How appropriate is religious TV for children?

[dickthegrouch]

I have made several posts recently which have included sentiments similar to

Access to religious doctrine should be limited to people mature enough to make their own decisions regarding its effect on their lives.

With that in mind and the dangerously anti-freedom messages that many churches espouse, plus the specific hate speech heard recently from Pat Robertson (re Haiti) , The Pope (re Same-sex Marriage) and others, I am considering sending this to Comcast and other broadcast media.

Please assist me in improving it.

Comcast already has the practice of requiring customers to subscribe explicitly to some programming considered potentially dangerous to children.
I would like to serve notice that I consider religious programming equally dangerous to children as that concerning violence or sex.

I want the ability to prevent my family from watching any channel which is substantially dedicated to programming of a religious nature, and such specific shows as 700-Club.

I propose that an “F” rating be implemented for anything which is Faith-based. That way I can set a limit on watching programs with the F rating in the same way as I currently limit so-called adult programming.

Please note that I am specifically not requesting an opt-in subscription (even if at no-cost). I am requesting that all Comcast customers be afforded the opportunity to opt-out at their discretion.

[damntexdem]

1. Likely no worse than hard-core porn or excessive violence.

;-)

[Zhade]

10. You just described the bible.

XD

[Shell Beau]

2. That responsibility lies with the parents.

Opting out = turning the channel, IMO.

[defendandprotect]

20. Educate the parents who were likely also brainwashed early by religion ....

[Shell Beau]

29. Some were probably brainwashed by religion, but some people

are just religious. But adults have the responsibility of educating themselves. Just the way it goes. Either way, if you don't like what you see on the TV, either turn the channel or don't have a TV. Simple solutions for everyone.

[defendandprotect]

33. The majority of people involved with religion were put into it by parents . . .

"some people are just religious" . . . ??

What does that mean?

Most people are spiritual -- that means something from within themselves suggests

they should be at peace in the world, helpful to one another, not harm one another.

That comes from within -- not from outside of themselves.

Kids aren't going to turn off the TV -- ads are directed towards kids so they'll nag

their parents --

Kids don't pay for toys -- parents do --

This advertising is harmful to kids --

and I'd say all advertising is harmful to all of us --

MUTE your TV if an ad comes on --

[Shell Beau]

50. My parents weren't very religious.

We weren't forced to go to church. They took us if we wanted to go, but if we didn't, it was no biggie. However, as I got older and became an adult, I wanted to go to church. So I guess for me, it is the opposite of what you describe. That may not be the norm, but that is what I meant by some people are just religious or spiritual or whatever you want to call it. ALthough I do know spiritual and religious can mean two different things, for me they go hand in hand.

[timeforpeace]

3. At least Christian religious broadcasting, which I abhor, doesn't promote death to the infidels like

religious broadcasting in some other countries.

[Zhade]

11. Unless, of course, you're an abortion doctor. Or gay. Or liberal.

Fail.

[PassingFair]

56. Or Haitian, or Floridian, or Muslin. n/t

[defendandprotect]

21. Wait . . . only because they have ALREADY done that . . .

remember the Jews, the Witch Hunts, the Crusades, the "pagans" . . . ???

Homosexuals are certainly still suffering from religious preachings!!

[rd_kent]

44. No, it just promotes "believe what we believe or burn in hell for eternity".

:puke:

[TicketyBoo]

4. It should be up to the parents.

Some parents like the programming for their kids. If you don't want your kids to watch it, you can lock out the channel or closely supervise what your kids watch.

Although not particularly religious myself, I was raised as a Christian, and I sent my son to Sunday School because I didn't want him to grow up unschooled in religion and later search for spirituality in cult-like religions which I do consider dangerous.

[Fire1]

5. If you've got a tv listing menu station what difference would

an insignia make?? You click on a religious station by accident, turn the damn station! Duh.

[rd_kent]

45. You are missing the point the OP is trying to make.

He is questioning WHY subscribers have to put special effort into getting channels that are considered sexual or violent in nature, but religious programming is freely available.

The OP considers (as do I) religious programming to be dangerous to children as it IS brainwashing and indoctrination.


If a parent allows a child to watch porn, they can get into serious trouble (and rightly so), but why is allowing or encouraging your child to be brainwashed ok?

See the point that the OP is trying to make?

[spoony]

6. "dangerously anti-freedom"

You have the nerve to say that after suggesting "limiting access" to certain viewpoints? Never heard of irony, huh? Good luck with Comcast, I'm sure whatever poor sod is tasked with reading customer complaints can use the laugh.

[rd_kent]

46. What freedom do the children have to not be brainwashed?

I think that os what the OP is getting at.

[Zhade]

7. Not at all. Kids aren't equipped to understand that religious beliefs are unsupported assertions.

They don't quite know how to separate magical thinking from reality. That gets better with age, but the earlier they watch the more ingrained the belief in things for which there is no corroborating evidence becomes.

[leftstreet]

8. Advertising targeting children is what's dangerous

Kinda hard to block, it's ubiquitous

[MercutioATC]

13. Why is is "dangerous"?

[leftstreet]

14. It makes them consumers, not citizens n/t

[MercutioATC]

16. So children shouldn't be exposed to any advertising?

I'm trying to figure out your solution to this "danger".

[defendandprotect]

22. dupe

[defendandprotect]

24. Religious indoctrination is brainwashing . . . and ever see toy ads around holidays!!

[MercutioATC]

27. Agreed, but that's a parent's right.

As for toy ads, they're trying to sell a product. It's called advertising. How would you suggest toy companies sell toys?

[defendandprotect]

31. Advocates for children have always pointed to the harm of advertising to children . . .

are you totally unaware of that?

Sell toys to parents -- not kids -- kids don't pay for them --

It's a way to get kids to nag their parents for stuff --

Parents do have rights -- including the right and responsibility to educate themselves --

an essential part of being a parent --

EDUCATION . . . . THINKING . . . !!

[MercutioATC]

35. Kids are the end user. What use is marketing to parents?

Advertisements are usually targeted toward the user, not the purchaser...because it makes sense.

[MercutioATC]

9. If parents want to teach their children that there's a giant man who lives in the sky...

...that's their right.

That said, do you REALLY need another nanny law?

[defendandprotect]

25. Education is something different from making a "law" . . . Conscious-raising ...

re children and brainwashing them into male-supremacist religions is wrong ---

and especially before the age of reason which is 7 --

A child has a right to their own free thoughts, their own free will, and their own

free conscience.

By age 7, they haven't even discovered any of that yet--

[MercutioATC]

28. So you advocate it, but wouldn't support legislating it?

I can live with that.

[defendandprotect]

30. Again -- education and consciousness-raising is the answer . . .

LOTS OF IT -- !!!!

[MercutioATC]

36. You're discussing two different issues...religion and marketing.

I think it'd be great if we stamped out religion altogether, but it's still a parent's right to educate their child as they see fir (within very broad limits).

...and I don't see a problem with marketing children's products to children.

[Mari333]

12. hell I dont know but my parents made me watch Bishop Sheen as a kid

and he scared the bejesus out of me.

[PassingFair]

57. Did you ever catch Kathryn Kuhlman?

She was a FREAK!
I remember watching her on Sunday mornings
in Ohio when I was REALLY little. It was
her and Davie and Goliath back then on Sundays...

I was only 3 or 4, but I can remember KNOWING
that I was watching "teh crazy" when she came on...

[El Supremo]

15. Most of the religious programs are nothing but infomercials...

schlepping for money and selling a crazy product.

The mainstream religions don't do this shit.

It would be more appropriate to get the kid into a normal church and Sunday school class. At least so the kid can have some exposure and can later decide for himself.

[Mike Nelson]

17. Dangerous when...

their parents send money to Pat Robertson instead of buying milk and bread, which doesn't appear due to prayer.

[dysfunctional press]

18. how appropriate is brain-washing?

[defendandprotect]

19. Religious indoctrination of children should be stopped . . . especially pre-7 years of age!!

[WolverineDG]

23. that's no better than those who want all kids forced to be Christians

Parents have the right to direct their child's religious instruction, not you, not me, definitely NOT the government. Don't like it? Tough shit.

dg

[timeforpeace]

37. Touche'. Doesn't even get how intolerant he/she is, just knows others are. Cute.

[LAGC]

62. Whats so intolerant about letting kids choose for themselves?

Why should parents get to choose what their children believe? What about the children, don't they have certain rights too?

Teach children HOW to think, not WHAT to think. We'd have a better world because of it.

[SidDithers]

26. Isn't the F rating already used for Family programming?...

Perhaps you should recommend a G rating, for Gawd stuff.

Sid

[lazarus]

32. I'm as hardcore an atheist as you're going to find

But I'm also very into the Constitution. First Amendment and all that.

What we atheists have to do is communicate our position as effectively as the theists do. Everyone starts as an atheist, after all.

[The Straight Story]

34. The bigotry here sometimes is a bit much

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry

"A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.

The correct use of the term requires the elements of obstinacy, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing devotion."

Kind of cuts both ways eh?

[DeadEyeDyck]

38. here, here

[rd_kent]

39. religion in any form for children should be considered abuse and brainwashing.

Because thats what it is.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

40. Wow, just like the Soviet Union!

Religious instruction of people under 18 was forbidden by law.

[rd_kent]

42. Seems interesting that you use that as an example

and I assume that you use it sarcastically. If not, my apologies.

Here in this country, watching porn by people under 18 is forbidden by law. Why is that? If a child can be brainwashed and indoctrinated into a cult (yes, all religions are cults, they just have bigger denominations) then why can they not see porn?


I am NOT advocating that children be allowed to watch porn.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

47. I don't have kids, but if I did, I would explain to them that what the TV preachers

are yacking about is not what our religion is about. But yes, I'd raise them in my church, where they would be "brainwashed" into anti-bigotry (racial, sexual, religious), serving the needy, thinking about the ultimate questions (and yes, doubts are allowed), learning their cultural heritage, and peace and reconciliation.

I believe that children are better off brought up with SOME moral framework, because there are plenty of people out there (including the fundies, but also fringe political groups, gangs, and crass commercial interests) that can't wait to get their hooks into them, and I would want my kids to have a foundation of values, even if they rebelled against them later.

[rd_kent]

51. I applaud your conviction

and I agree that you should have the right to raise your child in your image, but as we have discussed before, YOUR religious beliefs are the EXCEPTION to the general rule about religion and more specifically, christianity in this country.

One thing I DO have a problem with is this....


I believe that children are better off brought up with SOME moral framework


Who would disagree with that? Certainly not me, but I feel you are implying that the moral framework you speak of can only come from religion, and that just is not true. Is that what you mean by that??

[Lydia Leftcoast]

53. No, not at all

If the moral framework is socialism or environmentalism or scientific empiricism or whatever the parents truly believe is important, I'm fine with that. Parents who try to inculcate values that they themselves don't hold leave themselves open to charges of hypocrisy.

My dad used to get annoyed at parents who dropped their children off at Sunday School and then went home for some couple time. His attitude was, "If you don't believe in it yourself, don't bother."

It's the parents who just say lazily, "They can decide when they're older" and who abdicate the rearing of their children to whatever influences are out there who are the problem.

By the way, I've observed that a lot of the atheists on this board speak of being raised as fundamentalists or conservative Catholics or Mormons or whatever, which is proof that being raised as one thing doesn't guarantee that you'll be that as an adult.

It also works in the other direction. I know several people who were brought up by non-religious, even atheist parents, who became religious in their twenties or later. They variously became Christian, Jewish, or Buddhist.

[Jokerman]

41. I remove the god channels from my TV. What others watch isn't my business.

Now if I could get a discount from my cable provider for all of the god channels, home shopping channels, sports channels and other crap I don't watch, that would be helpful.

[rd_kent]

43. Thats great, but what does it have to do with the OP?

And I do the same thing, too. It pisses me off that I get THOSE channels for free but have to pay extra for the ones I WANT to see. WTF?

[Jokerman]

49. My reply was poorly worded.

I know the O.P. was not advocating censorship and I agree with the idea of specific rating for religious programming but I think it's a long shot.

Most of us know that a rating doesn't equal censorship but I'm afraid the fundies wouldn't see it that way. Any attempt to rate religious programming would kick their shared persecution complex into high gear.

A cable system that allowed us to pick individual channels would keep me from subsidizing their programming and keep them from subsidizing mine, but that's not gonna happen either. The religious broadcasters will declare war against any proposal that could reduce the number of TV sets they reach.

[Iggo]

48. In my house? Zero amounts of proper.

To the tune of "Turn that shit off right now."

[Taverner]

52. I agree with you 100%

I always block the religious channels on my cable tv - especially now that I have children

Let me put it this way - I'd rather them stumble on porn than a televangelist

[Lydia Leftcoast]

54. When I was a kid, I just thought televangelists were bizarre

because they were so unlike any experience of church I had ever had.

[PassingFair]

55. I'm a 2nd generation Freethinker, raising 3rd generation Freethinking children...

But my youngest LOVED "VeggieTales", so I bought
them for her, and we talked about the stories in
them, she loved the damn things....

One day, a friend of mine came over with her daughter.

This friend of mine is VERY different. We got along
so well for so many years that I had always assumed
she was a Democrat, and one day I asked her to help
me with some campaign work for a candidate, saying,
"I assume you're a Democrat..."
She told me not to assume anything and that
she was
"a Libertarian with Republican leanings".

Not having learned my lesson after THAT admission,
I then assumed that she was religious and popped in a
"VeggieTales" video for our daughters to watch together.

When she heard the singing from the kitchen, she went
into the livingroom, saw what they were watching and
popped the tape out, saying "No genocidal tribespeople
slaughtering their way through the middle east for my
kid!" In went PeeWee Herman instead.

:rofl:

I never can tell with this friend...but I like her!

[darkstar3]

58. I wasn't gonna touch this with a 40 foot pole,

but as I continue to see responses here, I feel now like putting my $.02 worth in.

1) Vote with your remote. No one is saying you have to watch the bullshit. The same rule goes for Fox News.
2) Blackout channels that you object to. Most TVs, cable boxes, and dish systems include this feature. The same rule goes for Fox News.
3) TV ratings are absolutely no substitute for parental involvement and supervision. One great rule would be your kids watch TV when you do, until they're of an age to more properly analyze what they're seeing. There are various pieces of software and hardware that will allow you to prevent children from the television at all unless you allow it, and better technology comes around every so often.
4) Most importantly, with TVs in schools, teachers on the fringe pressing their own views,and the almighty internet just waiting out there to show your kids anything they could ever want to know about, you CAN'T shield your kids from everything. The only way to ensure that their fragile little minds don't get warped beyond all reason is to ensure that you keep solid communication lines open with your kids.

[rd_kent]

59. .

[Laura902]

60. Of all the shit on T.V kids could be watching.........

...this should be the least. It's hard to believe that a child brought up in a secular home would think to watch religious cartoons over mickey mouse or whatever and start actually believing that whatever they watched was absolutely true. It would have the same effect as watching a purple dinosaur who likes to share, none of those kids grow up or decide at that age to share more than they would before if they don't want to give up their toy! It's what their parents teach them that counts, no matter how many weird men they see on T.V who look like their walking on water. Personally If I was 7, I'd rather be watching the scary monster who eats people on the sci-fi channel, than a young man who thinks he's god and speaks in parables.
If your child gets older and in 5 years asks about religion and his/her friends who go to church, telling them the truth is what will affect them later in life.

[LiberalFighter]

61. You likely already have the ability to restrict access to those channels

either with your television or via the cable box.

I have an HDTV and my parents have a newer HDTV. Both have the ability to hide channels so that when pulling up the guide or scanning they don't show up. They do however, show when a person inputs the channel number.

It is probably possible to lock out a channel and require the access code.