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is the first amendment for monotheists only?

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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-29-10 09:04 PM
Original message
is the first amendment for monotheists only?
Is The First Amendment for Monotheists Only?
A case coming before the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals could end up having major legal ramifications for all religious minorities in the United States. Wiccan chaplain Patrick McCollum has been fighting for years to overturn the State of California’s “five faiths policy”, which limits the hiring of paid chaplains to Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, and Native American adherents. While McCollum has suffered setbacks in his quest, with a California federal district court ruling in early 2009 that he had no standing to bring his suit, he recently gained support on appeal from several civil and religious rights groups who argue that his case should be heard.

“McCollum’s central claim strikes at the heart of the rights and freedoms that the Establishment Clause, the Equal Protection Clause, and Title VII were designed to guarantee. A state policy that classifies on the basis of religion (or any other protected ground) epitomizes disparate treatment that is properly subject to challenge by a member of the excluded group.” – From an Amicus Brief submitted by Americans United For Separation of Church and State, The Anti-Defamation League, The American Jewish Committee, The Interfaith Alliance, and The Hindu American Foundation

While decisions made so far have focused only on whether McCollum has standing as a taxpayer or non-inmate to bring his suit, a new Amicus Curiae filed by the National Legal Foundation, on behalf of a conservative activist organization called WallBuilders, argues that McCollum has no standing because

*****modern Pagans aren’t guaranteed the same Constitutional rights and protections as Christian or monotheist citizens.****

“The true historic meaning of “religion” excludes paganism and witchcraft, and thus, does not compel a conclusion that McCollum has state taxpayer standing … paganism and witchcraft were never intended to receive the protections of the Religion Clauses. Thus, in the present case there can be no violation of those clauses … Should this Court conclude that McCollum has taxpayer standing … this Court should at least acknowledge that its conclusion is compelled by Supreme Court precedent, not by history or the intent of the Framers.”

These statements, while certainly not representative of modern-day understandings of the Religion Clauses, have been seemingly welcomed by the California Dept. of Corrections and Rehabilitation (CDCR), as the amicus gives no indication that they are missing consent from the defense.

. . . . . . .

http://wildhunt.org/blog/
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-29-10 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Bullshit. Part of the reason for the 1st Amend. was to stop witch hunts...
...which had a disturbing history in this country and in Europe. The 1st and the no-religious-test clause were to guarantee freedom of conscience. If it had been intended to be limited to Abrahamic monotheism, they could easily have written that into the Constitution. In fact, the framers could have given us an ecclesiastical branch of government like just about every European nation had. They didn't. They wanted no religious involvement in government. In fact, Madison who wrote the 1st and the religious test provisions was plainly horrified by the idea of the govt. hiring chaplains at all.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. That's an interesting claim about the first amendment. Do you have any links to historical
evidence for the claim?
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I refer you to Madison's private letters,...
...the text of the Constitution, Adams and Jefferson's private letters. As far as ecclesiastical branches of government go, I'm sure any survey text book on European history will reveal the power that the churches held in those countries. I'm sure you can find references to witch hunts on the internet.

I have a pretty extensive knowledge of Western history from formal education and my own reading. The information came from a hill of books and not from this electronic gadget.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. That's nice. So exactly which of Adam's, Jefferson's or Madison's private letters indicate to you
that the first amendment was primarily about witch hunts?
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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Considering that Deep never even implied that,
I think you should rephrase. Witch hunts were mentioned, but Deep13 was CLEARLY saying the First Amendment was about much more than that.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. "reason for . 1st Amend. was to stop witch hunts" is an interesting claim: so what evidence
supports the claim?
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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Wrong
Edited on Sat Jan-30-10 04:13 PM by darkstar3
You see, you're missing 3 very important words at the beginning of your quote: "Part of the".

There is no evidence that the 1st Amendment was primarily about witch hunts, but that's just fine, because no one here claimed that it was. Why are you deliberately distorting what was said?
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Still interested in evidence for the claim ...
:shrug:
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-29-10 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. pagan and witchcraft has been around longer
than the one god concept of mazaism
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-29-10 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. pagans deserve just as much protection as adherents to any other religion
period. it's that simple

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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-29-10 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Atheists do, too. nt
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-29-10 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. them too
strong and weak atheists :)

(not a troll attempt. i swear ) :)

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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-29-10 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. what a truly strange concept. All that thinking these think tanks do
and this is what they come up with? You have to be religious to get religious freedom?
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-29-10 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. and yet, some of the same folks would claim science is a religion and so evolution shouldn't be
taught in schools :eyes:
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
9. And believers wonder why us atheists just want religion kept completely out of the public sphere.
Gosh, I have no idea why we'd prefer that. :eyes:
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
10. Chaplains of any kind shouldn't be paid employees of the government
If prisoners want chaplains, let outside volunteers take the job, or prisoners who want the job themselves on a voluntary basis.

If military units or legislatures want chaplains, same basic idea.

Anyone functioning as a chaplain, even when not paid by the government, should do absolutely no proselytizing or preaching to anyone who doesn't want it, they should be there solely to perform religious functions for those who expressly ask for such services.
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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. +1
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MorningGlow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
11. Wicca
is officially recognized as a religion by the U.S.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. yes, I know that it is. pity the wallbuilders have no clue.
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