Buddhism offers compassion ....

[residentfan]

... which is something that was not offered by the gentleman from Fox news. You cannot say "only MY religion offers forgiveness" and then turn around and say "and only in MY religion will you be a good example." There are many good examples of human beings in Buddhism, as there are in Christianity. We're being offered here a Euro centric view that offers nothing to Woods except conforming to a Christian religion. That will not fly in Wood's face, I'm certain. As a Buddhist, I am certain that Woods was aware of the dangers of sexual misadventure, so he will have to work to resolve walking down the wrong path, if he wishes to do so. And I hope he does, and I hope he will become an example to everyone of how Buddhism can work to help a person improve their moral relationship with the world.

[JDPriestly]

1. And I have been wondering whether Ensign and Sanford, the two

known born-again adulterers have to be re-saved in order to be forgiven. How does that work?

[tulsakatz]

2. as I understand it........

...you only have to be saved once.

The idea is that Jesus died for our sins so if you accept Jesus once, it's enough to last the rest of your life. So even if you sin again, which many people do, if you believe in Jesus.....he has already paid for your sins.

I'm not a christian now but I grew up in a baptist church.....anyway, that's the way it was explained to me.

[PaddyBlueEyes]

4. exactly right tulsa

nt.

[tulsakatz]

6. well, I haven't been a baptist for a number of years....

...but I live in the bible belt so there are many, many christians around. Still, I try to stay as far away from christianity as I can get.

[barbtries]

10. a lifelong friend

has been a member of a christian cult (ICC) for must be close to 20 years now. she's been taught that her salvation is always at risk unless she evangelizes, prays constantly, confesses her sins, and pays her 10%. in her cult it seems that only the leaders can award forgiveness. gawd? the bible? faith? all just tools used to control the members, like my friend. i deplore her so-called "church."

[Nihil]

61. Sad ...

> she's been taught that her salvation is always at risk unless she
> evangelizes, prays constantly, confesses her sins, and pays her 10%.

And I bet I can guess which of the four "reasons" the cult treats
the most seriously ...

[PaddyBlueEyes]

3. the sad part is most right wing christians dont ever quote the man

himself. Take homosexuality for example....Jesus never mentions it, but he does mention poverty about 9 billion times...yet it seems they forget that part.

[tulsakatz]

9. speaking of poverty.......

I was talking to a right winger one time via email....actually, arguing is the more appropriate word. Anyway, she brought up the taxes issue. And I mentioned to her that many republicans always talk about their religion and how Jesus said that people should help those less fortunate than themselves.

Then she got mad because I brought up religion and said the taxes issue is about keeping more of the money you make.....she never did discuss religion in that context. So the logical assumption from that was, apparently it's ok to help those less fortunate so long as it doesn't cost you any money!!

Yeah, I know they're not logical but that's the message I got from that argument.

[Captain Hilts]

5. I've never seen Woods claiming to be a Buddhist. His mother seems to have been hugely

over-shadowed in his life by his ambitious father.

[FreeState]

7. Hes publicly commented on being a Buddhist many times...

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/03/27/tiger-woods-talks-about-buddhism-and-being-a-dad/

[Captain Hilts]

8. I've missed that. Thanks for the link. nt

[humblebum]

11. It seems to be the general consensus here on DU that

religions, particularly Abrahamic religions, are the source of most of the world's problems - wars, racial strife, poverty, etc.. But, I contend that it is the nature of humanity - extremism, fanaticism, greed etc, that is the source of all or most of the world problems and these things are certainly not confined to religious societies. It is estimated that 130 million have died under atheism and atheist dictators in the 20th century, a large portion of them for their religious views. That number is greater than all deaths from religious wars combined. Therefore, I must conclude that human fanaticism and extremism are to blame, and those who think a world devoid of religion would be any better are sadly mistaken. Any religion can be found to have elements of extremist behavior in its history, but it is under the visage of state atheism that, by far, the most have perished. Is atheism the cause? No. But, extremist and fanatical atheists committed to eliminating religion or any other competing philosophies are to blame.

[Shanti Mama]

12. Thanks. Interesting.

[rd_kent]

13. Why do you insist on that same line of reasoning? Those people were NOT killed in the name

of atheism. Peddle that shit somewhere else. Since you have been on here, you have asserted this claim several times in other threads, and your hypothesis has been shot down over and over.

You can try, just as you did before, to twist the facts to fit you neat little argument, but it won't change reality. State atheism, ha! what a joke. You were shown piles of evidence that all of the people you listed were NOT atheists, especially Hitler, and did NOT kill people in the NAME of atheism.

Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.

Stop trying to rewrite history.

[humblebum]

14. rd, the facts justify my claims and I have given you many references.

Atheism is most definitely a principle when people organize in that name and around it for the purpose of instituting it as a policy. The League of Militant Atheists most certainly organized in the name of Atheism. And when Lenin ordered "the storming of the heavens", his stated intention was the establishment of state atheism - later called Scientific Atheism. Contemporary atheists of the times, such as Russell, lauded the establishment of the first atheist society.

PS. I will continue this line of reasoning as long as religion instead of fanaticism is being blamed for the world's problems. You obviously know very little about history or philosophy as they related to religion and atheism.

[rd_kent]

15. Here you go again.......

We have been through his before......

Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.

Communism was the ideology that drove them, not atheism. Organized religions were a threat to COMMUNISM.

But whatever. You can try to twist it as much as you want, I'm not doing this with you again. I juts wanted it in record in this thread that your assertions are wrong.

C-ya.

[humblebum]

16. I can prove my assertions, you cannot. nt

[rd_kent]

20. You havent proved anything.

You proved that during the communist revoulution, there were some groups that had "atheists" in the name, but the communist movement is an ideology all its own. Anti-religious, somewhat yes. But KILLED in the name if ATHEISM, hardly.

Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.

[humblebum]

17. rd, the indisputable fact remains that those engaged in the deaths

of 100+ million in the 20th century, in Russia, China, South Asia, Eastern Europe, etc. by public execution, in gulags, and forced starvation were atheists. Not religious. Therefore, atheists are every bit as capable of being extremists as are religious people.

[rd_kent]

21. No one said that an atheist isnt capable of horrendous acts.

But no one was killed in the NAME of atheism. All of those movements had their own ideologies.


Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.

[humblebum]

25. Your statement does not jive with history.

[PassingFair]

65. Yes it does!

And it JIBES, too!

[rd_kent]

29. Yes, it does.

Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.

[humblebum]

18. rd, i just noticed that you claimed that I said Hitler was an atheist, but

I never said that. What he was is open to debate. He was a RC by birth, but he executed or imprisoned many of the clergy who challenged he policies and planted his own people in the churches. He was also an enthusiastic student of Nietzsche's works. And he was proud of his German his history and often related back to the days of the 1st Reich, when the germanic emperor was the protector and co-leader of the Church.

[rd_kent]

22. Puh-lease. We already showed you mountains of evidence that Hitler coopted christianity

Even photographic evidence, where crosses were turned into swastikas, clergy participating in state events, giving the heil hitler salaute, etc.

Again....

Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.

[humblebum]

24. But you said that I claimed Hitler was an atheist and I never

said that, and I also never claimed that he did not coopt Christianity. As far as your definition of atheism, many have different opinions. But,that is of no concern to me.

[rd_kent]

28. There is only one definition of atheism: The lack of a belief in a god. Period.

Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.

[humblebum]

30. But if that tall person belongs to a group

called the 'League of Militant Tall Persons', publishes a newspaper called 'The Tall Person', and goes around persecuting short people, I think it safe to say that it is being done in the name of tall people because that is the name they use.

[rd_kent]

31. Why are you so obtuse?

Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.


COMMUNISM was the ideology, not atheism. Communism is a much broader idea. The fact that comminuism IS an ideology and atheism is not should be enough to dispel this misinterpretation you have.

[darkstar3]

32. Ah, but you are missing the key point:

It's a purposeful misinterpretation designed to paint atheism with the darkest of brushes and thereby bring it down into the pit with all the "other religions."

As Laconicsax once said, it's a simple ad hom tu quoque fallacy that far too many believers invest their time in.

Thank you for reminding why I have this clown on ignore.

[humblebum]

34. Historical fact is what it is. If it disturbs you then

that is too bad.

[rd_kent]

35. What disturbes me is your attempt to rewrite history.

Still not sure what you do not understand about the difference between communism and atheism. I will spell it our for you again...

Communism - an ideology and social/governmental structure.

Atheism - lack of a belief in a god.

See the difference?

Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.

[humblebum]

38. I am merely quoting history that has already been written, lived,

eyewitnessed, and filmed.

[rd_kent]

42. yes, in the name of COMMUNISM, not atheism.

Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.

[humblebum]

33. Don't tell me, tell them. they are the ones who

did their deeds in that name. You are rationalizing. I am merely pointing to historical fact.

[rd_kent]

36. Dude! It was done on the name of COMMUNISM, not atheism.

FFS, man, you are dense and intentionally trying to misconstrue the facts.

It was the COMMUNIST revolution! Not the atheists revolution.

Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.

[humblebum]

37. Uhm? That's why Lenin called for the establishment of state atheism

and why The League of Militant Atheists (not Communists) was established in all areas of Russia. These are facts written in stone.

[rd_kent]

41. True. However, all of THAT was done in the name of COMMUNISM.

also a fact written in stone.

Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.

[humblebum]

43. i hate to burst your bubble but atheist groups existed in Russia and in other places

long before Communism, and after communism. As far as not being "a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system" - other atheists would differ with you as well as myself. I have already shown that these things were done in a name other than communism. You are your own source of information.

[rd_kent]

44. SO what. Your original assertion was that 130 million people were killed in the name of atheism.

and thats not true.


Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.

[humblebum]

45. I never once said that, However, I did say that it was largely the

case. All who participated were atheists. Scientic Atheism and materialism were supporting principles of the communist party.

[rd_kent]

46. Bullshit. See post #11 for what you stated.

It is estimated that 130 million have died under atheism and atheist dictators in the 20th century

and you stated that those 130 million died in the name of atheism is SEVERAL other threads.


and you just admitted in this post what I have been saying... Scientic Atheism and materialism were supporting principles of the communist party. All those killed were killed in the name of communism, not atheism.

[darkstar3]

48. Take a count.

I'm pretty sure that half of his posts have been pushing this bullshit somewhere on the forum. I think it's all he came here to say. That's why he's on ignore now, 'cause just like whackamole, when he finally gives up here, he'll just start pushing the SOS in another, newer thread.

[humblebum]

49. One again you are claiming something that isn't so.

"It is estimated that 130 million have died under atheism and atheist dictators in the 20th century" That is a perfectly verifiable statement but where did I say that "those 130 million died in the name of atheism"? If your going to quote someone you ought to quote them accurately.

[rd_kent]

50. OMG, dude, you really are delusional. Your sophistry is tiring, I'm done with you.

This is all you are gonna get from me on the future...


Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.

[humblebum]

51. When you can no longer debate the issue, you always resort to

the ad homs. you and i both know that you are misquoting.

[rd_kent]

52. Heres another place you said it, hypocrite.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=230862&mesg_id=231152

[humblebum]

53. There you go again with the ad homs and still I never

said that all estimated 130 million were killed in the name of atheism.

[rd_kent]

54. Yeah, you did, explicitly. "It was most certainly done in the name of atheism"

Heres the link again, for your future reference...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=230862&mesg_id=231152

[Jim__]

19. I agree that humanity is a warlike species.

We are innately xenophobic and greedy. People need to recognize this in the era of nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons are a death threat hanging over humanity; and that fact has to be addressed.

[rd_kent]

23. Yes, and those that have a finger hovering over the button all have a religious belief

they feel makes them more righteous than the other.

[Jim__]

26. Really? Vladimir Putin? Dmitri Medvedev? Wen Jiabao? Kim Jong_Il- n/t

[moobu2]

27. Vladimir Putin and Dmitri Medvedev are Christians I believe.

[humblebum]

39. As a member of the KGB, Putin would have been required to

be a member of the Communist party, and to be a member of the party he was required to be an atheist. To hold any public office required being a communist, however citizens were not required to be communists but were required to accept state atheism.

[rd_kent]

47. Its well documented that he is a christian.

I'm done with you.


Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.

[humblebum]

55. You keep saying you are done, but you keep coming back.

What gives? And you keep telling me what atheism isn't.

[rd_kent]

56. Congrats, you are the the first on the ignore list.

[humblebum]

57. When ya can't debate 'em, ignore 'em. Have you ever tried

reading the history you say never happened?

[rd_kent]

58. What a great feature! You replied but I cannot see the BS you posted. I love it!

[humblebum]

59. Yep. Stay in your little dream world.

Now you can say "I'm done with you" again.

[rd_kent]

60. I should have used this a long time ago! Foolproof BS filter! Hahahaha!

[humblebum]

62. When one compares the chronological early history of organized atheism

in Russia with that of the atheist movement in the US and Europe today, the similarities are striking.

[kwassa]

63. You only blind yourself when you put someone on ignore.

Everyone else can clearly see when he destroys your arguments, as humblebum has. You couldn't see that before he put you on ignore, though, or simply wouldn't admit it.

Your "in the name of atheism" argument is a bullshit dodge, by the way. It doesn't mean for one second that atheism was not an essential element of the stated Communist belief system. Speaking of sophistry, your attempt at laying a newer, weak-atheist definition of atheism on an older historical strong-atheist meaning is dodging of the highest order. The Communists actively believed there were no god or gods, and persecuted those who believed otherwise.

Killing of religious persons by atheists for being religious doesn't have to be done "in the name of" atheism for those people to be dead. They are just as dead whether or not it was done in the name of atheism or the name of atheism as part of the larger Communist belief system. You make a distinction without a difference.

[moobu2]

64. Most deaths humblebum is attributing to being caused by atheism

actually starved to death in famines. If you want to play that numbers game then why don't you add up the people who've died unnatural preventable deaths in the USA in the 20th century and attribute those deaths to Christianity? All the people who died in the Iraq invasion, Christianity's fault. The 40,000 people who die every year in the USA due to lack of health insurance/care (4 million in the 20th century), Christianity's fault. And on and on and on. All the unnatural preventable deaths in all the democracies on the planet, where a predominant Christian population exists, would all be attributable to Christianity....in your system of blame.

[humblebum]

66. moobu2, Entire villages were starved out purposely on several

occasions, for a variety of reasons - one being the fact that certain communities refused to institute forced atheist requirements in schools, churches, and homes. Not all of these incidents were caused by people's aversion to forced atheism but forced atheism was one essential goals of the Five Year Plan. Collectivisation combined with bad weather and poor techniques on top of the government taking remaining food stores from the peasants, all were part of the mix.

[moobu2]

67. You’re playing a one sided numbers game

You're not counting and placing blame for all the millions of unnatural deaths in the west on Christianity.. like the 50+ millions who died as a result of Nazi aggression and the millions of people have died in Africa of AIDS because of Christianity’s aversion to rubbers and all the people who died as a result of the Iraq invasion on and on and on and on.

[humblebum]

68. These are not my numbers.

Those you speak of have already been accounted for - Rummel's democide figures. Also, Black Book of Communism, Storming the Heavens... Peris, Godless Communists... by Husband, and The Guinness Book of Records.

[humblebum]

70. My point is and always has been that the blame lies squarely

on extremist and fanatical groups of human beings, and has nothing to do with religion nor the absence of religion. This is clearly demonstrated by the events of the 20th century.

[kwassa]

71. You make some very strange comparisons

Naziism had nothing to do with Christianity, it was a facist political belief system, so there is no cause and effect there.

You also no proof that the lack of use of condoms in Africa has anything to do with Christian beliefs. I'd love to see that link.

[moobu2]

72. Abstinence only programs promoted by evangelical Christians,

That do not work, and the Catholic church’s official ban on the use of condoms have directly contributed to millions of peoples deaths in Africa from the spread of AIDS. There's plenty of information on the net about that and over 95% of the German population was Christian and nearly all the Nazi's were, there's plenty of information about that on the net as well.

[kwassa]

73. so you have no links and just want to assert this BS?

I thought you had no argument, and I was right.

You can't prove a causal link in either example.

[moobu2]

74. What difference would a link make?

Just use your common sense (if you have any). Do your own research, stay away from Christian propaganda websites or where ever you get your information and good luck.

[kwassa]

75. You're proposing an absurd thesis.

I really don't think you have a clue as to what you are talking about. Your so-called Christian connections are absurd on their face. Your knowledge of history is very, very limited.

I haven't heard such a preposterous thesis so poorly stated in a long time, and that is saying a lot on DU.

[kwassa]

69. Manmade famines are murder . You have made a false analogy

Stalin actively murdered large numbers of people. Some 6 million Ukranians were deliberately starved to death. Mao killed some 30 million Chinese through agricultural stupidity; he thought he could induce nature to create a whole extra harvest, which created massive crop failure.

There is no causative link between Christianity and the invasion of Iraq. There is no causitive link between Christianity and the lack of health insurance. There is a causitive link between Stalin and Mao and the famines created under their governance. The famines were the results of their actions.

[Laura902]

40. Tiger wont become an example.....

...........hes gone too far now but ridiculous conservative christians who are as ignorant as they are do not have authority to put down any religion, especially one as peaceful as Buddhism.