Church of Scientology on trial in France

[Old Coot]

Source: AFP

PARIS (AFP) – The Church of Scientology and six of its French leaders went on trial on Monday on charges of organised fraud that could lead to an outright ban on the organisation in France.

Known for its Hollywood celebrity followers Tom Cruise and John Travolta, the group is in the dock in Paris for the second time in six years, although French courts have prosecuted several individual Scientologists since 1978.

The court is hearing a complaint from two women, one of whom alleges she was manipulated into handing over 20,000 euros (28,000 dollars) for costly Scientology products, such as an "electrometer" to measure mental energy.

She says she was approached in a Paris street by a Scientologist in late 1998 who offered a free personality test, at a time when she was feeling psychologically fragile.

After being told that her test results were poor, the woman was sold a series of "life-improvement courses", vitamins and other products that she could ill afford, landing her in debt.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090525/lf_afp/francetrialfraudscientology_20090525144937

---

I think it is about time that someone goes after this faux "religion". It amazes me that this con, founded by a failed science fiction writer, is accepted as a true religion in the U.S. Surely "Freedom of Religion" has some limitations.

[LostinVA]

1. Good!

[HowHasItComeToThis]

26. IT IS A PONZI SCHEME

[HowHasItComeToThis]

27. PSYCHIATRY CLAIMED THEY WERE PRACTICING PSYCHIATRY WITHOUT A LICENSE

THAT is when they became a CHURCH

[grantcart]

2. a 'failed' science fiction writer

You can still talk to agents in Hollywood who were approached and declined publishing his science fiction work. He was living on friends couches unable to sell his work when he decided to make money with religion instead.

His science fiction work, like his other publications, only became viable when supporters would buy and then resell his work by the box in order to generate highly inflated publication numbers that got it onto the NYT's lists. The parrallels between Scientology and the failed career of Joseph Smith -con man, are remarkable.

[imdjh]

6. Exactly- the LDS is probably why Scientology passes the test

The LDS being a "real church" for legal purposes, despite the fact that we know a great deal about how it came about, is part of why Scientology passes the legal tests if not the smell test. But we can't really lay it all on the LDS either.

Mary Baker Eddy is described as having had "discovered" Christian Science. An interesting word, "discovered", suggesting that it's a knowledge, technology, or element which was already in existence.

But we have the grease for the true slippery slope when it comes to Scientology. Most of it is more or less psychology, metaphysics, and bits and pieces of Buddhism as I understand it. But then we have the mythology of Xenu and the Thetans, which we could (and do) rightly mock. But we also mock most other mythologies. We can rightly ask ourselves how it is that intelligent people believe in the Xenu and the Body Thetans theme, but most of us assume that people we consider intelligent regard the mythology of their own "true religion" as a metaphor/allegory for the unknown.

We have people making up all kinds of shit all the time, and for the most part we take it in stride, especially if we associate the religion with social or political elements that we approve of. If Republicans had invented calling themselves Wiccans- we'd be all over it trashing it sideways. But since Wicca is largely nice people, people who are often kind to and don't eat animals, people who vote with us, we give it a pass. How is Wicca not bullshit? Because there is no money in it? I'm betting there is, someplace.

[onager]

11. Hollywood Hubbard!

The story of his short-lived "Cine Org" is hilarious, like most things Scientological:

He had an idea for a feature film called *Revolt in the Stars*, a dramatization of high-level Scientology training about events which happened seventy-five million years ago when an evil ruler by the name of Xenu massacred the populations of seventy-six planets, transported their frozen spirits back to earth and exploded them in volcanoes.

Later actually filmed, sort of, as the funniest comedy in movie history, Battlefield Earth. But that was long after El Ron got himself "freed from the corporeal plane." Or in normal language, "kicked the bucket."

He also wanted to make films that could be used for recruiting and instruction within the church and the more he thought about the idea of being a film director, the more he liked it. He was sixty-six years old and had only ever shot home movies, but he did not consider his age or lack of experience to be any kind of drawback...

'(Hubbard) had poor eyesight and he was running the cameras, so the shots were often out of focus and he'd scream at the cameraman, "You can't frame a shot!" Or he'd hear a hum on the microphone and start yelling, "Sound! Sound! You fucking idiots! Get off the set!"'

:rofl:

From Bare-Faced Messiah by Russell Miller, and the whole text is available at the link. (Click on the convicted felon!) This is the UNCENSORED British version. $cientlology went to court and forced cuts in the U.S. publication:

http://www.nots.org/

[grantcart]

21. I have a friend Maurice who tells of buying Hubbard coffee and listening to his

whinning when he couldn't get anyone to buy his manunscript when Hubbard was basically living from friend to friend's house and never had more than $5 in his pocket.

Maurice was the agent for Steve Miller Band at the time and was memorialized in the song Joker


Some people call me the space cowboy.
Yeah! Some call me the gangster of love.
Some people call me Maurice,
'Cause I speak of the pompatus of love.


Maurice is real old school and although he is in his 80s still has a baseball bat in his back seat to handle any 'punks' that want take him on!!

[imdjh]

3. Slight correction- Scientology is not accepted as a true religion

Whatever a true religion is, Scientology is not accepted as one, even around here in Scientology Central. It's accepted by the government as qualifying for the same treatment as other religions under law- but everyone else pretty much accepts it for what it is. The problem is that we're not quite sure what it is. We suspect it's a scam, but scams usually have someone hauling off the cash. Even if you find the "one" hauling off the cash, then you have to ask how he is different from any of the leaders of churches who live in wealth.

Every time I try to attack Scientology, I end up defending it. Ultimately, every objection to Scientology can be matched with a similar practice in "true" religions.

[IDFbunny]

25. Well said

Kooks have rights to.

[tomm2thumbs]

4. some uninvited global scrutiny for these folks - will be interesting how they frame this

sometimes playing the martyr can get you more support/sympathy and I'm guessing that will be one angle they'll take

[imdjh]

7. The same way they always do- angrily and viciously. My guess.

The COS does not take kindly to being attacked. And they aren't afraid of local governments for the most part.

[ismnotwasm]

5. I remember taking those tests

In the '70's. We were a group of street kids and those fuckers were out recruiting. Just what kids on the street need, huh? Manipulative weirdos telling them they're fucked up.

I know I "failed", but I don't remember what they said. I thought it was bullshit then and nothing has changed my mind since.

[Starry Messenger]

8. That is welcome news.

I wish the same would happen here. I get sick of the fraudsters here claiming Freedom of Religion/Speech when they are clearly peddling dangerous nonsense. The sheer amount of money the COS charge for "services" should have been a heads up to the IRS way back when.

[DetlefK]

9. South Park had a great solution: offer your help for free

All religions have the dogma "Follow my way, obey my rules and you will find salvation."

Scientology is the only religion I know that says "Buy my products and you will find salvation."

[Starry Messenger]

12. Charging for it is actually part of their "scripture".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrine_of_Exchange

http://www.usdoj.gov/osg/briefs/1988/sg880419.txt

"The Church charges a "fixed donation" for training courses and
auditing intensives. These charges are set forth in schedules, and
they vary depending upon the length and content of the programs (with
the price per hour generally declining for longer programs) (see J.A.
97, 99, 115, 121-125). The charges for each particular program,
however, do not vary; they are quite substantial, /2/ and they are
almost never waived. Indeed, an official policy letter issued by the
Church states that "(p)rice cuts are forbidden under any guise" and
that "PROCESSING MAY NEVER BE GIVEN AWAY BY AN ORG." (Pet. App. 39a
n.6). /3/ The Church does offer a standard 5% discount on its
programs, however, if full payment is made in advance of the services
to be rendered (id. at 40a; J.A. 121). Under certain conditions,
refunds are available for "undelivered" services if an individual does
not complete a particular program. The refund must be sought in
writing within 90 days, and the individual must undertake to release
the Church from further obligation. A 12% administrative charge is
deducted from the refund, and the Church will not again audit or train
an individual who obtains a refund. J.A. 104-105. Applicants for
auditing and training are expected to sign enrollment forms accepting
the conditions under which these services are rendered (see J.A.
131-133). This system of mandatory, fixed charges for its programs is
an application of a tenet of the Church, the "doctrine of exchange,"
which provides that "anytime a person receives something, he must pay
something back" (Pet. App. 38a-39a)."

[imdjh]

13. As opposed to tithing. nt

[Starry Messenger]

16. Scientology calls what it does "tithing".

If you have ever read how they get people to cough up money they don't have for services that are dangerous to mental health you will encounter several unusual differences from the "norm". If you have some time today, you might enjoy the Fishman affidavit.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/fishman/index2.html

Steve Fishman's story--
http://www.xs4all.nl/~fishman/history.html

[imdjh]

17. I've done my homework. COS is bad, no argument. Not only that, they're homophobic.

Isn't it amazing how different religions can be, but they all seem to find homophobia useful?

However, that's not the point here. The point is the similarities and differences, and IMO the similarities win.

[Starry Messenger]

20. Yes, I agree with you personally.

I'm an atheist and no big fan of organized religion. I just think it would be easier to take down Scientology as a fraud in our legal system if we could peel them off of their position that they are very similar to other more traditional forms of worship. The big monotheistic religions are not going anywhere soon, so in my opinion it would be better to not allow Scientology to own the same definitions. It's just a thought.

I totally hear you about the homophobia, although the Catholic rank and file are breaking away in serious numbers from the hierarchy's position (from what I've heard).

[juno jones]

10. There is also a recent case of the sister of a French CoS mucky-muck

who was kidnapped and held in a filth-ridden room in Italy for several weeks because she had apparently been depressed and was consdering psychiatric help. Shades of Lisa McPherson.

She escaped because she kept throwing objects marked 'help' into a neighbor's back yard.

The French police are trying to get her to testify, but last I knew she was too frightened to do so because of her brother and his goons.

[flyarm]

14. Sure wish we could get them on trial in Clearwater Fl their headquarters!

the blank eyes of the kids i see going through indocrination is horrible..

the the parents who try to get their kids out ..that are kept from their kids at their compound is really disheartening!

And do not for a moment think it is just repubs involved with them..many in our DEC here are involved heavily with Scientology! They give good $$$$$$$ to both parties! By many nafarious ways.

Tney own our town..and our county...
oh and we are the Anchor of the I-4 CORRIDOR IN FLA...one of the most important voting blocks in the nation for presidential races...hope you get my drift!

They have infiltrated our Dem party down here in Fl.

[imdjh]

18. So is or isn't Brian Aungst a bot?

[donco6]

15. Scientology is as much a religion as any of the others.

It operates exactly like all the rest. What's the difference?

[imdjh]

19. No differences that I can see.

• collect money from the faithful
• do charity work to convince the public that you are good people
• regard homosexuals as "less than"
• indoctrinate children from an early age
• collect more money and diss homosexuals
• revere the prophet and revealer of truth
• buy buildings and build new ones
• collect money from the dead
• hire lawyers to sure governments, corporations, and individuals who oppose you
• shun the apostate
• shun the unworthy
• demand obedience
• collect money
• don't pay taxes on your real estate

[moobu2]

22. They’re no worse than any other religion

Kind of funny to watch Christians make fun of other peoples superstitions

[donco6]

23. It's like a room full of naked emperors -

pointing out how no one has any clothes on.

[get the red out]

24. Good for France!

The Europeans are way ahead of us American Neanderthals socially. They know shit when they smell it (and are actually allowed within their laws to do something about it before it hurts a lot of people). Good for them.

Cults are dangerous. No one can change my mind on that. When people want to support the rights of cults I am sorry they are so without empathy that they don't give a damn about the lives of others.