The fucking nazi Pope broke the excommunication of 4 french negationist

[Sandrine for you]

Le Vatican vient de rendre public un décret signé par le pape Benoît XVI annulant l’excommunication de quatre évêques intégristes ordonnés en 1988 par Mgr Marcel Lefevbre. L’un d’entre eux, Mgr Richard Williamson, a tenu en novembre dernier des propos négationnistes lors d’une entrevue à la télévision suédoise diffusée jeudi soir (voir vidéo ci-dessus). J’en cite un extrait :

«Je crois qu’il n’y a pas eu de chambres à gaz (…) Je pense que 200 000 à 300 000 juifs ont péri dans les camps de concentration, mais pas un seul dans les chambres à gaz.»

Originaire de Grande-Bretagne, Mgr Williamson a également accordé des entrevues au cours desquelles il a accusé le gouvernement américain d’avoir orchestré les attentats terroristes du 11 septembre 2001, selon cet article publié sur le site du New York Times.

More and video here:

http://blogues.cyberpresse.ca/hetu/?p=70423317

If someone find an english reference, please post it.

From a post :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/25/pope-benedict-richard-williamson

[Hawkeye-X]

1. Parlez vous Anglaise?

S'il vous plait....

Hawkeye-X

[Sandrine for you]

4. Yes I do, please helpme found an english reference.

[HeresyLives]

2. Williamson has a lot of 'strange' views.

Like the SSPX in general, Williamson opposes the changes brought about by the Second Vatican Council, which he sees as liberal, neo-modernist, and destroying the Catholic Church.<27><30><29> Among the changes he decries are informality and simplicity in worship, preferring "beauty and majesty, beautiful music and vestments." Williamson considers the mainstream Catholic Church after the Second Vatican Council to be too forthcoming of other denominations and religions, viewing Ecumenism an error.<32><27> He has criticized the theological understanding of both Pope John Paul II, whom he attested a "weak grasp of Catholicism", and Pope Benedict XVI.<33><22>

Williamson holds strong views regarding gender roles and dress. He opposes the wearing of trousers or shorts by women,<34><35><36> and has urged more manliness in men.<35><36>

Williamson supports conspiracy theories regarding the assassination of President Kennedy and the collapse of the Twin Towers, denying that the latter were terrorist attacks but were instead staged by the U.S. government.<36><3><37>

Williamson has expressed controversial views about Jews. He called Jews "enemies of Christ" and urges their conversion to Catholicism.<38><39><40> He claims that Jews and Freemasons have contributed to the "changes and corruption" in the Catholic Church<41><42><43><38> He has also stated that Jews aim at world dominion<3><44> and believes that The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is an authentic document.<3><45> Williamson has denied that he is antisemitic, stating that he goes against "adversaries of Our Lord Jesus Christ", that not all Jews are such, and that he also attacks other groups such as Communists and Freemasons.<3><38><39><23>

Williamson has been charged with Holocaust denial.<38><43><46><42><47> He has denied the existence of gas chambers and has claimed that not six million but 200,000 to 300,000 Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps.<13><11> Williamson has also praised Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Williamson_(bishop)#Views

[Tangerine LaBamba]

3. What else would you expect?

Benny likes to have his fellow Nazis around him.

[Amonester]

5. williamson est un idiot

williamson is an idiot

c'est la seule importance qu'il a

:hi:

[Sandrine for you]

8. Yep, he is...

Thanks for your understanding.

:pals:

[Amonester]

10. Yes. And I would like to know where williamson was at the time..

my father risked his (young) days and nights flying over Germany for almost 3 years to help eradicate the crazies there the best way he could...

RIP Dad.

[Sandrine for you]

11. I'm sorry for your dad, he was an american hero.

We don't forget the young hero from USA who save the world from the new barbarism.

At the time, you got a leadership who every body in the world trust, I expect something big about Obama.

[Amonester]

12. My father was French-Canadian, Sandrine. =)

He told me American men were laughing at Canadians (at the time) because they often told them they were flying in "trash cans" compared to their own "high-tech" bombers (at the time), and in a sense, it was kind of true. Nevertheless, they did respect each other (for the good cause).

People here feel the same way you do about President Obama. :-)

[Sandrine for you]

13. Woaw, an american hero French-Canadian !

I'm pround of your father, and your new President. May He gave us concorde.

[SidDithers]

6. Guardian article here...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/25/pope-benedict-richard-williamson

I'm not sure if they were from Quebec. I couldn't find anything in Le Devoir, or the Montreal Gazette. Marcel Lefevbre was a French (France) Archbishop, not a French Canadian one.

Sid

[Sandrine for you]

9. Your right, I mistake him with an another one from Quebec. Thanks for the clarification.

[Faygo Kid]

7. Yes, this was appalling. Awful.

I don't speak French, but in any language, this was WRONG.

[kenny blankenship]

14. You guys are focusing on the holocaust denial aspect and missing the larger story

Ok, yes, it's true Pope Benedict has rehabilitated a former Bishop who was excommunicated for flirting with Holocaust Denial--or who maybe even took Holocaust Denial to the back seat of the Popemobile for heavy petting sessions once or twice.

But look at today's other four three lucky winners. What an astonishing story! Those Bishops all defied the authority of a Pope, by rejecting Vatican II and accepting their consecrations as Bishops from an Arch Bishop without the OK from Rome. These four three were excommunicated both for rejecting the Vatican Council and for assuming their new offices, but now they're redeemed again. Which means that this new Pope who everyone keeps saying is some kind of scary authoritarian is really saying to Catholics: Hey it's perfectly fine to tell a Pope to go take a flying leap, as long as you're doing it in the name of doctrines too regressive to be embraced in the modern age --like insisting that Mass be performed in a language no one in the congregation can understand, like belief in Biblical literalism, and like rejection of the modern notion of "freedom of religion."

They used to call him God's Rottweiler, but it turns out that Pope Benedict is just a bouncy, easy-going Golden Retriever of Forgiveness. So if you have some bone of contention with Benedict and you want to tell him to go take a flying leap, or maybe you just want to deny the holocaust, speak your mind! It's not like this Pope's going to sentence you to Hell for it, not forever anyway.

[HamdenRice]

15. Very interesting point. It's a whole different epistemology, similar to Bushism

Basically you are pointing out that there is no intellectual coherence to an authoritarian Pope elevating anti-authoritarians -- unless you accept the observation that to this Pope, the correctness of regressive doctrine is self-evident, and the incorrectness of Vatican II is and was obvious.

For the Bushistas, procedure meant nothing. All that mattered were outcomes. Now they are lamely trying to use arguments against Obama that applied perfectly to Bush, but they seem unable to comprehend their lack of consistency.

What a horrible set of ideas. A sad day for Catholicism -- one of many in the last decades since the slow (but now accelerating) overthrow of Vatican II began.

[Sandrine for you]

16. A good point, but

look, maybe if all He forgive is about antisemitism (The Mass in Latin is also a comeback of the positioning of jews like enemy of Christ...) and integrism, and not progressism (I'm pretty sure He will not forgive anyone about theology of liberation), maybe It tell something about is point of view and his project for the future of his religion. why the sexual question is so important for him ? Got some hints about that.

[kenny blankenship]

17. If I revise the last paragraph what I'm driving should be more clear

When I say "you missed the real story" I don't necessarily mean that. "taking Holocaust Denial for some heavy petting in the backseat of the Popemobile" is a cue that I'm about to say some things that I can't possibly mean in a literal sense. I don't think, for example, that Pope Benedict is like a bouncy, slobbery, handlicking Golden Retriever of Forgiveness. I would probably agree with your view of him, point for point. So here's my rewrite:

If you have some bone of contention with Benedict, if you want to tell him to go take a flying leap, just speak your mind Catholics! If you want to ordain some women priests, ordain women priests, If you want to marry two dudes, go ahead and pronounce them Adam and Steve, or get gay-married yourself. If you think the preferential option for the poor should be exercised in the visible world, and not just spoken of warmly, rise up and join the Socialist party. It's all OK now. Because this Pope's not going to send you to Hell for it--not everlastingly. Or if he does, the next one can't very well leave you there, not after the Church has pardoned a trio of schismatic bishops and welcomed back an unrepentant holocaust denier.

-=-=-=-
Forget the barking Rottweiler, and take your cue from these four lost lambs: speak up, act up. Defying the authority of Rome is not the end. If you do what you do in the name of Love, and you have to leave Rome to do it, Rome should come to you in time. You may be excommunicated for it for now. But after what Benedict has just done, extending forgiveness to renegade bishops on one hand, and to an apologist for Hate on the other hand, it's almost OBLIGED to come to your rescue. And if it will not, then what good is staying in the fold?

[Sandrine for you]

18. Ok I think I got your point,

You see it like some jurisprudence in the english system of law. With such huge move like this, everything is open after that. Sorry if it take me times to understand your point, I'm more used with code like the napoleon one. Maybe your right, I'm not sure if historically the Vatican work in that way, if he have this kind of temporal coherence.

Will see.

[knitter4democracy]

19. I think the message is that he's going to un-do Vatican II.

If that's what they were excommunicated for, and he's planning on rolling it back, then it makes sense to undo their excommunications.

[kenny blankenship]

20. I like to read the other message, unintended but there nonetheless

Which is that "Activism works." It worked on him.

If he wants to legitimize activist dissent with the Catholic Church and have dueling activism, then let's see what happens.

[anonymous171]

21. If he does that then I am out. nt

[knitter4democracy]

24. A lot of people will be.

Undoing Vatican II would be a huge, huge mistake.

[IndianaGreen]

23. As a young man, this Pope served Germany's Fuhrer, a figure of unchallenged authority

As a priest and later as a cardinal, he served the Pope, another figure of unchallenged authority. He is now Pope, and he sees his authority as being unchallenged as he drags the Catholic Church back to the days of the Inquisition.

[TreasonousBastard]

25. Actually, there's an even larger story...

coincidentally, I'm listening to a discussion of this on NPR right now.

Historically, Popes have done all they could to heal rifts in the Church. (They all remember that BIG one that split it in half)

Breakaway bishops have the ability to ordain other priests and bishops, and will no doubt ordain those who go along with their strange, even heretical, ideas, and this goes against the grain of a unified Church. Since Popes and cardinals have little actual ability in the real world to shut up renegade bishops, the only real alternative they have is to throw them out of the church. But, even after being thrown out they still can run their own operations and call them Catholic churches, ordaining like-minded priests.

This is considered not good for long-term Church prospects, so getting these renegade bishops back in the fold one way or another is of paramount importance. So, Bennie is bringing them back to slow down or stop this movement, but doesn't seem to to have thought through how the Holocaust denial thing will play, even though Holocaust denial itself has very little to do with this.

[struggle4progress]

22. See this thread from yesterday:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x195510

[SidneyCarton]

26. Herr Ratzinger has made a bitterly stupid mistake here.

He of all people should have known better, particularly as there was such an outcry about his own Nazi past when he was made Pope.