Was Ayn Rand really an atheist?

[LAGC]

I've been hearing this alot lately, and I started looking into it to see how much merit there was to the claim.

According to legend, she recalled that "while in high school she determined that she was an atheist and that she valued reason and intellect."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand#Philosophy

But was she, really? I mean she worshipped unbridled capitalism with almost religious fervor, the "magic" of free markets, the majestic wonders of corporate greed, and look at her followers: if they aren't a CULT, what is?

If you believe in Objectivism, you believe in an ideology that worships selfishness, the philosophy of getting ahead at any cost by putting down others, and the spirituality of laissez-faire.

Some atheist.

[HeresyLives]

1. Yes, she was.

Capitalism, Objectivism, and free markets may be a lot of things, but they aren't a religion.

[Sal316]

5. An idol by any other name...

....is still an idol. It doesn't have to be a God.

She had her idols she worshiped.

[HeresyLives]

6. Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity.

Nothing more, nothing less.

The rightwing considers environmentalism a 'religion'.

So stop abusing the word.

[Sal316]

31. Where did I say religion?

I didn't, but thanks for telling me I did.

Rand had her own idols, ones she fervently put her faith in with almost zealot-like intensity.

Sure she was an atheist, but that doesn't mean something else didn't take the place of God.

[LAGC]

7. I guess it just goes to show...

That even if we were to somehow get rid of all religious belief (as in, the belief in deities), there would still be massive ignorance and various ideologies and memeplexes that humanity still followed in group-think fashion.

Maybe humanity really is hard-wired to zealotry, in one form or another.

[HeresyLives]

10. Not 'hard-wired' to anything.

It's simply all we've ever known.

[Jim__]

28. Not 'hard-wired' to anything?

How did you determine that?

[deutsey]

34. I suppose you could use Tillich's "Ultimate Concern" here

and say her ultimate concern was the self, market economies, and money (or whatever it was she valued most in her life).

But I think the general definition of atheist as someone who doesn't believe in religious deities applied to her.

[Zynx]

2. Did she believe in a deity? No.

By any conventional measurement, she was an atheist. By the standard of her worship of free markets, people could say that other atheists have a religious fervor for science.

[ZombieHorde]

3. Yes, Ayn Rand was an atheist.

Nothing in your argument describes a belief in god(s).

[safeinOhio]

4. From a 1964 interview in Playboy magazine:

Playboy:
Has no religion, in your estimation, ever offered anything of constructive value to human life?

Rand:
Qua religion, no—in the sense of blind belief, belief unsupported by, or contrary to, the facts of reality and the conclusions of reason. Faith, as such, is extremely detrimental to human life: it is the negation of reason. But you must remember that religion is an early form of philosophy, that the first attempts to explain the universe, to give a coherent frame of reference to man’s life and a code of moral values, were made by religion, before men graduated or developed enough to have philosophy.

[roguevalley]

9. given her views on things, I would rather be religious than what the

hell she is, the cow.

[HeresyLives]

11. She isn't a 'cow' either.

[roguevalley]

16. in your opinion.

[HeresyLives]

20. Cows are cows. Human beings are human beings.

Just because you disagree with a woman's philosophy doesn't make her a 'cow'.

The attempted insult only makes you an ass.

[roguevalley]

21. and asses are asses. attempted insult? Sort of pot calling kettle. and you are

obviously not in tune with a lot of words multiple meanings but what would I know being an ass after all. And humans are humans and cows are cows and asses are ....

jackass.

[HeresyLives]

22. Since you are aware of your own failings,

I don't need to add anything. Thank you.

[NeeDeep]

8. Some peoples minds work in full reverse or on a diff track

of the normal human reward system, that is they do not care for people because it's a completely missing ability and they actively seek a "different" reward system. Money is one (Madoff) and human hating (Limbaugh) may be another.

[niyad]

12. welcome to DU

[OHdem10]

13. Absolutely, she was an atheist, who saw believers as weak.

[kestrel91316]

14. IMHO she worshipped herself. And money.

[HeresyLives]

15. She didn't 'worship' anything.

First thing I learned in English Lit was that a story involved more than one level.

Most people can only see the surface story, and take it literally.

'Atlas Shrugged' was a parable.

[kestrel91316]

26. Atlas Shrugged was a self-indulgent, dreck-filled psychotic rant.

[Sal316]

30. Knock, Knock..

...irony calling.

I think it's for you.

[tinrobot]

37. She worshipped the ego

And parables are usually found in religious texts, btw...

[uberllama42]

17. Being the leader of a cult doesn't make you a theist

Stalin and Mao built cults around their public personas, but neither one of them believed in God. There is more to evaluating someone's philosophy than determining whether they can accurately be called an atheist. People with fanatical beliefs and disregard for evidence are dangerous even if they are not part of a religion.

You're veering dangerously close to the No True Scotsman fallacy. You seem to be arguing merely from bad behavior that Rand shouldn't be counted among the ranks of those who don't believe in God. As has been discussed at length here, there is no moral component to a lack of belief in something. I don't like most of Rand's ideas, but the fact that she was wrong about many things does not change the fact that she was an atheist.

[DeadEyeDyck]

18. Ayn was an atheists untlil her dying day...

she was asked if she believed that Frank was waiting for her in the after life and her reply was that, if so, she would commit suidide immediately. The fact that one honors reason and seld-interest does not ever make them religious. If there be a God as we have been told, she be a-cookin.

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. She was a different 'ist' -

a narcissist. It's hard to not believe in god and believe you ARE god at the same time.

[skorpo]

23. My thoughts exactly.

[HeresyLives]

24. She didn't do that either.

[tinrobot]

38. Bingo.

[MineralMan]

25. Atheism has nothing to do with any other attributes of a person.

Atheism is simply a lack of belief in gods and other supernatural entities. Beyond that, you can say nothing else in general about atheists. Objectivism is not a religion.

[Silent3]

27. The "no true Scotsman" fallacy applies as much to atheism...

...as religion.

We atheists don't let Christians get away with saying every bad Christian isn't a true Christian. We have to accept (and I think most of us do) that there are plenty of bad atheists, and they're still true atheists as long as they don't believe in God or gods.

[jgraz]

33. Sadly, it is possible to be an atheist AND an idiot.

See Jillette, Penn.

[darkstar3]

35. +1. n/t

[Dorian Gray]

29. If she didn't believe in any gods

then she was an atheist. That doesn't mean that there weren't other (political, economic, social) dogmas that adhered to.

[Iggo]

32. Beautiful day, isn't it?

Yes.

Yes it is.

:hi:

[New Dawn]

36. We should not confuse political ideology with theology.

[uranutan]

39. Come on.

Really, dude? Atheism and liberalism aren't synonymous.