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moobu2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 11:02 AM
Original message
When Parents Call God Instead of the Doctor


Kara Neumann, of Weston, Wisconsin died Sunday, March 23, 2008, after her parents prayed for healing rather than getting medical help for a treatable form of diabetes.

On Easter Sunday of 2008, 11-year-old Kara Neumann of Weston, Wisconsin, suffered waves of nausea as she lay motionless on her deathbed, too weak to walk or speak. Kara's parents — both followers of the Unleavened Bread Ministries, an online church that shuns medical intervention — knelt in prayer beside their dying daughter. They did not call a doctor for help. A few hours later, Kara died of diabetes, a relatively common — and curable — condition.

Within weeks, a Wisconsin state attorney brought charges of reckless endangerment against Kara's parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann. The couple protested on grounds of religious freedom, but Judge Vincent Howard of Marathon County Circuit Court ordered Mr. and Mrs. Neumann to stand trial this spring. If convicted, each faces up to 25 years in prison. Unleavened Bread Ministries immediately released a statement saying the couple is being unfairly punished for the "crime of praying." (Read the top 10 religion stories of 2008.)

The Neumanns' highly anticipated trial has sparked new debate in a long-running battle over faith healing in the United States. Under current Wisconsin law, a parent cannot be convicted of child abuse or negligent homicide if they can prove they genuinely believed that calling God, instead of a doctor, was the best option available for their child. The law is part of the legacy of the 1996 Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act, which included a landmark exemption for parents who do not seek medical care for their children for religious purposes. While all states give social service authorities the right to intervene in cases of child neglect, criminal codes in 29 other states also provide additional protection for parents who forgo mainstream medical treatment. (Read TIME's cover story on God vs. Science.)

In light of Kara's high-profile case, faith-healing communities around the country are worried about losing their right to treat their children according to their religious beliefs. "The way the law is worded right now is confusing and makes it seem like we have a shield to recklessly endanger children," says Joe Farkas, legislative affairs representative for the Church of Christ, Scientist, in Wisconsin. The Church has teamed up with Wisconsin Democratic Sen. Lena Taylor to write new legislation that could repeal a provision in the state's child abuse and neglect statute that exempts parents from prosecution in some faith-healing cases, while creating a new "affirmative defense" for parents who made a "reasonable attempt" to provide medical care for their child. "We want to have an affirmative defense where parents relying on Christian Science treatment are given a fair opportunity to explain why they believed their action was in the best interest of their child," says Farkas. "Our church loves children and we want to protect children."

Very interesting article


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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. ... they should have their kids removed from their custody...
You can kill yourselves with religion if you want - you shouldn't get to kill kids.
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Christa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. Religion is a virus
that poisons the mind.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. The doctors that supplied Heath Ledger with enough pills to
kill him are questionable in my mind.
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. It was Heath who chose to injest; no doctor force fed him those pills.
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. True but taking enough of them can make you confused.He may have even taken
them in a sleep state as he was on Ambian or something like that. He could have just automatically popped more in his mouth. What a waste of talent.
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rd_kent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Could've, would've and should've
all belong in the same category. Your speculating on what MIGHT have happened. Regardless of the circumstances, he CHOSE to take the pills. That girl did not have the CHOICE to get medical help, she was held hostage by her parents BELIEFS. They should be punished for that.
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. That is why I called it "murder" and if you have ever known people who
are predisposed to addiction and are overmedicated also, you might know what I am talking about. It is only a guess but personally do not know nor claim to know.
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ChoralScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. There are a myriad of things in your own house, which, if you choose to ingest
enough of them, would kill you. That doesn't make your cleaning supplies manufacturer questionable...
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kiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
4. So sad.
A relative by marriage is a Christian Scientist. She provided medical care for her children when they were younger, saying that they could make their own religious choices when they became adults. Her eldest (now in her 50s) has a combination of disabilities, and the mother continues to make sure she receives a doctor's care. I've always admired her for making this choice.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
5. Yeah...that'll work. Call on an imaginary entity to come cure
your child.

Folks, there are real doctors over at the emergency room. They'll actually do something if your child is ill.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. "Christian Science" is a tragic oxymoron.
So these parents could go free 'if they really believed' God would help their child?

Then the people who teach that prayer is preferable to doctors should be shot.
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Don't whack the Christian Scientists
According to the story, they are trying to close that loophole in the law. I know a lot of Christian Scientists. They are very intelligent people with some unconventional beliefs about medicine. However, the church leaves it up to each individual to follow their own conscience about seeking medical care.

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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Wasn't referring specifically to them, but to the idea of 'faith based' science itself.
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yeah -- that is an oxymoron, but it's ironic that
the Christian Scientists' doctrine made sense at the time Mrs. Eddy came up with it. Her plan: don't drink, don't smoke, avoid stress, get in touch with your higher power, and above all, avoid doctors. Back in 1870, doctors were mostly quacks and butchers. They often left you worse than they found you.

Anyone could walk off the street and become a doctor -- and there were a dozen different competing medical systems. Few people know that 1910 was the first year that Columbia University Medical School required you to have a high school diploma to study there.

Now, we've gone the opposite of Mrs. Eddy and we think medicine can cure everything -- even things that aren't really medical problems. We seriously overtreat people and this is what causes lingering terminal illnesses that leave people calling Jack Kevorkian (at least they used to). For a lot of people, the medical industry and its arsenal of expensive and often useless medicines has become a religion -- and just as wacky as faith healing.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Regardless of the shortcomings of today's medicine,
or it's problems 140 years ago, there is no reason to defend CS's avoidance of it in favor of hoping some mysterious higher power will. What they've done to this child - and countless other children - is indefensible.

And I know of no one that called Kevorkian because of over treatment. People end their lives because their condition couldn't be fixed by medicine (or God for that matter).
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. CS didn't do it to this child -- it was another group
I feel people should be free to seek for themselves whatever treatment -- medical or religious -- that they want.

And people went to Kevorkian because they had been lured by doctors into extending their lives to the point where their lives were unbearable. Many people should just be told there is nothing they can do to "save" their lives -- and let them end as peacefully as possible. Instead, doctors treat and treat and treat (and bill and bill and bill) until a person's life becomes a living hell.

It happened to the wife of a friend of mine. She had terminal cancer and was facing a horrid death. Several times, she developed an infection or another condition that would have taken her with a minimum of suffering in a matter of days. Instead, the doctors rushed in and pumped this dying woman full of drugs to "cure" the immediate condition. She survived -- and spent the last nine months of her life as a total vegetable, except that she was aware of what was going on. She couldn't feed herself or even move. She was paralyzed and unable speak. She just lay in a bed for nine months in pain and staring at the ceiling.
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moobu2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. They’re attempting to influence a new regulation they know is coming.
And they're afraid they'll lose the right to practice their ignorance on their children so they‘re helping reword the law.

In light of Kara's high-profile case, faith-healing communities around the country are worried about losing their right to treat their children according to their religious beliefs.


they’re not willingly closing a loophole in the law.

The Church has teamed up with Wisconsin Democratic Sen. Lena Taylor to write new legislation that could repeal a provision in the state's child abuse and neglect statute that exempts parents from prosecution in some faith-healing cases, while creating a new "affirmative defense" for parents who made a "reasonable attempt" to provide medical care for their child. "We want to have an affirmative defense where parents relying on Christian Science treatment are given a fair opportunity to explain why they believed their action was in the best interest of their child,"


looks like they trying to make the law even more complicated and confusing. Why not just omit any religious exemption and hold them equally responsible for taking care of their children’s medical needs as anyone else would be?
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ChoralScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Yes - they place themselves in this dumbfounding, unprovable
catch-22:

If you have enough faith, God will do anything!

If he doesn't do it, you didn't have enough faith! Sorry. Try again next time!


It's a nice bit of circular reasoning.
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
14. If that Law goes into effect, they can murder their own kids and get away with it
That is what it is...murder.
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