UU issue

[Tux]

I attend a UU church but, lately, I've been hating it. I love UUism however. My church is mostly middle class baby boomers with very few working class people. Each time we have a discussion is Adult Forum or after service, I get interrupted. If I try to speak to a guest speaker during coffee hour, someone has to interrupt and take over the conservation. Others will barely speak to me.

It is known in the church that I am unemployed and have trouble finding even temp jobs. While the baby boomers had it easy before free trade raised it's head again, I think they don't want me there. Afterall, my opinions aren't worth being heard but the boomer's views are more than welcome. Has anyone else ran into this?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. How old are you?

It might have more to do with age than unemployment, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it were both.

[Tux]

2. I'm 30 years old

I think age is also a factor but my gf is younger than me (she's 27) yet she doesn't have this problem. Could be the fact she is Wiccan and church did mention being welcoming to pagans.

[papau]

4. Pagans??? to be welcoming of one over another is anti-UU!!! :-)

:-)

[Tux]

7. They try to be welcoming

To gays and pagans but this Deist felt as though I wasn't welcome. My gf and I have been going there since late Feb.

I tried to join a Zen group but I kept getting the run around over when and where they meet. They tell me that I'll get a date and place but never comes. Then I have to study Zen (been there) before I can go. Now, the Zen leader tells me he'll talk to me later when I mention it but never does. Not sure what the problem is but it's annoying.

I do notice that many members need lots of attention but in general, some people are ignored. Then the board wonders why they won't come back. :eyes:

[Kire]

27. huh?

whom over whom?

[papau]

3. I attended a UU church a few months back and the folks had the usual

range of egos and need to be seen. While Indeed the longer term members were favored by the group as speakers (The topic was Social Security reform), everyone seemed pleasant and welcoming.

[IrateCitizen]

5. My wife and I left a UU fellowship, but for other reasons...

Our congregation essentially ousted our minister, only about a year and a half into her tenure. Apparently, most of the fellowship wanted someone who would strictly concentrate on "intellectual" issues without mentioning the "G-word" too much.

I served on the worship committee at the time, and we were responsible for putting together Sunday services. I'll never forget when we had a brainstorming session one day after service and someone said, "We need to figure out what we believe in as a fellowship...."

I was floored, actually. That one moment made me realize that I would never find anything approaching spiritual fulfillment there. I realized that the fellowship was essentially a bunch of white, upper-middle class, liberal humanists who gathered on Sundays to have intellectual discussions in order to feel better about themselves. There was no story, no mythology behind what we did to tie us all together.

It was basically then that my wife and I stopped attending services and decided to move on.

[kwassa]

24. A good summation of my feelings about UU, too

"the fellowship was essentially a bunch of white, upper-middle class, liberal humanists who gathered on Sundays to have intellectual discussions in order to feel better about themselves. There was no story, no mythology behind what we did to tie us all together."

I don't know why they follow the form of a Protestant church service when they have none of the content of that service. They really are a secular humanist society, and should simply own up to that.

Unitarianism is a reactive "faith" defined mostly by what it is not, rather than what it is. People become Unitarians as a reaction against the rules and strictures of another faith they were brought up in. The problem is that there is no central perception that binds all of its members together, and the children of Unitarians often don't stick with the church for that reason. There is no raison d'etre.

[intheflow]

6. I haven't had this particular problem, but

are you saying that you feel like they're snubbing you because of your economic status? I have run into UUs who feel threatened by even discussions on the possibility that they might belong to a biased, privileged economic class. Some people get really peeved, they don't like their middle class assumptions about themselves and their economic place in society challenged.

If your church has a minister, talk to him/her. I know I'd be open to a church member coming to me with this kind of problem. It might be blatently apparent to you, but no one else can see it. It also sounds like a discussion moderation problem. Who is leading the discussion making sure all voices are heard equally? This is the reason I generally dislike talk backs in the service, it is too easy for one or two people to dominate the discussion and thus discourage equal participation by all. Why talk if you're just going to be shut down?

Good luck, Tux. I hope you can work it out. Don't let the Boomers get you down!

[Tux]

10. Answers

If your church has a minister, talk to him/her.
Church doesn't have one. 100% lay led.

Who is leading the discussion making sure all voices are heard equally?
Whoever is MC of service. As for Adult Forum, no one is really in charge officially.

Don't let the Boomers get you down!
With BushInc in office, hard not too.

[intheflow]

18. Hey, you can't blame the boomers for BushCo!

Well, you can blame some of them, but a lot of boomers hang here on DU, and John Kerry is a boomer. :)

Sorry about the lay-led church. That is the problem right there, probably. The humanist intellectual thing is a problem, imo. UUs say they're welcoming to everyone, but many of those small humanist fellowships (don't call them churches) are welcoming to everyone who doesn't believe in God. Very disturbing!

I think most of that kind of UU attends a UU church just so they can tell their fundie co-workers that they go to church and keep down the prosylatizing. I know you're really limited in your UU choices--like it's this congregation or nothing in your area. :(

It'd be nice if you and the gf could look to move someplace with more UU churches and better job prospects. Small towns, small communities, can sometimes make for small minds. I know you--your mind is too expansive for that BS. Well, you know your deist soul is welcome in whatever church I finally settle in. :hi:

[Tux]

20. Moving maybe needed

We can't get interviews even for McDonald's. Drain my account to zero to do so it's a one trick pony that had best pay off.

Small towns do make small minds. At first they were fine but as time when on, it's boomers this and that. Many college students stopped by and never returned. If they would stop the "me attitude" boomers tend to have, they'd get more members.

The humanist intellectual thing is a problem
Ironicly, it's the humanists that aren't snobs generally.

I know you--your mind is too expansive for that BS
Explains why my head is getting bigger.

Well, you know your deist soul is welcome in whatever church I finally settle in.
Um, OK.

[mirandapriestly]

8. I joined a UU church and find it very unfriendly

I enjoy the sermons and find the Preacher's mentality refreshing, I also like the kids program, but no one has ever given me the time of day. I don't think it has anything to do with my economic or philosophical status.

[Last Lemming]

9. I was raised a Unitarian

and remember the churches of New England--founded by church members who fled persecution--there was always a feeling that if you had no where else to go, you could go to the Unitarian Church. (Although my brother--age six--did say once that he wanted to go to a church that "talked more about God.")

I recently moved to a conservative Southern State and for the first time in a couple decades--went to the local Unitarian Church. Very touchy-feely, with a large number of people who used the word "empower" without irony. I didn't last.

[ihaveaquestion]

11. Every UU church is different

Theologically, some are god-centered, some more pagan, some mostly humanist. Racially, most are majority white, though a few are more diverse. Economically, they tend to be fairly wealthy, but some are not. What you describe is a very common problem in UU churches.

I had a similar experience in a large wealthy UU church (>700 members) about 15 years ago. It was in a university town that was known for it's intellectual snobbery. I never felt completely a part of the church, but stayed a few years so my kids could go to the RE program. After that I found a much smaller UU church (<100 members) in a neighboring town that had just restarted it's RE program. They were not so wealthy and the town was working class. It was much more comfortable and the church had a welcoming "family" feel to it.

Not everyone is comfortable in every church and UU churches are much more individualistic than other denominations. If you can, you should church-shop to find the best fit for you.

Good Luck.

(Edited for spelling)

[Tux]

13. Church shopping is limited

From evangelical to fundie Christian churches to UU. That is all I have. I would check other UU churches but the nearest ones are over an hour away and require more gas money than I have without draining the ole bank account. No UUC (not me anyways) nor Quakers (that'd be funky). I do like UUism and will call myself an UU but this particular church seems to be out of control for it's snobby treatment of people.

[ihaveaquestion]

15. You might try a UCC congregation

The United Church of Christ is probably the most liberal and welcoming of Christian denominations. A UCC minister friend of mine used to say that they were actually UUs, but some of them just didn't want to admit it yet.

They just approved gay marriage, if that tells you anything.

http://www.ucc.org/

[Tux]

16. Nothing

Like I said, all I have to choose from is UU, fundie, and evangelical.

[ihaveaquestion]

17. Sorry bout that.

I guess as a last resort you could take up the challenge to change the climate of the church yourself. You could begin by speaking to the church leaders, trustees or other movers and shakers (they should be easy to spot) about the problem in a non-accusatory way and see if they can suggest ways to improve the situation. Hopefully they'll see the issue and help you. It's basically a socialization problem, but it could take years of concious effort to correct. If you're up for it, you could be doing them a favor.

Your very last resort could be to join the UU Church of the Larger Fellowship. It's a kind of remote church program run by the UUA for folks who have no church nearby. http://www.uua.org/clf/

Hope this helps!

[Tux]

19. I may go with CLF

With unemployment and other problems, I don't have the energy to change the ways of older people. I have to get a job so I can get an apartment et al, dental insurance, and other stuff. Changing that church will have to be left to a girl there that wants more college students to attend to they can outnumber the boomers.

[fudge stripe cookays]

12. Is it the only congregation near you?

For instance, here in the Dallas area we have 4 or 5.

They all have sort of a different feel: one is more wiccan/pagan centered, one is more a regular UU parish, etc. The one we chose is more environmental centered-- it has a labyrinth out in the garden in back (which is very well kept). It's also in a more depressed area of town, so I know not everyone there will be whitebread middle classers, which appeals to me.

We felt very welcomed when we first attended a couple weeks ago. This church is a little farther for us to drive, but I know we fit there better than we would at a wiccan-flavored one. It's just not my bag.

Maybe give it a look?
http://www.uua.org/CONG/index.php

Good luck. I hope you find a place you fit with.
FSC

[Tux]

14. Not really

Depending on family for help, I have a problem: gas or food. Food wins especially since my gf has trouble finding a job that isn't temp so I help pay for her dinners on weekends when we're together.

[raccoon]

21. I had a similar experience at a Methodist church some years ago

It was an older church, and in the Sunday school class I attended for a while, they just weren't friendly. The only person that seemed friendly to me was a woman who was their outreach coordinator.

Most of them I believe were of a higher socio-economic status than me. In about the same age group, though.

I quit going there and looked around for another church to go to.

[Tux]

22. Dang

A Christian friend of mine told me that another Unitarian church opened up. It maybe UU or AUC but both are somewhat similiar.

[Tux]

30. Oops

My friend was confused. It was Lutherian, not UU.

I did sign up for the Church of the Larger Fellowship trial membership. If that can work, I'll stick with it. I love UUism but UUA needs to clean up some things.

[Coastie for Truth]

23. We are "Friends of UU" (Dues paying, not "enrolled")

and "cafeteria" Reform Jews.

Went to to UU for the ACLU meetings, Progressive Democratic Club Meetings, and the charter bus to Peace Marches -- stayed for the "intellectual" and "political" stuff -- and strayed into the "theological" stuff.

We fit their Demographics - empty nest baby boomers, kids in mixed marriages, ACLU, Amnesty International, progressive Dem politics, Green, Prius, etc. etc. etc.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. Check out the Episcopalians

In some Episcopal parishes, it's okay to be a Deist as long as you follow the rituals.

But as in all denominations, Episcopalians vary tremendously from parish to parish. Stay away from any parish that brags about using the 1928 Prayer Book or is "faithful to the Anglican tradition."

[Maat]

26. I've had the opposite experience.

My UU congregation is VERY welcoming and kid-friendly, but the minister is pretty insistent about that.

I find that every UU has an underlying philosophy.

We alternate between going to UU and going to Church of Religious Science (a belief that Spirit is a power within and without). CRS is a New Thought philosophy. So, I call myself a UUer of the New Thought variety. I'm the only one there.

We have a nice mixture of cultures, incomes, underlying beliefs, etc.

I think that the online church referenced in a post above is a great suggestion for an onliner like yourself.

Why should geography limit us anymore?

[Kire]

28. I'm a "recovering Unitarian"

raised UU, hated it then -- you're right about the "mostly middle class baby boomers" -- in fact, your experience mirrors mine precisely -- I went to a viewing of "Hotel Rwanda" there last month and the most memorable interaction was one lady complaining that she didn't like the movie because it was "difficult" and the High School kid right in front of me was grinding into his girlfriend the whole movie (even during the massacre scenes).

Thank you for your post.

[LiberalEsto]

29. Each congregation is different

I've belonged to 4 UU congregations over the years. One was awful, one was so-so, and two were and are fantastic.

When we moved to Maryland (after belonging to 2 congregations in NJ, the last one friendly and wonderful), we joined the congregation nearest our home. They were never welcoming. At the newcomers' orientation the attitude was "What can you do for us?" and "You have to volunteer for this and for that because unless you volunteer for committees you will not have friends here." They weren't interested in us, or what they had to offer us, only the volunteer work they could squeeze out of us.

Even after a few years, nobody at the Cold Church bothered talking with me in coffee hour. Often as not I'd go wash cups in the kitchen and cry into the sink. It was like a closed club and newcomers weren't wanted except as workers. Then they got really money-grubby and decided that if you didn't pledge at least $1000 a year, you were lower than dirt and didn't deserve to attend the church.

This new attitude combined with the founding of a new congregation nearby prompted an exodus of several families from the Cold Church. We have been going to services on and off at the new congregation for 11 years and love it and like everyone there. It's like a big, ever-expanding family, and there's always room for more. I volunteer gladly. Unemployed people (as I was for 13 months) are given emotional support, and everyone shows concern and tries to help.

The difference between the two congregations is like night and day. I encourage you to look around and see if there's a more welcoming congregation near you.

[benny05]

31. This has been a very interesting discussion

I am a UU, but I don't attend services regularly here. The church is fine, the minister is good, but I have colleagues who go to church there, and sometimes, I prefer just going to service, listening to the minister, then leaving. I'm not in the space to contribute much of my time or discretionary funds I need for my mom or to sock away for the future or other goods/services/experiences I want more, but that's my own choice, and it hasn't anything to do with the congregation here.

My experiences have been mixed over the years. I attended one regularly in a college town, and while the Congregation was pretty welcoming to me, it wasn't openly welcoming to gays. It was a small congregation, and often, there were disagreements over strategic direction, which meant resources were often misplaced. The other issue is that I dated someone there, and we broke up, so I decided to check out some larger group 90 miles away.

In the larger city, there were 2 UU churches that were about comparable size. One was in the wealthy part of town. They had trouble with their minister (some kind of scandal of sorts), so they have guest ministers, one of which I saw who used the word "God" many times. As a panthesist, I felt "God" was being shoved down my throat. To be fair to this group, the congregation had a semi-annual business meeting following the sermon, thus, I didn't get to meet many folks during coffee hour. However, one of them suggested I try another UU church--closer to downtown, and not in the greatest area of town, but that quite a few folks liked going there.

The following Sunday, I went. The sermon was superb, and I went to lunch with a group of folks afterward. They were nice. Eventually, I went 3 of 4 Sundays and started meeting people. I did do a little volunteer work, which was a great way to also meet people.

Eventually, it was too time consuming to keep going 90 miles to that church, and I met someone back in my town, so I quit going to that friendly church. My spouse and I exchanged vows in the smaller town church, and it was nice. I still have a couple of friends who moved away and we are in touch a few times a year by phone or e-mail.

I don't know the size of the town or the church the thread starter attends, but my sense is that it is a fellowship and not a church. To chime in with others, congregations do vary. In spirit, I am a UU, and I continue to talk with UU's from my profession. I send jokes to one colleague in Iowa who is a "doer" in his UU church, and often, I know which jokes will appeal to him and his UU friends.

I am surprised that no one is in charge of Adult Discussions or anything else around that Fellowship, in terms of leading groups. Otherwise, it sounds as though there are some folks who like to hear themselves talk in the absence of a good facilitator.

There is a set of principles that should guide any congregation:

--The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
--Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
--Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
--A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
--The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
--The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
--Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

Not every congregation follows these principles to the letter, but as an individual, I try to follow them as much as I can.

If I were in this person's shoes, returning there to seek to make friends unless you are willing to assert yourself a little more doesn't seem plausible at this point. Perhaps talking to other UU's online through discussion lists: http://www.uua.org/lists/ would suffice for spiritual needs.

My 2 cents...

[acidflower]

32. UU member

I am a member of a UU church & I have generally felt very welcome there. It has provided me with a liberal oasis in a very conservative area & enabled me to meet a number of like-minded folks for a change. My only complaint would be the (IMHO) excessive emphasis on the Bible during sermons, to the exclusion of other faiths' scriptures. I understand the method to this madness, which is to gain a better working knowledge of how to use the Bible to successfully debate issues with Christian fundamentalists & the like. Still, I would like to hear more from other faiths, paganism, and so forth, as they are all different paths we can use to drink from the same river.

[u4ic]

33. Welcome to DU, acidflower

:hi:

[benny05]

34. Welcome to the DU

:hi: