Initiative Measure No. 1040 concerns a supreme ruler of the universe.

[pokerfan]

The latest from my state...

Assigned Number: 1040
Filed: 01/15/2009
Sponsor: Ms. Kimberlie Struiksma
PO Box 501
Blaine, WA 98231
360-332-2181
Fax: [phone]
[e-mail]

This measure would prohibit state use of public money or lands for anything that denies or attempts to refute the existence of a supreme ruler of the universe, including textbooks, instruction or research.

This measure would require state government not to use public funds or property for anything that denies or attempts to refute the existence of a supreme ruler of the universe, including but not limited to appropriations for displays, textbooks, scientific endeavors, instruction, and research projects. The measure would provide that no person shall be questioned based on their personal values, beliefs, or opinions regarding the existence of a supreme ruler of the universe.

http://www.secstate.wa.gov/elections/initiatives/text/i1040.pdf

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[ixion]

1. Unconstitutional... end of story

IMO.

[jobycom]

4. Still disgusting as hell.

[pokerfan]

5. Like that's going to stop anyone?

[TechBear_Seattle]

9. That is irrelevant

The Washington Supreme Court has consistently maintained that there can be no prior restraint on initiatives: the Court cannot intervene or offer an opinion until and unless it is passed and becomes law.

[ixion]

11. there is no way to challenge it prior to becoming a law?

I mean, maybe the court can't intervene, but perhaps someone with a functioning brain can tell the whacko fundies they don't have an exclusive.

[TechBear_Seattle]

13. Nope

The state constitution carefully lays out the provisions of initiatives in Article II, Section 1, subsection (a). The constitution places initiatives as equivalent to acts of the Legislature and does not explicitly allow court intervention; therefore, the Court has always held that the same jurisdictional issues apply to initiatives that apply to legislative acts. In other words, the Court cannot act, even to issue a non-binding opinion, until the matter is one of law and parties with legal standing to petition the court do so.

[pokerfan]

14. Meanwhile this state is staring at a $3B deficit

and we have to waste time, energy and money on bullshit like this.

[TechBear_Seattle]

16. Actually, it is a $6 billion deficit. But no public money will be spent on this initiative

Until and unless initiative backers collect the minimum number of signatures necessary to make the ballot (I believe it is still 244,880), ALL costs are borne by the backers. Here is the process in Washington.

1) I file an initiative to the people by submitting the initiative text, an affidavit affirming that I am filing an initiative, and a nominal filing fee, to the Secretary of State.

2) The SoS sends me a notice that the initiative has been received, and passes the text on to the state's Office of the Code Revisor. The OCR reviews the text, puts it into proper statutory form, and prepares an opinion indicating potential conflicts with existing law. The revised text and opinion, along with a certificate of review, are sent to the sponsor.

3) The sponsor looks over the revised text and opinion. These revisions and opinions are optional; the sponsor may implement them fully, partially or not at all. The current text of the initiative and the certificate of review are returned to the Secretary of State.

4) The SoS has now officially received the initiative. It is given a serial number, and the office prepares the official short title and summary. The ballot sponsor is notified.

5) There is a 5 business day window to challenge the title and summary, which is done by filing suit in Thurson County (the home county of the state capitol, Olympia.) The party that files suit must bear all court costs.

6) After the above window closes, the sponsor prints and distribute petitions, and begins to collect signatures.

Through this time, the cost to the state is minimal. The current fee to file an initiative is $5; there has been talk of raising it to $100. If that goes through (and I would not mind if it did), the filing fee would just about cover all of the state's cost to this point.

Once the sponsor has collected enough signatures to make the ballot, the petitions are turned in to the Secretary of State's office. This initial turn-in must contain at least the minimum number of signatures required, ie the sponsor cannot turn in a few here and a few there. Then, and only then, is there significant cost to the state, as employees of the SoS must validate the petitions. The costs to validate the petitions and, if enough signatures are turned in, to add the initiative to state voter information pamphlets and put it on the ballot, are justified by the considerable public support that has been shown.

So in Washington, merely filing an initiative, getting it into a form to receive a serial number and collecting signatures costs the state very little. Even if the initiative is blatantly unconstitutional or mere political street theater, it cannot really be called a waste of state resources or abuse of the people's legislative authority.

[pokerfan]

17. Where did I say that it was an abuse?

:shrug: If it passes then it will take considerable effort to overturn it which seems like a waste of everyone's time.

[TechBear_Seattle]

18. I didn't mean to imply that you called it an abuse

That was a different poster, elsewhere in this thread. Sorry.

And if it passes -- meaning it gets enough signatures to make the ballot and then gets enough votes to become law -- then waste of time or not, the people have spoken. I think that would merit the cost of a court review.

[GodlessBiker]

2. That's the "Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler" to you, thank you.

[jobycom]

3. I guess they are afraid someone would succeed. I see no other reason for such a law.

If someone truly believes there is a God, wouldn't they want to fund out the wazzoo any attempt to argue or prove God doesn't exist, knowing that all evidence would prove the opposite?

I think the reason some believers are so terrified of atheists is that they are afraid we are right.

Reminds me of the a bumper sticker I saw recently: Agnostics Against Bush. Some things even we know for certain.

[foxfeet]

6. Yet another abuse of the initiative process.

Maybe she's hoping to become the Tim Eyman of crazy fundie issues. (Washingtonians will recognize who Eyman is.) Can't wait for "Pastors" Hutcherson and Fuiten to weigh in on this.

How about a cross-post into the Washington State forum?

[TechBear_Seattle]

10. How is this an abuse?

Until and unless the filer gets enough signatures, no public money is spent. If enough signatures are turned in to merit counting and validating them, then there is enough public interest to merit public cost.

I agree that the initiative system needs to be tweaked to allow for legal opinion before an initiative is submitted, but that does not make initiatives like this an abuse.

[foxfeet]

19. Because in this case it advances a blatantly religious agenda that on its face is unconstitutional.

And they don't need enough validated signatures to incur public cost, just enough "signatures," however they were obtained. BTW, are you using the phrase "initiative system" to mean something other than the initiative process?

I understand that the original intent of the initiative system was as a remedy for the "tyranny of the legislature." I'll even grant that this may sometimes be necessary. It is a lousy way to RUN a government as we have seen in recent years. Few initiatives consider the larger picture of the state and are too often used to throw a monkey wrench into the workings of government with the inevitable unforeseen consequences beyond the original wording of the initiative.

[Dollface]

7. As the SROTU I have no problem with this. And if you don't believe I'm the SROTU then I challenge

you to prove I am not. Oh wait, this law says you can't refute my existence.

Shesh! Everyone knows the founding dads were pandering when they threw in the Creator language.

[MineralMan]

8. Aha! The Great Spaghetti Monster cannot be denied now!

I see churches being built across America, dedicated to the true Supreme being. Each church will have dozens of worship tables, covered with red checked tablecloths for the use of those partaking of the sacramental pasta.

A new day is dawning. And, once this law is passed, nobody can speak against it. Woohoo!

[TechBear_Seattle]

12. The Global Standard Deity n/t

[nykym]

15. My spook is better

than your spook

[elshiva]

20. My dog's better than your dog, My dog's better than yours!

He eats the right kind of dog food, we eat the right kind of god food.

[maxsolomon]

21. Ah, Blaine

first you give us Luke Ridinour, now this? you're too good to us.