - believing is not possible without not-believing

And meaning is believing.

[Silent3]

31. "The rationally valid position is 50:50"

Now there's a meme I wish would die.

The validity of proposition X being unknown and disputed does not necessarily lead to an exact 50/50 split in the likelihood or validity of X vs. Not-X.

A bank has been robbed. The robber is as yet unknown, and left so few clues the answer may never be known. I propose that Abraham Lincoln robbed the bank. Is Lincoln vs. Not-Lincoln a 50/50 situation? Is that what you'd call a "rational" resolution?

The problem with the question "Does life have meaning?" is firstly a matter of semantics. You have to first iron out what is meant by "life" (human life? animal life? plant life?) and what exactly it means for a thing to "have meaning". Only once you have settled on solid definitions of the terms involved can you even begin to properly evaluate the validity of the statement as a whole.

It is very far from a preordained conclusion that, having settled on particular well-defined terms, the end result of this exercise always be, or even often be, a 50/50 balance.

The 50/50 assumption isn't rationality, it's intellectual laziness and/or surrender to social pressure to appear impartial.

By talking about human life, using a basic definition of "meaning" (not demanding that "having meaning" means "having Great Cosmic Significance") and allowing for meaning to be somewhat circular (the meaning of something in an individual's life to that individual, the meaning of human life to other humans) you can make the statement "Life has meaning" a 100% likely-to-be-true proposition.

On the other hand, if you feel the need to insist that "meaning" means "Great Cosmic Significance" or "Serving a Grand and Timeless Universal Purpose" we're no longer talking about 100% anymore. I can easily imagine making demands on the definitions of terms so extreme that the odds (though difficult to quantify) become extremely low, or even making ones definitions of terms inherently contradictory, such that the likely validity of "life has meaning" drops to 0%.

[patrice]

36. I was referring to allowing hypothetical validation for either perspective without

pre-conditioned bias and, because factors are held (yes, somewhat artificially) at 50:50 i.e. indeterminant, being able to move back and forth between the perspectives. Rationalism is not a finite, static process; it's more circular or like a spiral. By giving equal weight to what you don't know, not giving weight ahead of time to what the outcome is going to be, things that validly mitigate against a point of view are not held artifically at absolute 0.

Lincoln vs. Not-Lincoln is not an example of this because you've already reduced all possibilities to one. To me, your example would be more aptly framed as I know vs. I don't know who robbed the bank.

[Silent3]

51. "I know vs. I don't know" still isn't an automatic 50/50 proposition.

If the person saying "I know who robbed the bank" hadn't studied the crime scene, knew very little about the case, but was angrily denouncing someone against whom the claimant had a very large grudge, I'd not tend to put much credence into that person's claim of knowledge. On the other hand, if an experienced detective who'd studied the crime scene thoroughly, questioned witnesses, checked police records, etc., made such a claim, that claim would be far more convincing.

As for rationality being "more circular or like a spiral", I have no idea what you're talking about. If you want to "allow( for) hypothetical validation" and remove "pre-conditioned bias" then why not consider the hypothetical possibility that dead people can rob banks, or remove your the pre-conditioned bias of thinking that Lincoln is dead?

[ZombieHorde]

38. "The rationally valid position is 50:50."

I either will win the lottery, or I will not win the lottery. So that means I have a 50:50 chance to win the lottery.

[patrice]

21. Is DNA information/meaning? nt

[ZombieHorde]

41. I am going to guess, no/no. nt

[moggie]

30. Or transforming food into excreta

[patrice]

32. Depends.

upon your point of view.

[murray hill farm]

29. Yes....

my life certainly has meaning to me....a great deal of meaning.

[Occam Bandage]

33. I typed "life" in the box in your link. I found that it indeed had several meanings.

I voted "yes" accordingly.

[ZombieHorde]

40. For not being attached to a human, that box is pretty cool. nt

[frogmarch]

35. No meaning beyond the living of it. n/t

[child of the one]

39. Of course life has meaning...I learned that at a young age

Feeling persecuted; feeling like I had gotten the short end of the stick. I investigated mysticism. I read Eastern philosophy and it all started coming together: this is the Wheel (or Matrix, if you will). We have been caught here; seduced by worldly, transitory pleasures. As long as the gravy train keeps humming along, we are fat and happy. Then something stirs us out of our slumber: a loved one's death, perhaps, or another great loss: coveted job, good health...And some try to stay asleep, whether through the use of intoxicants or other distractions. But those who use these trying experiences to break on through to the other side, to quote Mister Mojo Risin', are the ones who really turn lemons into lemonade.

[Silent3]

52. You've described a state of affairs...

...that you think prevails, you haven't said anything that gives life much meaning that I can see. Why is "break(ing) through to the (alleged) other side" a particularly meaningful thing? Why would slumbering on the gravy train drinking beer and eating cheeseburgers be less meaningful?

[child of the one]

56. Because anything related to the senses is transitory so it has a finite time line for enjoyment

The reason they say that many people find God on the battlefield (not to mention death beds!) is that when one is faced with the cold, hard reality that they are soon to leave this planet, they are acutely aware that either they face total annihilation, or that whatever survives death (consciousness) is separated from bodily experiences like eating cheeseburgers and drinking beer.

[Silent3]

58. You're still not addressing why one is more meaningful than the other.

What makes transitory phenomena less meaningful than whatever thing it is that you have in mind that would survive after death? You seem to be confusing the idea of meaning with the idea of permanence.

Name me one specific thing more meaningful than eating a cheeseburger, then tell me how that thing is more meaningful, to whom or to what it's more meaningful. Ask yourself if having meaning and having importance are the same thing.

[child of the one]

61. Anything transient is ultimately unreal, which makes it unimportant

in the grand scheme of things. And if you are governed by this attitude, you will be more interested in that which survives death (i.e; consciousness). That old adage, "You can't take it with you" is correct. Why would you devote the bulk of your time on Earth to sense gratification when you could be developing spiritual gifts?

[uppityperson]

62. And this incarnation is done. Will you wait in limbo, or is there another username waiting

for your soul to inhabit it?

[cosmik debris]

63. She's been axed twice today. n/t

[uppityperson]

64. I've been busy, missed the first one.

[cosmik debris]

65. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=222&topic_id=50706&mesg_id=50755

[uppityperson]

66. !

I'm busy in Choice forum. Sigh

[Crunchy Frog]

43. Yes. Even if it's only the meaning we ourselves give to it. n/t

[Odin2005]

44. The universe has no inherent meaning, we must create meaning for our lives.

And that is a good thing. The notion of some theistic "divine plan for mankind" is totalitarian and creepy, it dehumanizes individuals into mere cogs in the "divine plan".

[SidDithers]

45. "Well, it's nothing very special...

Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations."

That's it. According to the Python's, anyway. :hi:

Sid

[CrispyQ]

46. Best response in this thread!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Silent3]

54. Considering who started this thread, we should amend the Python...

...quote into something like "Try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations, unless of course you're undead, in which case you don't need to worry so much about peace and harmony and good books, just shamble about a bit eating brains, of people of all creeds and nations if you can manage it, just to be fair."

[greyl]

48. Hey, Joseph Campbell answered 3 times in this thread!

His life has meaning that other people give it, too. ;)

[Meshuga]

55. When life has a meaning...

...that meaning is in the eye of the beholder. Life is what we make of it.

[Evoman]

57. Sex.

No really.

The whole point is fucking, then making babies.

Which leads to the question...what is the meaning of babies?

That's as far as I've gotten. Can't find any point in having babies.

[ZombieHorde]

60. Even insects know the answer to you baby question.

For food.

[PassingFair]

59. It has exactly as much meaning as we personally ascribe to it.

No more, no less.

[pokerfan]

68. we are the way for starstuff to understand itself

Whether that has any real meaning is a philosophical question. Or one for physics. Same thing, really.

Is there a meta-universe, outside this one? Perhaps this universe was "borne" from such a meta-universe via the "big bang." Maybe there's another meta-meta-universe on top of that one. Maybe there's an infinite number, turtles all the way down, as it were...

When you get right down to it, all we can do is try to make sense of what we observe. Aside from that relatively recent 1200 year dark age, so far so good...