My mom and I argued again about God.

[Dangerman]

Just right now, when my mom ask me do I believed in God, I can't answer, then she went nuts saying "If you lose your faith in God, you lose faith in me." Then she got angry and pissed on me. And it's a one-sided argument.

I longer longer when the bible because of 9/11 and the Iraq War and the Christian bullshit about George W. Bush saying "God told me to invade Iraq", not to mention our troops using the Muslim Koran as toilet paper in Iraq, that's when I quit reading the bible, not going to church anymore and became a semi-atheist. And I thought to myself "why is God is on the side of Bush and his cronies?"

My mom is a deeply religious person and this hurts her deeply. She also believes that Muslims are hate-filled fanatics. If I tell her the truth, we're gonna start another argument.

I don't believe in God anymore because if he does exist, he respects all good religions including Muslim.

She believes that God provided the family with food and housing and she wants me to pray to him everyday. She also thinks I "worship" the computer and TV these days. This is a little confusing.

I have no one to talk to, not even my family who will give me the same answer as my mom.

[ret5hd]

1. I looked at your profile and did not see how old you are, but assuming you are over 25 or so...

and not living at home, just blow it off.

"yeah, back at ya, mom." Peck on cheek. "see you tomorrow."

[Dangerman]

2. I'm 36...

But I live in my parents' home.

[jgraz]

69. I think I see your problem...

I'm guessing you have some pretty strong reasons to be living with your folks, but this stuff isn't going to get fixed as long as you're both under the same roof. Get your own place and you'll have a bit more power in your interactions with your mother.

I had to move back home @ 19 after breaking my back. I made it about 6 months before I decided that the extra pain required to do everything myself was totally worth it.

[shraby]

3. This makes no sense..

"If you lose your faith in God, you lose faith in me"
Is she equating herself with God?
Point out to her Muslims who are upstanding members of our country..Muhammed Ali (Casius Clay), Abdul Jabar to name a couple. If you google I'm sure you can find more.
Also religion should be a personal thing, not something you wear on your sleeves for all to see.
Maybe Bush and cronies don't have God on their side..could be another entity???

[Deep13]

9. Plus the fact that if she had been born in Iran...

...she would be just as convinced that Islam was right and Christianity wrong.

[Schema Thing]

4. I went from fundamentalist to non-believer

You sound angry at God frankly, which I can understand.

The nice thing about actual atheism is that, if that is where your intellect (not your emotions) leads you, then you won't find yourself angry at god or gods ever again, because you simply won't believe that they exist.

[Deep13]

11. I think she sounds exasperated with her relatives. nt

[Schema Thing]

15. I don't believe her relatives exist either ;)

[Obamanaut]

5. If a god really existed, and I don't believe there is one supreme being,

I'm sure with all that power he or she could survive an argument between you and your mom.

[Warpy]

6. It's not you, it's them

and you're going to have to figure out a way to avoid the subject completely if you want to keep your family.

Most of us hide out in that "I'm just not religious" self imposed ghetto when dealing with hyper religious family members. It offers them just enough doubt that you're really a closet believer who just had a fight with a preacher or something and learned to dislike going to church to be able to cope with you on other subjects.

All of us are flawed creatures and all of us have some pretty major flaws. You've just discovered your mother's major flaw: intolerance. If you look at the whole person, you might find she is much more than just that flaw and decide to keep her.

You're never going to be able to come out of that "not religious" closet to her, though.

Good luck.

[LARED]

7. Are you sure the second to last sentence

in your first paragraph is correct?

[FiveGoodMen]

25. They're just a very emotionally demonstrative family.

[Deep13]

8. "If you lose your faith in God, you lose faith in me."

That's a strange thing to say. There's no doubt that your mother exists. Any reason to have faith in god has been a long time coming. It is completely irrational to be offended because you have a different opinion about god than she does, but that is the nature of religious thinking.

[1awake]

16. Maybe she meant

Since she believes in God, his "non-belief" is the same thing as saying she's wrong or a fool for having faith in a God, and since he's her son, his non-belief would be a strike against her as in a failure on her part. Just guessing..

[Laura902]

10. Aw I'm sorry...

...........there isn't a god and the universe was not designed, after losing faith i find doing more pro-active things like starting fundraisers for non-profits i believe in and making the world a better place to be more fulfilling- not doing it for the imaginary man in the sky but for others-that's just me though. If i was you i would read lots of scientific literature that lay-people can understand (if you are not in that field, i wouldn't know)and just be able to form a better non-delusional argument-but once again that is just me. Life is better away from the restraint of religion and the close-mindedness it causes. Live to the fullest and don't let anyone get in the way of that!

[Cleita]

12. Error of logic in your mom's reasoning. Your faith in her has nothing

to do with your faith in God. You can't argue with someone who comes from an irrational position. I would just tell her that you love her and there is no reason to continue this discussion. I don't know her temperament, but when my mother and I disagreed and I refused to argue with her, she threw a temper tantrum, which I also ignored and that ended that. You need to make some friends that you can talk to even a teacher you can trust.

[Fumesucker]

13. A Biblical, omnipotent, omniscient god precludes the existence of free will, IMO..

It's like an utterly perfect billiards player, they will run the table every time. The same thing with a perfect god, everything is *exactly* as they meant it to be. Omniscience means that everything you or anyone else will ever do is already known, how can there be free will in such a situation?

As an atheist I'm really surprised at how often religious people conclude that I'm very "spiritual", I guess it's because I'm interested in the answers to the "big questions"..

[Cleita]

20. If you are asking big questions and looking for answers then you

are not an atheist, just someone who doesn't believe in the god of Abraham. There's a whole world of spiritual beliefs out there for you to explore and you should question everything even science.

[Fumesucker]

27. Science always questions itself..

That is what the scientific method is all about, asking questions and looking for answers in a rational manner.

And I'm indeed an atheist in that I lack a belief in a supernatural deity, one does not have to believe in a deity in order to wonder from whence our universe came and to where it might be going.

I suggest "Quantum Enigma: Physics encounters consciousness" by Bruce Rosenblum and Fred Kuttner if you would like to have a look at where modern science might be headed in terms of spirituality.

http://quantumenigma.com/

[Cleita]

28. Not always. There are those who think science is so written in stone

that it shouldn't be questioned at all. I'm familiar with quantum theory and there is a lot to question there as well. I read a lot of scientific articles written for popular consumption of course as I don't really have the educational background to really delve into it.

[ret5hd]

32. I don't think you understand science at all.

The entire foundation of science is questions.

[Cleita]

33. You don't understand what I'm saying and maybe I'm not

explaining it that well, so I will just leave it at that. Have a nice New Years.

[rd_kent]

74. No, you are not explaining it well and we will not leave it at that. Science DOES question itself.

Lets leave it at THAT.

[GoneOffShore]

48. You've hit the nail there.

Of course, as soon as the word "quantum" appears be sure that that will be followed with a large helping of Choprawoo. Delicious, but only with a side of frites and mayonnaise.

[trotsky]

70. "Choprawoo"!

LOL

[Fumesucker]

34. Ignorant individuals may think that but that is not how science works..

Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the history of science knows that what is supposedly written in stone in one era is often changed or even completely overturned in the next.

The Ptolemaic worldview was overturned by the Copernican one, Einstein superseded Newton and so on..

I always enjoyed James Burke's "Connections" series, it really showed the vigor of scientific inquiry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connections_%28TV_series%29

[Cleita]

37. That's my point.

Science is not written in stone, and should be questioned even by those who think they have the absolute answer. My earliest science text books hadn't discovered the Piltdown man hoax yet and it was presented as scientific evidence of evolution. :rofl: Many things I was taught in science classes turned out to be wrong back then. It doesn't really matter. We both are agreeing at some level.

[pokerfan]

68. The Relativity of Wrong

An essay by Isaac Asimov published some twenty years ago that explains what I think you're trying to say.

http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm

[GoneOffShore]

38. +1

And if someone tells me to keep an "open Mind" I tend to point them here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI

And here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBUc_kATGgg

[Fumesucker]

44. LOL.. being open minded is not the same thing as empty headed..

I liked the videos..

[Lost-in-FL]

54. Great videos, thanks. nt

[liberal_at_heart]

36. I know. Anytime I mention that scientific theories change over the course of history

I get verbally attacked.

[Zoeisright]

41. Wrong. Science changes according to new knowledge.

Those who think the Bible is accurate are the ones set in stone. They'll do, think, or say anything to twist evidence into fitting the Bible's narrow parameters.

[rd_kent]

73. Your comment is contradictory. Who are "those" that think science should not be questioned?

Science in not written in stone, but the scientific method is.....

[iris27]

65. Uh, no. That's what science is all about, looking for the REAL answers to the big questions,

not just accepted whatever nonsense someone wrote in a holy book just because it might make me feel better to think I'll be able to spend eternity with my loved ones.

It's about accepting the discomfort of not having an answer yet, but finding joy in the search.

[rd_kent]

72. Science questions itself...its called the scientific method.

The main purpose of the scientific method is to try and disprove itself. Science is based on facts. Religion and "spirituality" are all based on beliefs and are not compatible.

[maglatinavi]

31. Religion

vs. spirituality. Unfortunately, religion has been confused with denominations and their teachings. Religion is actually a term to describe the return of the "spirit" to God, or the First Cause ... there is no effect without a cause... so there has to be a first cause... all peoples from times eternal have believed that there is a first cause, a mover of movers ... and instinctively realize that there are high purposes in life... One of the easiest ways to comform with those principles is to see the Divine from which everything pours out, including our spirits. The world is a school for the spirits to refine themselves and transmigrate from life to life in its journey from and back to the Source... thus the mechanics of reencarnation... having said that, don't argue with your mom... don't try to make her understand you belief or non belief system...
:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[Fumesucker]

40. Cause and effect are funny things..

There is some evidence that our perception of time only flowing in one direction is just that, a mere perception. If time is indeed bidirectional or even more fluid than that then cause and effect might just be in our extremely limited perception.

http://quantumenigma.com/

[GoneOffShore]

42. Uh, yeah, whatever.

apart from "don't try to make her understand you belief or non belief system.."

[yellowwood]

14. State Your Case

Don't argue about it. Just state your case and stick to it. Be kind about it.
She obviously is not going to change her mind or accept your arguments.
If you pretend to believe in something that you don't believe in, you would be lying. She would not approve of that, either.
Stay true to yourself.

[jwirr]

17. I often wonder why the Bible is blamed when it is people who use

it incorrectly that are at fault. When boosh & co use the constitution wrongly do we blame the constitution?

What I really came on this post was to ask how old you are? Your mother needed the comfort that you were still the son she had raised. Don't disappoint her. Just nod and go your own way. She needs this more than you do.

[liberal_at_heart]

29. I agree that getting into arguments only adds to the problem

I'm sure that realizing that the child you raised has become a different person as an adult can be painful, but agreeing just so the mom can go on believing a lie isn't the way to go either. Alot of homosexual people have this problem when they come out to their parents. I think that being sensitive to the difficulty the parent is going through is more productive than arguing about it, but I don't think anyone should have to live a lie just to please their parents. The parent needs to realize that an adult person grows all throughout their lifetime and thinking of the child as the baby they raised is not going to help the relationship.

[madrchsod]

18. i remember our long lost mo-paul had the same problem

his mother was a fanatical christian that could`t understand nor respect that their loved ones or others did`t believe the way they did. "..canniable christians they suffer so.."

[cornermouse]

19. Consider trying to find a job and an apartment at least two hours away from home.

as soon as you can. On the other side of the state would be even better. This is not a fight you're ever going to win.

[Tikki]

22. You will not win this argument....

To thine own self be true and do onto others as...That is the way you are..
This is who you are...:)

...Your mother comes with all kinds of strings attached...too bad...
but that's the kind of mother you have....:(


Tikki

[CJCRANE]

21. There are plenty of forums here on DU

where you can explore these issues.

While you're under your parents' roof and your opinions upset them it's probably best just to go along with them and change the subject as quickly as you can.

I've had a similar issue with my Dad and decided it isn't worth trying to knock down his belief system, it's a part of him that he'll never give up, so I just keep quiet when he starts lecturing me on intelligent design/creationism, and wait for the moment to pass.

[liberal_at_heart]

23. my dad and I went through the same thing when I switched from Christianity to Buddhism

It hurt him so he lashed out at me and that hurt me so I lashed out at him. He also tried to convert me, my husband, and my children. There was alot of tension in the house(he lives with me). I think we both got tired of the tension and the arguing. We have both backed off a bit. He still believes what he believes and I still believe what I believe and we still get in occasional discussions about our differences but we are learning to move past it. I want to have a relationship with my father. I don't want to push him away because we have different religions.

[keep_it_real]

24. Perhaps there is no God of Justice however:

In Signature in the Cell, Dr. Stephen Meyer shows that the digital code embedded in DNA points powerfully to a designing intelligence and helps unravel a mystery that Darwin did not address: how did the very first life begin? Follow Dr. Meyer as he investigates how new scientific discoveries are pointing to intelligent design as the best explanation for the complexity of life and the universe.

http://www.stephencmeyer.org/news/archives.html

[Fumesucker]

56. I don't believe in intelligent design but you might enjoy this book..

http://www.amazon.com/Calculating-God-Robert-J-Sawyer/dp/0812580354

[rd_kent]

75. puh-lease. What a load of crap.

[pipi_k]

26. Why keep arguing about this?

If it's an ongoing thing and you know her position and she knows yours, then what's the point of arguing?

As an adult, you're perfectly capable of just ignoring the whole question when it gets asked. You know? Changing the subject each and every time the question gets asked. Like it was never asked in the first place. If she persists, keep changing the subject. If she wants to start an argument, do not respond. Go to your room or leave the house.

If you don't respond, then she'll eventually get tired of discussing it.


She WANTS to argue with you. By responding to the same old questions time after time, you make yourself part of the problem. Take yourself out of the equation entirely.

:)

[get the red out]

30. She chooses to be hurt by loss of control of your mind

No matter what one believes, it should not be so important to control another person's mind. That is not unconditional love.

[seeinfweggos]

53. yeah, but that's the breaks when you live with your parents even (ney especially) at the ops age

and please don't take that as a knock on the op. economics dictate a lot of things for us unfortunately, especially these days. but if the average person at age 50 moved in with the average parents of 70+ the parents would be trying to tell the 50-year old how to run her life.

i had to move back in with my folks at 27 and stay for over a year. my parents are the coolest, most progressive people on the planet. but good gawd they'd drive me nuts if i had to live with them. when my partner and i go to visit them on holidays all she sees are the open minded liberals and not the pull me to the side in the kitchen and go on and on about career choices or car note choices etc.

to quote a line from breakfast club "everybody's home life sucks or else we'd live with our parents forever."

[GoneOffShore]

35. God - not a being - a job description. Not being snarky here.

I told my mother that I didn't believe in "God" when I was 6, when I was 13, when I was 21 and multiple times after that until she died. Each time was moderately traumatic for her but she eventually got the idea.

My lack of belief stemmed from a serious skeptical streak that showed at an early age. And note that I say skeptical not cynical. It was an honest intellectual question for me from an early age that was never answered satisfactorily by anyone who I approached.

Good luck with this, but you may just have to cut yourself loose from her - as painful as that is. When people are religiously infected sometimes there is no cure.

Again, no snark is meant and I wish you good luck.

[liberal_at_heart]

43. My daughter is the same way

She began questioning God at around the age of 5. She is 15 now and is an atheist. Sometimes if the people are open to civil conversation you can have some pretty good discussion. We have a very diverse household. I am Buddhist, my husband is agnostic, my daughter is atheist, my father who lives with us is evengelical Christian. My mother in law is pagan and she may be coming to live with us soon too. The one thing we demand in our household is respect. It is okay to disagree and have different beliefs but if you live in this house you have to be respectful of other's beliefs.

[GoneOffShore]

49. You must have some interesting dinner table discussions.

[liberal_at_heart]

50. Yes we do have interesting discussions

My husband loves learning about people and what motivates them to believe what they believe so he loves to have those kinds of discussions. We have a Mormon neighbor and he and my husband get in some pretty lengthy discussions. They disagree but have very civil, educational, and interesting discussions.

[Laura902]

39. I recommend for people on the fence

like you, Richard Dawkins "The Blind Watchmaker" but if you do end up wanting religion to be a part of your life i hope you find a more open-minded faith
Best of luck
:D

[malaise]

45. You're not an atheist Dangerman

An atheist doesn't become fed up of religion. An atheist simply doesn't believe in any god or gods. You're struggling with the behavior of so called Christians and it has shaken your faith. You also accept that there are many religions and the Fundie madness has 'got' to you.

You're not going to change your mother at her age, and at your age she can't make you pray to anyone or anything. I was lucky - my mom accepted my atheism; she didn't like it but she accepted it and I accepted her with her deep belief. The truth is that it doesn't matter what others believe since you have to live your life. Resolve your own philosophy - find peace within you and remember that the best maxim in life is do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I rarely discuss religion with people. They know it's like water on a duck's back. They can believe what they want as long as they don't attempt to preach to me.

[Dappleganger]

46. Take religion off the conversation table.

Whatever happened to "please pass the rolls?"

[Fleshdancer]

47. well that's a very emotionally manipulative thing for her to say

Does she always try to win an argument by making things so personal? My MIL does this too whenever she starts to lose an argument with my husband and it pisses me off every time. I find the only thing to do is to cut her off, call her on the manipulation, and then tell her the conversation is now over because feelings are getting hurt for absolutely NO reason.

[debbierlus]

51. This is about her lack of faith not yours. Let her own it.

A person strong in faith, principle, knowledge, or whatever it may be, they do not need the solace of another's reassurance.

She has constructed her belief in God around her own ego. And, your lack of belief is a threat to her view of herself and the world.

Each person's spiritual journey is their own. It is for no one to judge. No one to impose upon. Religion and spiritually are very different things. It sounds as if your mother knows little of the latter.

[AngryAmish]

52. 1. Humor your mother. One day she will be gone and you will miss her.

Talk about other, happier things. You will realize that arguing was a waste of time.

2. Realize that when arguing religion, politics, etc that someone else has set ideas you cannot change their minds. Is it because the other person is stupid and/or evil? No. Humans' brains do not allow them to easily change their minds about big (or even little)ideas and beliefs. This is not my belief. This is reasonably well settled science.

In sum, realize that you can't change her mind or her yours. Then forget about it. If she brings it up then let it slide, change the subject etc. You will both be happier.

[dhpgetsit]

55. I can honestly say I believe in God, because

I believe the God of Christianity was created by Man in His image. He is very real because this myth has had such a profound effect on our culture.

I am more agnostic about the Creator. I tend to think of the Creator as a Godess who has no interest at all in the human race.

[BurtWorm]

57. I wonder if she believes that the more secure a family is the more God cares for them.

And the less secure they are, the less God cares for them. What percentage of a family's security does she think is God's responsibility and what percentage is a family's (or individual's)? Does she think God is so petty that he needs you to pray to him to maintain your prosperity? Or, more to the point, to maintain HER prosperity?

[etherealtruth]

58. I know you are looking for commiseration ... and you've gotten that

(I am not implying commiseration is a bad thing, it's not) ... but, it seems that being right is not as important to you as is your relationship with your mom (a good thing, as well).

I hold vastly different views on religion and spirituality than does my devout Catholic mother ... I avoid the subject of religion ... and even tell "little white lies" to avoid upsetting my mom (mercifully she is not religiously insane or bigoted :)

[Berry Cool]

59. Your mom literally pissed on you? I hope not.

But seriously, you don't believe the Bible because of what Bush said about Iraq and 9/11? How silly. I mean, whether or not you're going to believe in God is a matter of personal choice, but that's a really dumb thing to base it on. Just because Bush said God told him to do something doesn't make it so!

As for our troops using the Koran as toilet paper, where did you read that nonsense?

Obviously, if you want to be a nonbeliever (for sounder reasons than these) and your mother wants you to believe, you're going to be at loggerheads regularly. But you still have a right to believe in God or not. Thing is, if I were you, I'd want to base my lack of belief on something a lot more substantial than stuff like you cite.

[Speck Tater]

60. Whatever she says to you, simply respond with love.

Don't "react" to provocation, just repeat that you love her and care about her. Or you might mention that your beliefs are a private matter, between yourself and God, and let it go at that.

[jtuck004]

61. You are not the only one that has had this argument with family.

But this is an important and deeply held belief of your mother's. She is wrong to try and use it to control you, but pointing this out to her is likely to just set her off, since reason doesn't seem to a hallmark of this discussion. Understand she most likely thinks it just comes from wanting the best for you, and she can't see it any other way. You probably won't win, but perhaps there are things you can do.

You can't ignore it, especially if she wants you to pray at every meal. You could try something like "Dear God, I am glad your will is being done" and let it go at that, but faking it might make you feel worse, and begin to disrespect your mother. And you obviously care about her. One person suggested moving away, and while that might be necessary, she will get older and need you closer one day, and nothing will have changed, so maybe now is the time to figure it out. But put enough away so you can move if you need to, cause this is a potentially explosive issue.

Your analysis that any decent God would respect all religions is quite insightful. Hang on to that - just because your mother doesn't think so doesn't mean that the God "you" believe in doesn't exist. I say that because I read an opening in your text as to the possibility that there might be a God if he was more reasonable. Nothing wrong with dismissing the existence of a God out of hand, but rejecting the possibility just because your mom is presenting an ugly case may not be what you want.

If you really want someone to talk to about this, check out the local Unitarian church, a local Jewish rabbi, and an Imam at a mosque. They might help you answer your questions, and most of them really like such conversations.

Another thought - the local mosque had a public program the other day to open themselves up to the community. Invite her to go with you to something like that. Nice people, though there were a few old white women there who insisted on arguing that they were all bad people because they didn't do things in the American\Christian\Democratic way - sigh... But maybe taking your mom to one of those would be a good way to open up her world (wear socks, you have to take off your shoes to go into the mosque, and it would be respectful to wear scarves over your head).

I am not saying you should or should not believe in a God (I do pretty well without one) but there are ways to handle these things without the hurt feelings and anger that seems to be the product of what is happening now...

good luck

[kdmorris]

62. I feel your pain

I come from a family that is Southern Baptist (I'm an atheist). At some point, we all had to come to an agreement:

Either we never speak again or we learn to not talk about this subject. My older sister was very much like your mother and it hurt a lot when she would make me feel bad about not believing. I eventually had to tell her that we need to stick to subjects of our children, our families and completely avoid the subject of politics and religion.

I love my sister and she apparently loves me, as well, because this works for us and we are in the process of rebuilding the relationship that got severed when she kept harping on it. Basically, it came down to a choice for her: Never talk to me again or love me enough to not talk about that.

I'm still sorry you are going through this. It's just never easy and it's so painful when you have a religious relative that cannot seem to give it up.

[nenagh]

63. Trying to grow into your own person with a difficult Mother is not easy..

Because what she is asking you to do is to believe in God in the very same way that she does..

Or maybe she is determined not to let go of her child's mind..

You need to find statements that you are comfortable saying to her, that still square with your beliefs..

and maybe that involves a little manipulation of thought on your part..

So when you are brushing your teeth in the morning, maybe consider or think, I hope there is a force in this universe that could help Mother be a happier person.. :)

Then if she insists on asking if you pray daily.. you could say..why yes.. I do :)

Re whether you believe in God.. Well, that is a pretty invasive question..

I'll have to think about that!! :)

[Kaleva]

64. "Then she got angry and pissed on me."

[iris27]

66. I feel your pain...your mom sounds very much like my mom did when I first

told my family I was no longer Christian. Let me save you years of head-butting and grief...learn to make heavy use of this phrase..."I love you, but I will no longer discuss this topic with you." Use it any time she starts up about anything remotely religious.

I have to have a very strict no-religion-no-politics discussion rule with my family in order for us to be in the same room without it devolving into angry shouting. I have my siblings and their spouses blocked on Facebook because they can't refrain from posting freeperish nonsense, but in person we are mostly able to stay away from those topics.

[clear eye]

67. The disagreements about religion sound like only a small part of the problems b/t you & your mom.

It seems like she undermines your self-confidence about living your own life and having your own thoughts in general. You have not felt confident enough to seek out what you want in a career or strike out on your own even if its only a rented room w/ a hotplate & microwave. Perhaps your continued arguments on this touchy subject are your way of trying to tell her to let you be yourself. It would work better if you just showed her you could stand on your own two feet, and didn't need to argue w/ her to prove you are your own person.

If you are elegible for any kind of free counseling in your community, I advise you to take advantage of it. You need to hear that not everyone in authority thinks you deserve to be put down.

The arguments will stop when you really accept that she has a right to her beliefs and you have a right to yours, and they don't have to be the same. Then you will learn to just change the subject when she insists on talking about things you know will inevitably cause hard feelings. And you won't try to convince her that your way of thinking is right. It would certainly be easier if you lived somewhere else. Firstly, it would avoid questions every Sunday morning. Secondly, she might even begin to see you as a grown-up. But even if she didn't, you would begin to see yourself that way.

Here is a link to Seattle's Baha'is. http://seattlebahais.org/ "Bahá'ís view the world's major religions as a part of a single, progressive process through which God reveals His will to humanity. The Bahá’í teachings emphasize that all of us, as creations of one God, are part of one human family." (There is a lot more about them on the website.) To talk to a Baha'i about what they believe, call 1-800-228-6483. The Ethical Culture Society has a chapter in Seattle that can be reached by calling 206.323.9859. They are a group that believes in living a moral life not based on belief in God. Another group are the Humanists. Their Seattle number is [phone]. Both these groups hold occasional meetings and other events. These are people you can talk to who share your beliefs.

Best of luck to you in your voyage of self-realization.

[caitxrawks]

71. don't worry, you're not alone.

My best friend deleted me from her FB yesterday because I came out as an atheist. She told me she was disappointed in me and that I should've come to her first before making this "drastic" decision.

WTFEVERRRRR.
Guh. I'm still seething over it. She and I have been best friends for 12 years, and she just drops me like a hot pan. Makes me feel like crap.

My mom argues with me over religion all the time too. Nobody in my family is even agnostic, they're ALL Christian. Every single last one. My husband is an agnostic atheist too, he's my only support in my offline life. It sucks so frickin bad to be this alone in the Bible Belt.

[golddigger]

76. In the beginning...

the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a very bad move.