Indulgences! Get yer indulgences here!

[TechBear_Seattle]

For Catholics, a Door to Absolution Is Reopened

The announcement in church bulletins and on Web sites has been greeted with enthusiasm by some and wariness by others. But mainly, it has gone over the heads of a vast generation of Roman Catholics who have no idea what it means: "Bishop Announces Plenary Indulgences."

In recent months, dioceses around the world have been offering Catholics a spiritual benefit that fell out of favor decades ago — the indulgence, a sort of amnesty from punishment in the afterlife — and reminding them of the church’s clout in mitigating the wages of sin.

The fact that many Catholics under 50 have never sought one, and never heard of indulgences except in high school European history (Martin Luther denounced the selling of them in 1517 while igniting the Protestant Reformation), simply makes their reintroduction more urgent among church leaders bent on restoring fading traditions of penance in what they see as a self-satisfied world.

"Why are we bringing it back?" asked Bishop Nicholas A. DiMarzio of Brooklyn, who has embraced the move. "Because there is sin in the world."

And, no doubt, a great deal of money to be had, an especial consideration seeing as how much Church money has gone out to settle lawsuits about pedophile priests.

The article continues at http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/nyregion/10indulgence.html

[FiveGoodMen]

1. Anyone who could read the Bible and then be dumb enough to believe this stuff is beyond hope or help

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

2. Nice post, Martin Luther

tell Hus the coast is clear now?

[angrycarpenter]

3. Isn't this how the movie "Dogma" started?

[hobbit709]

4. Yep!

[DCKit]

5. Who knew God delegated the right to judge (and forgive)? n/t

[Occam Bandage]

8. Matthew 16:18-19.

[hvn_nbr_2]

6. Who let Bishop Barnum out?

:hide:

[Occam Bandage]

7. To be clear, the sale of indulgences is still banned, as it has been for centuries.

Which isn't to say that indulgences are automatically good or that they cannot be abused, but doing such would require a form of money laundering (which I would not put below some members of the faith).

[TechBear_Seattle]

9. Rrom the article

You cannot buy one — the church outlawed the sale of indulgences in 1567 — but charitable contributions, combined with other acts, can help you earn one.

In other words, you can make a "contribution" to the Church and get one in exchange.

[Occam Bandage]

10. "In other words" is, you know, other words.

Obviously anyone could bribe a corrupt bishop to say the right words for them. That'll be the case as long as people believe the heir to St. Peter holds the Keys to Heaven. However, the selling of indulgences is still against Church law, and has been for centuries. "Well someone's probably going to break that law" is rarely a good argument against a law or a law-giver, and I'm not any more impressed with it here.

I don't think it's fair to take the idea, "the Church will look at contributions to charities as favorable evidence of good works being done," and then twist that into, "the Church is selling indulgences to pay for pedophiles."

[varkam]

11. But why is that such a crazy notion? eom

[Occam Bandage]

12. It certainly isn't crazy to suggest that unscrupulous bishops will

try to con a few extra thousand out of gullible old ladies, nor to suggest that they will, as per custom, be protected by the great opaque machine called the Roman Catholic Church.

I think it is, however, a bit unfair to suggest that such wrongdoing is the point. That's about as fair, I think, as suggesting that the purpose of altar boys is anal sex, or that the purpose of the jilbab is to cover up a suicide-bomber's vest.

[varkam]

13. Well, maybe not necessarily to pay out damages...

But it seems that the stated purpose is to reinvigorate interest in the catholic church, and that contributions will be looked favorably upon when seeking indulgences. That isn't just some corrupt bishop talking - that's the party line. Whether or not the money goes to pay for Pope Ratzy's golden throne or paying out damages is, imo, hardly the point. It seems to me like a transparent bid for the benjamins.

[Occam Bandage]

15. I understand where you're going with that, and agree that the potential for abuse

is so great as to almost appear to be the point. However, contributions to the Church in particular are not what is being solicited, unless I have horrendously misread and unless my understanding of the Catholic Church is off base. Rather, it seems to me that contribution of money or time to charity in general constitutes one part of the "good works" that would lead the Church to look more favorably upon a petitioner. That is the party line.

Whether bishops might in practice nudge interested parties towards moving the Church to the top of the charity list is of course a valid concern; certainly this type of behavior would be considered scandalous if it were in politics and not in religion (and that is saying quite a bit). Still, I don't accept that abuse of a system inherently means that the system's purpose is that same abuse.

[varkam]

17. So then can you explain to me how indulgences differ from regular Christianity?

:shrug:

[TechBear_Seattle]

14. Define "sell"

Is there a meaningful difference between "You gave $1000, so you will be given a plenary indulgence" and "$1000 for a plenary indulgence"?

[Occam Bandage]

16. Sure, if it's "you gave $1000 to a local children's hospital." nt

[Dorian Gray]

18. Just a question

I don't think that these indulgences involve paying to play. They are offered in lieu of the normal penitential activities, usually a reward for some sort of spiritual activity. I may be totally wrong here, of course. I was under the impression, however, that this had nothing to do with paying for Heaven.

[Jokerman]

19. NOW with a DOUBLE YOUR MONEY back GUARANTEE!

If we grant you an indulgence and you still end up in hell after you die, just return your receipt in person, along with proof that (1) you are in fact dead and (2) you are currently relegated to hell, and we will give you twice the amount of money we extorted from you.*


*This offer void where prohibited by the laws of nature. Limit one refund per customer. For purposes of this guarantee, limbo, purgatory and certain inner city neighborhoods DO NOT count as hell.

[TechBear_Seattle]

20. And this month's special: 25% off your indulgences for sins starting with B

That would include blasphemy, burglary and (sound of a sheep).



Sorry, I was channelling a skit from "In Living Color." :hi: