So what's the deal with Scientology?

[catbert836]

After seeing it featured last night on the Daily Show's "This Week in God" I have resolved to understand this whole Scientology thing. Why do people here dislike it so much? OK, maybe it's just Tom Cruise. But seriously. What's wrong with Scientology?

[flyingfysh]

1. Scientology is a dangerous cult

See www.xenu.net for lots of details.

[ret5hd]

2. cult...and a dangerous one.

[ET Awful]

3. Start here

http://www.clambake.org

http://www.lermanet.com/

http://www.lisamcpherson.org/

http://www.whyaretheydead.net/abortions.html

That should give you a good start.

[petepillow]

4. aside from being deliberately conjured up by a science fiction writer

looking to make his fortune? aside from the fact that levels of "enlightenment" involve hundreds of thousands of dollars? aside from the fact that it essentially began as a religion 60 years ago?
nothing really. looks like a lot of fun for rich people who get to meet up, go on "spiritual" cruises, and rag on the rest of the world for not understanding how things "really" work.

[Vinnie From Indy]

5. His best point was....

Stewart was hilarious after he described how Scientologists believe that aliens came to earth millions of years ago and enslaved the humans on this planet. They droppedd hydrogen bombs and released "thetans" which burrowed into every human. Stewart said, "C'mon! if they had a burning bush or a virgin birth, it might be believable".

[catbert836]

8. That wasn't Stewart, it was Stephen Colbert.

n/t

[beam me up scottie]

9. Exactly!

Two thousand years from now, it will be a major religion.
They have a lot of killing, misogyny and enslaving to catch up on before they can compete with the big 3.

[MichiganVote]

6. Its based on science fiction from a writer who wrote....fiction...

[tocqueville]

7. has been forbidden in several European Countries

not only because they chased and threatened people wanting to leave but because they illegally pressed money out of members.

Scientology's aim is to make as much money as possible out of people's stupidity

[Ian David]

12. It gets worse than that: Lisa McPherson killed by Church of Scientology

Lisa McPherson Memorial Page: killed by the Church of Scientology
Dedicated to a young woman who this site says was "killed by the Church of Scientology." Overview of the case, timeline, news coverage, information on the ...
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/


Conspiracy to murder
http://www.scientology-lies.com/conspiracy.html

According to Scientology's Fair Game policy , an enemy of Scientology "May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed ." Are the following allegations the result of that policy?

Margery Wakefield’s affidavit states that she attended a meeting at which she heard two murders planned
http://www.scientology-lies.com/margerywakefield4.html
http://www.scientology-lies.com/re.cgi?http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/mpoulter/sods/margery.html

Scott Mayer's affidavit describes being "instructed to kill another human being by the Scientology organization."
http://www.scientology-lies.com/scottmayer.html
http://www.scientology-lies.com/re.cgi?http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/mpoulter/worst/scottm.html



Scientology's Crimes

"Since 1986 authorities in France, Spain and Italy have raided more than 50 Scientology centers. Pending charges against more than 100 of its overseas church members include fraud , extortion , capital flight, coercion , illegally practicing medicine and taking advantage of mentally incapacitated people."
http://www.scientology-lies.com/re.cgi?http://home.sol.no/~spirous/CoS/archive/time910605.html



Current News

Trial pending: USA: Lisa McPherson - Wrongful Death, Practicing Medicine Without a License, Torture, more
The state of Florida has decided not to prosecute the two felony charges of unauthorized practice of medicine and abuse and/or neglect of a disabled adult in the case of Lisa McPherson, who died in Scientology's custody on December 5, 1995. However, a civil suit has been filed by her estate, alleging wrongful death, intentional infliction of emotional distress, false imprisonment, fraud, battery, negligence, and practicing medicine without a license.

Other people have also reported fraud , the unauthorized practice of medicine , and false imprisonment .

Trial pending: Ireland: Brainwashing
Mary Johnston is suing Scientology, saying she underwent a personality change and her health suffered while she was undergoing Scientology processing. She recently won the right to see her auditing folder (notes kept on her from Scientology processing sessions).

Trial pending: USA: Fraud, false imprisonment, assault, extortion, kidnapping, defamation, invasion of privacy, infliction of emotional distress, and racketeering
Michael Pattinson is suing Scientology for several counts of fraud and a variety of other extremely serious charges. The suit garnered some national press (including stories in the Guide and Fab! and at MSNBC ) because it names John Travolta, alleging that Scientology claimed they could "cure" Pattinson's homosexuality and used Travolta as an example of a homosexual whose orientation they had changed.

<snip>

1999: Greece: Scientologists found guilty
15 Scientologists were accused of systematically keeping files on politicians, journalists, judges, clergymen and other Greek leading personalities. The Scientologists were found guilty , but they were not sentenced, due to procedural errors. (In other words, they got off on a technicality.)
In 1998, a judge ordered the Scientology organization in Athens to stop operating, since the organization was established under false pretenses . According to the ruling, the organization was not operating as a non-profit, and was putting people's mental and physical health at risk.

1997: Italy: Scientologists jailed
29 Scientologists were sentenced to jail for criminal association .

1996: France: Scientology executive found guilty of involuntary homicide
"A former Church of Scientology leader was convicted Friday of involuntary homicide and sentenced to 18 months in prison in the 1988 suicide of a church member. Twelve other defendants facing lesser charges - theft, complicity or abuse of confidence - were given suspended sentences of eight to 15 months each. Charges were dropped against 10 others." The Scientologists were charged in the death of Patrice Vic .

More:
http://www.scientology-lies.com/crimesindex.html

[Ian David]

10. See related threads

L. Ron Hubbard shares his memories of a 1963 trip to...Heaven.
Topic started by Bush_Eats_Beef on Jun-23-05 12:34 AM (10 replies)
Last modified by sam sarrha on Jul-17-05 01:27 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=111&topic_id=43687


What's so weird about Scientology compared to other religions?
Topic started by fujiyama on Jun-20-05 08:22 PM (236 replies)
Last modified by iconoclastic cat on Jun-21-05 01:05 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=214&topic_id=22028


"Do you agree with Tom Cruise that Aiens exist?"
Topic started by BiggJawn on Jun-29-05 10:46 AM (14 replies)
Last modified by SteppingRazor on Jul-13-05 05:01 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=247&topic_id=1385


Scientology
Topic started by JI7 on Jan-17-05 10:01 PM (11 replies)
Last modified by HawkerHurricane on Mar-21-05 10:36 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=247&topic_id=507



what's the deal with tom cruise?
Topic started by fryguy on Jun-24-05 05:23 PM (29 replies)
Last modified by soleft on Jun-30-05 10:10 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=210&topic_id=7270




Make your own "Cult of Greed" t-shirt just like the one Xenu's SPs wear.
http://www.cnbc.cmu.edu/~dst/Xenu/tshirt.html

[Ian David]

11. Horrible Truths for Scientologists: Body Thetans

Horrible Truths for Scientologists: Body Thetans by Roland Rashleigh-Berry
http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/htruebt.htm
---



Scientology Crime Syndicate

Horrible Truths for Scientologists

(C) Copyright, Roland Rashleigh-Berry, [e-mail] 20th November 1998. Permission is granted to everyone to freely host, copy and distribute this document.

Body Thetans

Scientologists have heard about "Thetans", "theta" as well as "theta bodies" perhaps, but they won't have heard the term "Body Thetans", nor will they be able to find it in their Tech dictionaries.

This is because the information is being withheld from them until they reach a secret level in Scientology known as "OT III". On this level, they are told that they are full of the Thetans (or souls) of murdered space-aliens. Roughly 2,500 of them. And they have to talk to them telepathically to make them go away. These aliens were once part of the local galactic confederation of 75 million years ago, ruled over by the evil galactic overlord Xenu (sometimes said as Xemu).

The galactic confederation supposedly consisted of 22 suns with their 76 inhabited planets. That makes three or four inhabited planets per sun. This fits in with L. Ron Hubbard's view that other planets in our own solar system were inhabited, namely Venus (whose government is monitored by the Fifth Invader Force -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Venusian.ram ), Mars (inhabited by the earlier Fourth Invader Force -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Mars.ram ) and Jupiter (by people who he said would look like Eskimos -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Jupiter.ram ).

These aliens were supposedly similar in appearance to ourselves as we are now. The average populations of these planets was 178 million or 250 million on average (both figures are quoted in the same line on the handwritten OT III document).

This was an overpopulation problem for Xenu. To solve it he called most of the inhabitants of these planets in for income tax inspections where they were instead given injections of a mixture of alcohol and glycol into their lungs to paralyze them. They were then frozen and put on DC-8 identical space-planes and flown across space to planet Earth (then called Teegeeack) http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/DC-8s.ram

If the story is to be believed, then this would have happened to about 4 trillion people. The story makes it clear that the actual corpses of people were transported to Earth. Supposing each DC-8 could carry 200 frozen bodies in refrigerated units at a time and the excess population per planet was 100 million, then 500,000 DC-8 space-plane flights would have been required to ship these people to Earth. If the return trip were 6 weeks, as mentioned in the "Assists" lecture in relation to the three weeks from Coltice to Earth, and if this were all achieved in six months, then each planet would have required 125,000 DC-8 space-planes.

When the people arrived on Earth, all 4 trillion of them were stacked around ten or so volcanoes and then nuked. After they were nuked their Thetans (souls) were captured in electronic beams, boxed up and taken to cinemas. There they were shown pictures of what life on Earth should be like and they were also shown false pictures of God and Christ to instill a religious fervor in them that would make them less effective and so easier to control.

The Thetans were frozen, again, in alcohol and glycol - a supposed very effective way for capturing Thetans. The start of these films was unusual in that the first two days of it were taken up with a helicopter about to crash ( http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Helicopt.ram ) After watching these films, which lasted several days, these Thetans clustered together and now inhabit our bodies.

These films supposedly set the scene for the future. The houses, theaters, trains, boats, planes etc. of the late 1950's were supposed to be copies of those at the time of this incident and the same as those shown to the body Thetans in the films. Hence society of the 1950's was a copy of what life was like 75 million years ago. And since these images were implanted in these body Thetans and they were required to act out these scenes, then this was a block to further progress. In inhabiting our bodies, we too inherit these images which then govern our lives. Indeed, we are, in most cases, one of these same body Thetans - it is just that we are the one in charge or the "leader" body thetan or controller.

Scientologists are required to exorcise all these body Thetans if they are to make spiritual progress within their religion. Once gone then they are supposed to regain their own powers. They talk to them telepathically to make them go away. This whole incident, as described, is known as "R6", or "Incident Two". In liberating these body Thetans it is important to get to the first time something like this happened. It is called "getting the basic on the chain of events".

This was not the earliest incident though, since there was supposedly an Incident 4 quadrillion years ago, called Incident One, in which Thetans were confused by a chariot charging at them as well as a cherub blowing a horn before blackness was dumped on them. If these body Thetans are reminded of this then they leave the body readily and with some noise and energy. L. Ron Hubbard described how he readily achieved this on himself ( http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/BTs.ram ).

When the body Thetans (or "BTs") leave, they are Clear and are able to operate as Thetans. They have become "Operating Thetans" - a high goal in Scientology. They then supposedly decide to be flowers or butterflies.

The Cracks Appear

On the surface, the above story may seem plausible. However, incisive thinking on these events lead to questions that challenge the validity and accuracy of this story.

1) DC-8 space planes

Each planet would have had to manufacture about 100,000 new DC-8 space planes for this task within, let us say, a six month period. This would have put an enormous strain on the planet's resources. And of course airports would have to have been constructed for this five-fold planned increase in space traffic. With all planets heavily overpopulated, the clearing of buildings to make new airports would have been a very noticeable and unpopular move which would have made the inhabitants curious as to what the new space-planes would have been used for. Rumors would have been rife and this would have led to civil unrest that would have disrupted these developments.

Another minor point is of the positioning of the rockets engines on the DC-8. If this were to the rear, then it contradicts L. Ron Hubbard's claim that they were identical to DC-8 passenger planes since they do not have rocket outlets at the rear. If, instead, the rockets were placed where the jets were, then as soon as the DC-8 had gotten beyond the atmosphere, it would have started flying around in circles, as the rocket engines would not have been directly in line with the center of gravity of the space-plane.

2) Income Tax Offices

People being called in for income tax inspections would be highly suspicious if their friends were called in, never to be seen again. They would have suspected that something were amiss and would have refused to go, especially after knowing that 100,000 DC-8 space planes with their corresponding airports had been built. For this to be effective, all the visits to the tax offices would have to have been completed in a very short time. A week or less. Let us estimate that there were 10,000 income tax offices on each planet. If 100 million people were to make visits then each office would have to see at least one thousand people per day. This would have caused people to queue and they would have noticed that although people were seen to enter, they were not seen to leave. This would have raised suspicion.

3) Technological Progress

Technology has progressed since the 1950's. If all life is dictated by the films the body Thetans saw, then we would not have developed technology beyond DC-8 planes, for example. We now have supersonic fighter planes and supersonic passenger aircraft as well as Stealth bombers. The technology is far in advance of DC-8s. The same goes for the design of houses, boats, trains, compurters etc. Society on Earth and its technology does not appear to be stuck at any timepoint. Technological progress has continued unabated. This raises a question mark over these films as to whether they were actually shown or, if so, had any effect. In both cases, we should question the usefulness of L. Ron Hubbard's system of dealing with body Thetans.

4) Lack of Archaeological Evidence

There is no evidence of a 250 million population on this planet from 75 million years ago. Indeed, as archaeologists dig down, they find evidence of dinosaurs from this period but no evidence of 1950's type technology. If the story were true then the planet should be covered, down to a certain depth, with the concrete and metal artifacts of the thriving population of this planet of 75 million years ago. It should be possible to unearth remains of 1950's style trains at the level where fossilized skeletons of dinosaurs are found instead. That there exists none of the remains of this supposed civilization suggests that L. Ron Hubbard's view was in error.

Another niggling worry is the volcanoes where the now body thetans were nuked with H-bombs. as listed in the secret handwritten OT III document. Some of the listed volcanoes did not exist 75 million years ago.

5) Easy-to-Clear Body Thetans

Body Thetans are supposedly easy to exteriorize from the body. And as they leave, then so our own powers are supposed to increase. If that were true, then it should be easy for us to leave our bodies as well, since we are the "lead" thetan and are more powerful than the rest.

Even with all the body Thetans gone, people are not able to exteriorize. They may feel dissociated, somewhat, after telepathically talking to 2,500 invisible space-aliens inside them, but this could be a sign of mental fatigue or even deterioration, rather than the emergence of a new mental ability. Also, since the body Thetans were once people like ourselves, you would expect their ambitions to go beyond the inhabiting of flowers and butterflies.

With you as the "lead thetan", you would expect them to show more loyalty and to attempt to get their leaders to exteriorize as well. If they had been close companions for 75 million years then you would expect the friendship and commitment to their fellows to run deeper than to just leave to become a flower or butterfly.

Conclusion

I have just touched upon 5 points which cast doubt on the validity of L. Ron Hubbard's supposed recounting of events of 75 million years ago as well as the veracity of the existence of Body Thetans. I am sure there are many more avenues worthy of exploration. I will leave it to the reader to make their own mental investigations into this alleged chapter of Earth's history. After two years or more of careful thought on this subject, I have personally come to the conclusion that L. Ron Hubbard was largely in error in this matter.

Roland Rashleigh-Berry

P.S. If you would like to make a further study of this subject then you might find it useful to request a copy of the secret texts of Scientology from the Norwegian scholar, Andreas Heldal-Lund ([e-mail] )

---

The views and opinions stated within this web page are those of the author or authors which wrote them and may not reflect the views and opinions of the ISP or account user which hosts the web page. The opinions may or may not be those of the Chairman of The Skeptic Tank.

Return to The Skeptic Tank's main Index page.
E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank

[zalinda]

13. Only a very small percentage of Scientologists

even get to OT, much less OT III, so all this alien stuff (according to the "reliable" source you've quoted), would never know about it. So, what's the point? Maybe cardinals are told stuff that priests never hear about, it's moot if it's not told to the masses.

zalinda

[Ian David]

14. You completely miss the point. n/t

[zalinda]

16. No, I didn't

I have no idea where these people get this stuff, as I have NEVER heard of anything like this, and I spent 5 years almost living with ALL levels of Scientologists. There were all kinds of talk, but NOTHING even coming close to this.

My point is, is that if you talk to a certain group of people they have "talking points", if you listen to them Vince Foster was murdered by the Clintons, and Max Cleland blew up his own legs. Tell someone who ONLY listens to RW radio that we are Rove is a traitor, and they will tell you he's a hero.

If there is a group out there who have decided to discredit Scientology, they would all have their talking points. Because of the secrecy of the upper levels, they could say anything about them and unless Scientology came out and said they were wrong, who would know. And, since these talking points have been around for so long, who would believe them anyway.

And, why would it matter to you anyway if you are not in Scientology. If very few people even get to the "clam or alien" point what does it matter? If it's nonsense, then it's nonsense. If you believe in a virgin birth, I don't tear you down. All I know, is that what I learned in Scientology was very valuable, and has helped me cope with what life has thrown at me. If you don't want to be a Scientologist then don't, I'm not asking you to. All I'm saying is that we have all experienced a WTF moment when we've heard something repeated over and over again that we know is not true.

zalinda

[Ian David]

17. Yes you did.

[zalinda]

15. All I can say, is that I'm the only one

here who has actually had any connection to Scientology, since I was in it for about 6 years and on staff for about 5 of those. All the rest of the responders are quoting you stuff that I've never heard about. I'm sure with a little effort, I could find you only bad stuff about EVERY religion, and that includes Atheism, but I won't waste my time. These people here have a hate on for Scientology, and every known Scientologist that won't quit. I tried to have an intelligent conversation with them, but they keep dragging these links out as gospel.

For the record, I did not have a bad experience with Scientology, I know of no one else who did. I have seen how people are treated when they ask for their money back, 2 did while I was in Detroit. I was not hounded to come back into Scientology when I left, although I was sent letters and fliers. I didn't spend a fortune on Scientology, I joined staff and worked for my classes and auditing. I did not get far within Scientology, due to circumstances at the time. I use the principals of Scientology all the time, and it has gotten me through some very low points in my life.

zalinda

[Ian David]

18. I'm glad you got better

[beam me up scottie]

25. Dude, is that your cat that paints?

:rofl:

[catbert836]

19. Well, at least there's one person here to defend it.

Welcome! :hi:

[DoYouEverWonder]

20. First of all

Cleland did blow off his own legs. He dropped a live grenade by accident.

Second, you are not the only one around here with any connection to Scientology, so maybe you shouldn't make assumptions.

Back in the 70's I had a good friend who had been a member. At one point they decided he was a traitor and threatened his life. About a year later when they tracked him down again, they told his they were just testing him and wanted him to come back. Needless to say at that point he had had enough of their crap.

I also spent some time out in LA at their church and saw how they brainwashed some my friends who had become members. They sucked them in and since they didn't have money to pay for all the classes they were allowed to 'work' for the church in order to make up the difference. As a result between classes and work they were allowed about 4 hours a week of free time. Since they didn't have any money and lived a very, very bare existence they didn't have the money or energy to do anything during their time off except sleep. That's called brainwashing in my book.

[zalinda]

21. Maybe he did blow them off by accident

but the RW says that he did it on purpose, just ask Ann Coulter.

As for your friend in the 70's, I have no idea what happened. When I was on staff, at 2 different orgs, we never tracked down anyone. As for the treason, again, I don't know what the incident was. With saying that, let's say it did happen, you are saying that because of this incident, all Scientologists are bad or that just Scientology is bad? It's funny, but when a priest abuses a child, the Catholic church doesn't turn bad in everyones' eyes. Or, even if a person who is taken care of by Christian Scientists, dies, Christian Science is not deemed evil. So, you're saying that one person represents the whole of Scientology, and if that one person did something wrong that the whole group is therefore bad.

As for brainwashing, that's something that you DON'T see happening to you like Fox news, it is never overt. We know that when we join staff it will be difficult, as does a priest, minister or nun when they join their religious groups. It's not easy and it is not meant to be. If it were easy, all types of people would join for the free ride. Hubbard meant for Scientology to be difficult to get, because you place higher value on things that you work for, than those that are given to you. And if you don't think so, just look at someone who's worked hard for their existence and someone who never worked a day in their life. Look hard and you'll see the hard worker happier and more giving to their family. The lazy one is usually not very happy (although they'll insist they are)and are heavy drinkers or on drugs.

Yes, staff members are overworked, but they are joyful. They also feel like they have a purpose in life. They look forward and hope someday that everyone will be a Scientologist (whether they know it or not) and the world will be without wars. Conflicts will be resolved by talking it out, as Scientologists don't believe in violence. That man will respect the planet, as it's health is our responsibility. That hate will be abolished by knowledge and understanding. We worked very hard on staff, but we also had a lot of fun. I wouldn't change the experience for anything.

zalinda

[grumpy old fart]

23. Any "religion" can be helpful or harmful, it's the opiate of the masses...

after all. Opium can be helpful or harmful. Just hard for most to by into one based on $$ and aliens, but whatever floats your boat.....

[YankeyMCC]

24. Not "even atheism"

You might cite bad things done by individual or groups of atheists but "atheism" is not a religion.

[Random_Australian]

27. Atheism is not a religion, remember.

[grumpy old fart]

22. Nothing, if you enjoy living in Science Fiction land.....

I mean, dude, a religion created by a bad Science Fiction writer that has as it's central theme an alien named Xenu the galactic tyrant who stacked hundreds of billions of his frozen victims around Earth's volcanoes 75 million years ago before blowing them up with hydrogen bombs and brainwashing them with a "three-D, super colossal motion picture" for 36 days. The traumatized thetans subsequently clustered around human bodies, in effect acting as invisible spiritual parasites known as "Body Thetans" that can only be removed using advanced Scientology techniques.

[NAO]

26. It's a religion, but it doesn't glorify human sacrifice and drinking blood

and eating human flesh, like SOME religions do.

The Freethought Zone
Science and Reason Over Religion and Superstition
http://freethought.freeservers.com /

Freedom from Religion Foundation
http://www.ffrf.org /

Secular Humanism
http://www.secularhumanism.org /

Secular Web
http://www.infidels.org/index.shtml

Thomas Paine's The Age of Reason - Online
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/index.shtml

Complete Works of Robert Ingersoll - Online
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/index.shtml