Is it offensive when someone assumes you are a religious follower by saying phrases like

[rd_kent]

"I will pray for you" or "god help you"?

[Posteritatis]

1. This agnostic doesn't see the assumption and takes the phrase as a compliment. (nt)

[customerserviceguy]

21. I get customers who say those sort of things to me every day

I take it as a compliment to my abilities to help them, and let it go at that.

[roguevalley]

70. affectations of speech are often either habit or a sweetness on the

part of the speaker. I don't take offense or make assumptions about it. There are bigger wars to fight. I just thank them.

[RagAss]

2. No, it's pitiful. I pity the mentally ill.

[bobburgster]

18. That is disrespectful to people who have those beliefs

And it is intolerant.

If you believe you have the right to be atheist without having to have people bother you about it, you should be willing to reciprocate.

[RagAss]

47. Intolerant?...You mean like the Crusades ?...or September 11th?

It's organized delusion and it has messed up the world for thousands of years.

[rd_kent]

65. Hold up a sec.

If you believe you have the right to be atheist without having to have people bother you about it, you should be willing to reciprocate.

SO, by that logic, if I dont say anything first, and I get a "may god bless you", I should not respond?


And since when did I have to be respectful of peoples BELIEFS? I will always respect their right TO believe, but in no way am I obligated to respect WHAT they believe.

[madrchsod]

40. ..the mentally ill do not want your pity

[TreasonousBastard]

42. And it took only one minute this time for some pantload to...

insult half the board here.

That must be the record.

[demosincebirth]

46. You are right, we knew it was comming. Another one to add to my "ignore list."

[MineralMan]

3. I just say, "and I'll think for you" or "I have all the help I need."

Works a treat.

[Christa]

4. I used to be offended

but not any more.

Their intentions are good, and who am I to deny them wishing me well?

[gateley]

5. I just say 'thank you' because usually they mean well. Although when someone

assumes I'm a Christian "a Christian like you and me" -- THAT pisses me off.

[customerserviceguy]

23. I did have a situation where I went above and beyond for a customer

and after a couple of comments about my positive attitude to work on solving her problem, she asked, "Are you a Christian?" I replied, "No, but I'm still a nice person!"

Sometimes they need to know that they are not the only good folks out there.

[JerseygirlCT]

55. I like your answer. That was handled well, IMO. nt

[gateley]

58. I REALLY like that response! I'm using it -- thanks!! (Although nobody in

Seattle seems to ask, but I sure got it a LOT in North Carolina!)

[rd_kent]

66. Did you need to include the word "still"?

As in "No, but I am a good person". Adding "still" implies that not all unbeleivers are good people.

[JerseygirlCT]

54. I'm Christian and *I'd* find that assumption ignorant as well. nt

[rox63]

6. I think of it like someone saying "Bless you" when I sneeze

If they want to send good wishes for me to their imaginary friend in the sky, I'm not offended.

[elocs]

7. I think maybe just growing a skin is in order and just deal with it.

Really, do people here just desperately look for things to be pissed off about? There's a lot to be said for just being gracious.

[Posteritatis]

26. Hey, I resent that!

;)

[JuniperLea]

28. I agree...

And I do think some people just look desperately for things to be pissed off about. It doesn't cost any thing to be gracious. I'll take it one step further and say it's just plain rude to be mean to someone with good intentions.

[rd_kent]

30. So it would not be offensive if someone said "you dont need god, just believe in yourself'?

as a statement of graciousness?

[JuniperLea]

38. If I were still a Christian...

I would find it hella offensive. And now, I would be offended on their behalf.

[TreasonousBastard]

44. Offensive? Maybe. Rude and pointless? Definately.

[rd_kent]

49. Then why is it ok to tell someone "may god bless you"?

[TreasonousBastard]

51. Because the the "God bless you" comments are simply...

commonly accepted meaningless conversation points. No more significant than "Have a nice day." When you go off on a tangent that might actually mean something, you have changed the entire social situation.

[JerseygirlCT]

56. Because it's simply well-meaning

it says nothing about what you do or ought to believe. It merely reflects the well-wisher's beliefs. Why in the world would you assume it has anything to do with your own?

If you don't believe that there's such thing as "luck", would you find a friendly "good luck!" insulting as well?

I think you're finding the mere fact that someone else has religious belief to be insulting to you. And that's just too bad.

[rd_kent]

61. You dont think an atheist/agnostic can be well-meaning?

By saying "have a reality based day" or "may reality enlighten you" if meant as a sincere gesture of well wishing?

[JerseygirlCT]

69. No, because those are suggesting a flaw in what the other person

believes. Saying "I'll pray for you" makes no such assumption. It only indicates what the believer will be doing.

If your outlook is so "reality-based" then perhaps the correct analog is an offer of tangible assistance. "I can see you're having a hard day. May I carry that bag for you to your car?"

Do you find it possible to define your own philosophy without impugning others'?

[Nihil]

75. Well-meaning and also (often) a habit they grew into.

> If you don't believe that there's such thing as "luck", would you
> find a friendly "good luck!" insulting as well?

Similarly, is a parting comment/response of "Cheers!" insulting to
a teetotaller? Or maybe only a thin-skinned or sh*t-stirring one?

:shrug:

[TreasonousBastard]

43. +1

[rd_kent]

63. So, others should "grow a skin and deal with it"

if I say "have a reality based day" or "May reality enlighten you"?

[lillypaddle]

8. "Have a 'blessed' day"

People say that alllll the time here in Georgia, and even leave it on their voice mail message. The idea is nice enough, but I always get aggravated because I assume there is a right wing, religious zealot behind the words. Just sounds weird. Probably just my own hangup. When I was diagnosed with breast cancer some years ago, I suddenly didn't mind it so much when people said they would pray for me. Hypocrisy, I guess. Isn't there an old expression that, paraphrased, goes something like this: "there are no deathbed atheists"?

[imdjh]

13. I might make an exception in my light and sweet demeanor for that.

Fortunately, no one around here says "Have a blessed day."

Curious are they saying "blesst" or "bless-said" ?

[lillypaddle]

24. "blesssst"

:)

[iris27]

20. Gah...my MOTHER used to have that as the signoff on her outgoing message.

Thankfully she has since had to get a new phone, and evidently forgot to do it this time around. I was always tempted to end the message I was leaving with "have a rational day!" just to get her riled up, but I never did.

ETA: For the pronunciation-curious, hers was bless-ed, ala Shakespeare.

[JerseygirlCT]

57. Well, perhaps you were simply

taking their prayers for you in the way it was meant - as a sign of their caring for you. Regardless of your own beliefs or non-belief, their words meant that they cared for you, and that probably means something to most of us.

Boy, when we get to the point that people caring for one another is a problem, we're really in trouble! I don't think you were being a hypocrite in the least - just allowing that others' expression of concern might take a different form than your own.

[dbonds]

9. And I will cast a protection spell for you.

[rd_kent]

31. Uh, thanks?

[dbonds]

36. I meant that as a good reply.

[rd_kent]

64. OK, thanks then. "Have a reality based day!"

[JBoy]

10. Not at all. Unless it's preceded by the statement "you sure drink a lot".

[glowing]

11. I drove by the clinic that performs abortions.. and the idgets were out

with their signs "Pray to end Abortion". I seriously need to stop one day with a large giant sized sign with an arrow pointing their way that says "These People Want Me to Have MY RAPIST'S Baby!" And another sign that says, "these people are Pro-Life until the Baby is Born." And then another, "how many unwanted children around the world are you personally taking care of?"

When they can answer or defend all of those questions/ statements, then we can talk about praying, until then I pray for everyone to survive this crazy world.

[stray cat]

12. I prefer people who say nice things to those who give me the finger

I'll take nice and polite

[realisticphish]

14. depends on the context

if you say "I have cancer," and they say "I will pray for you," that's cool.

If they say that when they find out you're a non believer, then it's irritating, though (as in, praying for your soul)

edit: then, not than

[bobburgster]

19. Yeah that is quite offensive nt

[madrchsod]

41. i`m a believer in christ`s teachings and i`ve gotten the "i`ll pray for you"

some people can`t accept that others have their own belief in what jesus means to them.

[frylock]

15. i usually respond with "have an annointed day"

i got that from Mortimer Mango.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URLLZfvTOwU

[bobburgster]

Those don't bother me

I think it is sweet when people offer to pray for me.

But others do bother me, such as people talking about how something was God's will, or how they are trusting in God to take care of them - the sort of thing church people would say to each other. I dislike having to hear that.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

16. And I say, "If she's not too busy....". n/t

[lillypaddle]

25. Perfect!

Thanks. I'm using that.

[FlyingSquirrel]

17. I don't think they are assuming any such thing

They are merely stating what they are going to do. Or what their wishes are.

If someone wished you a "Happy Ramadan" and you were not Muslim, would you be offended? I wouldn't. I'd just take it in the manner in which it was offered - a good wish which reflected the person's beliefs.

[rd_kent]

67. No, I do not get offended.

But if I, as an atheist, say "Have a reality based day" or "may reality enlighten you", should BELIEVERS be offended?

[FlyingSquirrel]

68. Probably.. since your purpose

in saying something like that would be to claim that you have the answers and they don't. Or that they're living in the clouds, whatever. Whereas in the OP, we're talking about a simple "I'll pray for you" which is an "I"-statement saying what THAT person intends to do, is an expression of THEIR faith, and is not necessarily intended to attack or change the other person's beliefs. Not all people of faith are religious, and not all people of faith or religion make any attempt at persuading other people to come around to their way of thinking / believing. In fact it's probably a very small (yet vocal) minority who do.

As a former die-hard atheist I can see how easy it would be for the person being told this to jump to conclusions and immediately assume that the person was trying in some small way to convert them to his/her religion, or any of a number of other things which would feel offensive. I guess the best thing to remember is "don't believe everything you think." That goes for me especially - I can quickly turn the smallest thing (which was not even intended in the negative way I take it) into the biggest offense imaginable against me personally.

Essentially my point is, you don't want someone to try and convert you to any kind of faith or religion, or to in any other way make you feel uncomfortable in that regard or attack your beliefs - so you might want to consider using the Golden Rule and not do the same to others (atheism is a belief, and so is agnosticism).

That doesn't necessarily mean you have to put up with a bunch of religious crap all the time - I personally just try to let it roll off my back and realize that it will be quickly gone, and I attempt to be as kind as possible to the person. If someone is making a concerted effort to convert me, or I am feeling extremely uncomfortable for a period longer than I think is reasonable, I'll say something or do something (in the kindest possible way) - but I will do my best to not be coming from a position of "I know the truth, and you don't", and to not offend them in return. (It's "Do as you would HAVE others do unto you" - not "Do as others DO unto you".)

:)

[Uben]

22. How can you be angry with someone who wishes you well?

It doesn't matter what the words are, it's the effort. Anyone who goes to the trouble to wish you well deserves at least a thank you. I would probably wish them well in my own words as a response.

[safeinOhio]

29. You are right

it cost nothing to be nice.:hug:

[appamado amata padam]

27. It usually doesn't bother me -

"Pray" and "God" can mean different things to different people - some would say, "positive energy, Dude." It usually means friendly, and not self-righteous, intentions.

[old mark]

32. I just recall that 100 is the average IQ, and many people are below that number.

I get offended when "religious" people think I am an agnostic because I don't know about the bible or jesus, etc. I was raised in a religious school through high school, and for some college, and have studied religion for many decades out of fascination with it as a force in history.

I am usually apalled at how little most "christians" know about their own religion and how angry they get when yu explain the reality of it to them.

mark

[Nihil]

76. True enough ...

> I get offended when "religious" people think I am an agnostic because
> I don't know about the bible or jesus, etc. I was raised in a religious
> school through high school, and for some college, and have studied religion
> for many decades out of fascination with it as a force in history.

A lot of people define "religious" as "exactly the same as me" rather than
accepting that there are more variations in "religion" or "faith" than there
are in languages.

It can be frustrating and/or irritating when someone (especially a stranger)
dismisses your beliefs (or absence thereof) as "wrong" simply because they
do not agree with their own - even more so when they are ignorant of so much
of the history/dogma/tenets of their professed religion.

> I just recall that 100 is the average IQ, and many people are below that number.

... and some of them regularly post new threads to DU ...
:hide:

[condoleeza]

33. More like pathetic

[OffWithTheirHeads]

34. As a practicing Atheist, it doesn't bother me at all.

Most of these folks mean well and I can understand how many of them can find the vastness of the universe and their relative insignificance overwhelming. If it helps them get through the day to have an imaginary friend in the sky, so be it. Now, when they start acting like the Pharisees and start pounding on their chests and proclaiming their faith and start telling me that if I don't believe in their interpretation of their imaginary friend I will be damned for eternity, well, then I let them have it with both barrels.

Sadly, I, as an Atheist know more about the formation of Christianity than probably 80% of the folks who profess to be Christians. I find the study of the development of their religion fascinating. Unfortunately, many of them think of the Bible as the unadulterated word of their God and have never heard of the council of Nicea, the council of Trent, the Gospel of Thomas and on and on and it serves the churches well to keep them ignorant of such information. Panacea of the masses and all that. Oh well.

[DIKB]

45. I loled when I read

"practicing Atheist"

Having not rights or rituals to practice I can't help but wonder if others possess some.

Although I had heard of de-baptisms with blow-dryers I know of no follow up. A daily wipe-down with a shammy-cloth?

[ElboRuum]

35. Well...

Not so much "God help you"... since this is often used as a more polite way to say "you're fucked".

"I will pray for you", however, does not have this quality of serving as a common phrase for something decidedly secular, and as such is often used as a marker for religious belief. Whenever anyone says it to me I say, "Don't bother, it won't help."

[JerseygirlCT]

37. Well, saying that they'll

pray for you doesn't actually assume anything about you, other than they feel that their prayers will help you. It's about what they believe, not what you do...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

48. Right, it's not about YOU

When my grandfather died, some Catholic friends of the family had a Mass said for him.

Now this was not in accordance with our belief system, but it was the Catholic friends' idea of a nice gesture, so we just left it at that.

[madrchsod]

39. nope....life is to short to worry about such minor things

[SidDithers]

50. I usually politely say "No thank you"...

I don't feel the need to give credence to their beliefs, but I try not to be rude about it (in real life).

Sid

[BR_Parkway]

52. It really depends - if they need to pray for me to 'fix' me or save my soul

yeah, that's pretty fucking offensive to me.

If I were sick or injured and they said it I'd probably take it in the spirit of them offering what they saw as something helpful - there'd be no need for me to point out that I thought it was a waste of time.

Like most things in life - it boils down to you, them, the context and what's been said before

[Jim__]

53. Are you offended when someone says "Goodbye"?

My understanding is that's a contraction for "God be with ye". I'm not sure if that's actually correct, but should I worry about it? Life's too short.

[Meshuga]

59. I would feel good if someone wishes me well enough to take the time to pray for me

I mean, even when to me prayer has no supernatural consequences whatsoever.

It is a different situation if the person is trying to feel superior (as a consequence of belief) and gives me the arrogant "I will pray for your soul". Otherwise, I have no reason to get worked up about someone else's belief that he/she is helping me somehow. Actually, the good intentions are appreciated. I find the assumption ignorant but I would not lose any sleep over it.

[rd_kent]

60. ***FOLLOW UP POST**** So, is it okay, if I just want to be gracious and cordial

and really want to be nice, but instead of "have a blessed day" or "may god bless you", I can say " Have a great reality based day" or "may reality enlighten you"?

My point is, if it is ok for religious folks to use their beliefs as a way of being cordial, it is okay for atheists/agnostics to do it as well.

[DeSwiss]

62. “Yeah, and while you've got him on the prayer line.....

...ask him why he let this shit happen to me in first place."

[Odin2005]

71. Not offended, I just think it's ridiculous.

But it's funny, I often say "God help you/us/him/her/etc." as in "god help that dumbass come to his senses" out of habit even though I'm an Atheist.

[darkstar3]

72. You just gotta let some s*** slide...

As an atheist, I have a whole bunch of opportunities to be upset by the English language:

Bless you!
Merry Christmas
Happy Easter
Oh my God!
Heaven/God forbid
Heaven/God help us

The list goes on and on...

The whole problem here is that Christianity is not only a religion, it's a cultural thing, and it has wrapped itself around and intertwined with the English language. There's nothing I can do about it, and trying to fight the day to day colloquialisms that sometimes work their way into even my speech patterns (Good God!) is fruitless.

You have to pick your battles.

I will say, though, that I find "Have a blessed day" annoying as fuck. There are plenty of words that can fill the blank in "Have a _______ day":

nice
good
great
wonderful
sunny
happy
scrumdidilyumptious

OK, so I went a little overboard, but the point is that injecting your religious beliefs into a phrase that has until now been completely benign is nothing more or less than a form of proselytizing, and a distasteful drive-by form at that.

[cynatnite]

73. I get offended when someone tells me bless you after I have sneezed. n/t

[saltpoint]

74. It's something like being in a diner along the highway and the waitress

calls you "honey" when you order.

It's reflexive for her to call customers "honey," and seems like part of the moment and the landscape, and not her attempt to get us all into bed just for ordering two scrambled eggs, biscuits and gravy, and a cup of coffee.