Help, I am just tired of the fight. at Church and in my Spiritual Life.

[sorrybushisfromtexas]

I am 60, I am a Christian. I am a Liberal. I am a Progressive. I am a Democrat (Dad taught me that there was 2 types of Republicans-one was rich- the other type was stupid). I am public school teacher (Science 32 years at the same school). I have been an active deacon in two Southern Baptist Churches(you talk about being a minority). I have been a Southern Baptist for 55 years. I am a pro choice advocate that believes abortion should be very very rare. I have actively worked at Pregnancy Crisis Centers. I work in a school district where the only sex education is abstinence and I watch 13 and 14 year olds become fathers and mothers each year. Duh, Abstinence doesn't work for all. I support Marriage for our Lesbian and Gay sisters and brothers. I have a nephew who is Gay that is like my son.
I am tired of the everything in life being either black or white, right or wrong. I am tired of being in a church situation where I find it hard to be open and even to worship. I am tired of about hearing about the righteous anger of The Tea Party Movement in my Sunday School Class. I am tired of being asked that how could a Christian be a Democrat. I am tired of our President being reviled because he wants to expand Health Insurance ( I tell them to read Matthew 25 and tell me how they are against expanding Health Care.
I think it is time to change Denominations.

Any Suggestions on a good liberal denomination. Remember that I live in Texas so the pickings might be slim.

[madrchsod]

1. UCC....

http://www.ucc.org/

[sorrybushisfromtexas]

3. Thanks, I love their commercials on TV.

My city in Texas does not have a UCC. The closest is in the Dallas Area. That is 130 miles away.

[Sylvarose]

4. Yep..I second that suggestion

Here where I live the local UCC affiliated church is also affiliated with American Baptist Churches USA.

Good luck. You are not alone. There are many Christian Progressives/Liberals. :)

SR

[SocialistLez]

25. +1

We only have one in Arkansas and I went there to see a documentary on the lives of African-American lesbians.

I'm an atheist but I felt pretty comfortable in that church. If I was a believer, it would be my first choice.

[Nancy Ruth]

2. United Methodist?

They tend to be more liberal than most; although perhaps in Texas that may not be the case. Also, Unity is a good choice if you can find one.

[nevergiveup]

5. There are more folks like you than you think.

Forty years ago I became a closet Christian. The hypocrisy in organized religion drove me away. I know others like me. Maybe you could start your own liberal Christian prayer/study group. You might be surprised of the interest even though you live in a very conservative area.

[xchrom]

6. You might have to check your churches there

But I love being an episcopalian.

Mostly very liberal but there some conservative
parishes.

[Fumesucker]

7. Episcopalians don't care how many times you've been born..

I've been an atheist for many years but I was raised Episcopalian and Southern Baptist for reasons too involved to get into here, the difference between the two denominations is like night and day.

http://www.epicenter.org/assnfe/CompanyDirectory.asp?MODE=FIND&COMPANY_TYPE=1&SEARCH_TYPE=4&SnID=2

[get the red out]

8. My sister attends a "Disciples of Christ"

My sister and her husband attend a Disciples of Christ Church here in Kentucky that is very liberal and inclusive. They are both Democrats and she is VERY liberal. They have a few folks in her congregation that send her hateful Republican emails from time to time, but she says they are easily outnumbered by people that are either liberal or just don't care about other people's politics and don't bring it up. She says that the services aren't politically oriented, which is not what I hear about a lot of dominations here.

Best of luck! I am one who believes in "something out there" but can't swallow the Bible stuff, so I haven't tried to search for a Church myself. A former co-worker, older guy who is both a life-long Democrat and WAS a life-long Baptist, quit his Church when the Baptists started hammering that women were subservient to men. He said he refused to look at his wife that way, that they had maintained an equal partnership for 40 years and he didn't believe it should be any other way.

Republicans have really commandeered the Churches in this country, especially in the south.

[intheflow]

19. I'm going to second Disciples of Christ.

(Not related to Christ's Disciples, which is very conservative.) They are related spiritually to the United Church of Christ (different from Church of Christ), probably the most liberal of the Christian churches, but I couldn't find one in Wichita Falls on Google. When I was working as a Unitarian minister in Mississippi, our exceedingly small liberal clergy cluster included a very wonderful Disciples minister.

I also saw there were a few Methodist churches in town. They can run the gamut from wicked conservative to wildly liberal. You might want to check a couple of them out, too.

[Smarmie Doofus]

9. The history of Christianity is the history of people changing....

... denominations. ( Post-Luther anyway; before that it was pretty much people getting burned at the stake.)

I'm non-theistic but am interested in religion. Sects that might be compatible with your POV might include most Episcopal, Lutheran; UU's and Quakers ( of course). There are others.

Some Christians affiliate with Ethical Culture societies. They're non-sectarian and non theistic. "Deed before creed". That sort of thing. You'll meet non-Christians there as well.

Good luck.

[notadmblnd]

10. Church is where you make it

I was raised southern baptist too. I gave it up long ago and turned my back on organized religion all together. Talk to some of the members of your church and find out the reasons they attend. I can guarantee the answers won't be to learn and hear the word of god and to become a better person. More than likely, it's because they need some place to show off their clothes, cars and other worldy possessions, or, and this is my favorite; they need someone to perform at funerals and weddings or they enjoy the fellowship of the other church members. These are the type of answers I got when I asked questions.

Going to church will not get you a place in heaven. If you believe in god, then he is forever in your heart, not in a building with a cross on it, on Sunday mornings.

BTW, do Christians really think that if Jesus were to return tomorrow- that he'd really want to see a cross?

[madrchsod]

11. there`s 49 of these in texas and i think this is what you`d like

http://www.uua.org/

maybe you are close

http://www.uua.org/aboutus/findcongregation/results.php?state=TX

[intheflow]

20. Going from Baptist to Unitarian?

Probably not what he's looking for. Most the UU churches I've been to in Texas are filled with atheists and pagans and unfortunately, Christians are often left feeling unwelcome in the congregations. :(

[JDPriestly]

23. I'm Unitarian. No two congregations are the same. The Austin group might be good.

United Methodist, Episcopal or United Church of Christ are the three denominations I would suggest.

Quakers are also great people. With Episcopalians, and Methodists, it very much depends on the congregaiton.

[intheflow]

31. I used to be a UU minister.

I've been to a lot of congregations across the country and very much understand that all UU congregations are different. But the ones in the south are often filled with people who are fleeing bad Christian backgrounds and sadly project their pain onto liberal Christians who might otherwise resonate with the UU message. Besides, there is no UU church in Wichita Falls, where the OP lives, other than a "virtual" UU church there which seems to exist only on facebook. There also isn't a UCC church in that area. There is a Disciples of Christ church, a denomination that shares spiritual/congregational roots with both the UUs and the UCCs, that's where I would check first if I were the OP.

Editing to add... I did notice in the South that UU churches (in the South) that started as Universalist tended to stay more Christ-centered and open to Christian members. But, you know, still a moot point since no UU church exists in that area of Texas.

[deutsey]

39. I didn't see your post until after I left mine below. I agree with you.

I'm a member of a very open and tolerant UU fellowship (that's not just my opinion, but the assessment of UUA officials who have visited), but even there I sometimes hear anti-Christian/anti-theist comments that make me sigh. Nothing overtly hostile or even mean-spirited, just kind of closed-minded or negative projections of their Christian experiences.

I gave a lay sermon there on the history of communion and the need for communion that I still feel (I based the sermon on a book called Take This Bread: A Radical Conversion by Sara Miles). People received it generally well, but I had the feeling from what some said to me that they missed my point entirely because they weren't able to hear it through their thick disdain for "Christianity."

Now that you're not a UU minister, do you still attend a UU congregation? Just wondering. I've considered UU ministry, but I'm too poor and have a family with kids in elementary school and middle school; I feel it would be too costly and disruptive. I've tried, believe me. Every time I've attempted to move forward with it, though, I can't seem to figure out that parting-the-Red-Sea trick that would allow me to proceed. :-)

[barbtries]

12. i don't do religion

so take this with a grain of salt, but i think Unitarian might be just what you're looking for. i recall marching with them against the wars, so i'm pretty sure it's possible to be Unitarian and progressive and a democrat. please post when you find. and good luck to you.

[LiberalLoner]

13. I'm ELCA and they are very much like Episcopalians - pretty liberal. n/t

[AlecBGreen]

17. I was raised Lutheran as well

ELCA. Our congregation is pretty progressive but the worship is still traditional. If you can find a ELCA church in your area, go check it out.

Best of luck :) I know it must be very hard for you defending your beliefs against those less tolerant.

[JerseygirlCT]

41. Our churches are in communion, no?

ECLA and TEC...

[liberal N proud]

14. I have not been to church much for some time

Mainly do to similar reason as you mention.

I don't think my faith is less for it, but my sanity couldn't take it any longer.

We are traveling and will attend an Easter Service somewhere but there is not interaction with the congregation that way.

[YOY]

15. Find another church.

You can teach ignorant. You cannot fix stupid.

[saltpoint]

16. Just one person's take here, but I'd agree with you that a change in

denominations is a good idea.

Sooner rather than later would be my thought.

Are you near any Unitarian Universalist groups? They are worth looking into.


There are web sites for most churches these days. Maybe look into the various congregations in your area and choose one that seems better suited to your personal philosophy.

It sounds to me as if you are a lot more open-minded than your current church. Time to move on.

[MindandSoul]

18. I feel your pain! But I thank you for keeping in touch with what

seems to be an excellent moral compass!

I'm not sure if you can find a church in Texas that will really meet your need. . .but it is worth trying!

[USA_1]

21. Start Your Own Church!

Nothing in the New Testament says that you must subscribe to denominational Christianity.

The word "church" comes from the Greek term eklesia which means a collection of people. In other words, it is people who make up a church and which means that a church is NOT a building or institution. Gather up like minded friends and neighbors and conduct religious services in your living room or backyard. This is precisely what was done in New Testament times.

Also remember that only 2 people are needed to constitute a church. Therefore, if you wish to have a religious service with members of your family, that will suffice according to New Testament teaching. See Matthew 18:20.

Churches cause division in that each preaches what is convenient for their views. As such the Apostle said, "I beseech you Brethren, mark them that cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ but their own belly ..." See Romans 16:17, 18.

[Enthusiast]

22. Dang, you are a minority!

Those abortions could be very very rare if only birth control was readily and cheaply available. I believe it would be in the nation's best interest to actually subsidies birth control for youngsters. But that's just me. I'm also a rare minority of one.

[GeorgeGist]

24. The simplest advice ...

don't mix religion and spiritual life. Seriously!

[rrneck]

26. Sure. Start your own. nt

[glinda]

27. My very close friend from Missouri felt the same way and left her Church. She is

now attending a Lutheran Church and likes it very much. She is much like how you describe yourself also. It made her very sad to see the hate the members and pastor had and just before she left, they damaged her car.

[struggle4progress]

28. Wichita Falls is big enough to give you options: look around.

You can find ELCA Lutheran, Episcopal, United Church of Christ, United Methodist, Unitarian Universalist ...

[jimlup]

29. My family has always been very liberal. We are episcopalians.

You should be able to find denominations in Texas. My dad is an episcopal minister in North Carolina. He is always happy to welcome what he calls "recovering Baptists"

[eridani]

30. United Church of Christ

Unitarians--they welcome anyone from Christian to atheist. Also, I'd reccomend looking at particular congregations and not paying so much attention to the denominational labels.

[tama]

32. A song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgu6ISTO-mg

[ironbark]

42. And a dance...or three.

Greek Zorba Alexis Zorbas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AzpHvLWFUM&feature=related

Zorba the Greek Yolngu style
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-MucVWo-Pw

chooky dancers comedy gala 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdOeS_bJzE0&feature=related

“Ye higher men, the worst thing in you is that ye have none of you learned to dance as ye ought to dance—to dance beyond yourselves”!
Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra.

[Festivito]

33. Many are called, few are chosen...

Seems the case, does it not.

Many are on a strange journey. Move on if you must, or help those who need it.

Godsped.

[SwampG8r]

34. howdy

i want you to consider that the irritation you have at your present situation is possibly God prodding you to change it.
if you go to another church you are kind of abandoning the people at the previous church.
its clear from what you say that the direction the church is taking isnt good.

you listed my favorite bible bit in the OP
matthew 25
god bless you and happy easter

[TreasonousBastard]

35. Well, there may be no reason to leave the Baptists, since, as you know...

there are a lot of different Baptists out there, and they're not all SBC. Far from it.

You would know more than I do about the ABC and other Baptist organizations, but here's two you may not have heard of:

The Baptist Peace Federation of North America is a group of churches that started out working for peace, but branched out into other liberal causes. May be one near you:

http://www.bpfna.org/pclist

Welcoming and Affirming Baptists are primarily concerned with gay and lesbian rights, but they are pretty liberal in other areas, too:

http://www.wabaptists.org/wachurches.htm

There really is no list of "liberal" sects, since even Quakers and UUs, the ones I'm most familiar with, absorb the attitudes of the communities they serve. Methodists, Episcopalians, UCC Congregationalists, ELCA Lutherans... All can be liberal in one congregation and hopelessly retrograde in another across town.

You don't sound like you want to go the UU route and suppress most of your Christian beliefs, or join a church that has has a protest of the week. It might be difficult to find a more suitable church down there, but I'd suggest just dropping in a few that seem OK and seeing how you would fit in. The brand name should really be the last consideration-- a church should be a community you feel like you belong in.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

36. If you want to remain Baptist, find out if there's an American Baptist church in your area

I once taught at a college of the American Baptist church. I was a bit apprehensive about accepting a job there, but the campus chaplain said, "No, we aren't THAT kind of Baptist."

Otherwise, it may be time for you to go "church shopping." Personally, I like Unitarian people, but since I like to have some actual religion in my religion, I could never actually be a Unitarian. I suggest trying the UCCs, the United Methodists, the ELCA Lutherans, and the Episcopalians.

There is a great deal of variation among the latter three, with some being liberal and some being conservative. You'll never know till you try. When I've gone church shopping in a new community (although I've always limited myself to Lutheran and Episcopal options), there has come a time when one parish or another just seemed right almost instantly. Once I ignored that instinct (out of some idea that I HAD to be a Lutheran, due to family traditions) and spent several miserable months because of it before I switched over the Episcopal church that I had preferred in the first place.

If you want to narrow your search, call the regional headquarters of each denomination (called a synod (sinnod) in the Lutheran church and a diocese in the Episcopal church; I don't know what the Methodists and UCC call their regional divisions) and ask which are the most liberal parishes. They'll know.

Good luck!

[skepticscott]

37. Ask yourself seriously why you need a denomination at all

Don't allow the arbitrary rules of any organization, religious or otherwise, to define your life.

[deutsey]

38. I would say Unitarian Universalist, but some UUs are "recovering" Christians

who can be too down on their former religion, imo.

BTW, I'm a UU who used to belong to the United Methodist Church. I still draw from my Christian background, so I always bristle at the anti-Christian sentiment among some (certainly not all) UUs. Although I still have an interest in Christianity, aspects of Eastern cosmology (Buddhism, Hindu Vedanta, Taoism) are more in harmony with my personal experience.

If you're interested in a checking out a UU congregation, go to www.uua.org and use the search function in the upper righthand corner.

These are all the UU congregations in Texas (you can search by ZIP code as well):
http://www.uua.org/aboutus/findcongregation/results.php?state=TX

[JerseygirlCT]

40. Being an Episcopalian, that's obviously my first suggestion

Although it may depend on where exactly you live. IIRC, the Ft. Worth diocese is known for its backward ways and hate for women and gays...

In fact, while the church as a whole is moving toward justice, pockets of other crap still exist - you'd really want to check out the particular church to be sure.

And that's likely the best suggestion of all - regardless of denomination. Talk to the people, call and ask about something like whether they are an open and affirming place. The way they answer may tell you much!

But I've been quite happy in TEC. No one will ask you to check your brain at the door. There is a huge amount of room for personal discernment. We share worship, but have a wide variety of opinions on almost all things theological.

[Rowdyboy]

43. My current priest was a Southern Baptist preacher until his divorce 30 years ago...

When they kicked him out he became an Episcopalian and was ordained. Our small, rural Mississippi congregation is very gay friendly. I wish you much luck.