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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 08:45 PM
Original message
Fossils Do Not Prove Evolution
Edited on Thu Apr-15-10 11:03 PM by proud patriot
(edited for copyright purposes-proud patriot Moderator Democratic Underground)


http://www.drdino.com/read-article.php?id=12&c=11

Written by: Bruce Malone

Fossils. The very name brings to mind images of untold ages past...dinosaurs roaming ancient swamps...slow but steady progression as simple sea life was transformed into today's complex variety. Is this an accurate reconstruction of the past or is a worldwide flood the correct explanation of the fossil record?

Fossils are the preserved evidence of past life. They are found in every part of the world, including the tops of the highest mountains. They may be as simple as a seashell which has left a permanent impression in sandstone or as grandiose as a giant plesiosaur whose bones have turned to rock after rapid burial. The fossils themselves tell us neither their age nor how they became encased in the rock layers. Rather, they must be interpreted within some view of earth history. Many people have been led to believe that the existence of fossils proves that millions of years have passed. In reality, fossils can form quite rapidly. Heat and pressure from rapid burial can accelerate the fossilization process. Geologic conditions following a worldwide flood would have exceeded anything imaginable today and must have led to the rapid fossilization of the plants and animals on a massive scale.

Fossilization can happen rapidly under the right conditions, but it is a rare event today. Yet there are mass burial sites throughout the world that are tightly packed with millions of fossils. Apparently, billions of organisms were washed together by the mass destruction of the worldwide flood, completely buried, and rapidly fossilized. These massive and extensive fossil graveyards would be the predictable result of a worldwide flood, but would hardly fit the slow accumulation model which continues to be taught as the primary explanation of the fossil record. Something dramatically different must have happened in the past to have caused the wide spread fossilization which we find all over our planet. Noah's flood would have been this event.

Geologists and paleontologists operating from a Christian worldview acknowledge the possibility that a worldwide catastrophe buried unimaginable amounts of plants and animals. This was the disaster documented in the first book of the Bible. It lasted at least one year and had reverberations which lasted for centuries. Sea creatures would have been buried first (the salinity and temperature of the oceans would have changed during the catastrophe, wiping out massive numbers of these sea creatures). Even after the flood, plant and animal extinction would have been common as many types of creatures failed to adapt to dramatically changing conditions.


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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. The stupid...
...it BURNS!!! :wow::argh::grr:
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Mojeoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. "We're trying to cure cancer here."
This was the statement of the State Supreme Kansas Court Judge, the last time someone tried to publicly teach "creationism," or "intelligent design."

This Judge was appointed by the Bush administration and he was convinced that science and the "scientific method" were
necessary for serious research to save lives.

Freeper people can teach their kids this foolishness, but those kids will not be able to compete in the real world.
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Mojeoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
32. you can have you own opinion, but don't teach kids that 2 and 2 = 5 n/t
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. the bible being pretty much a fictional work, can claim anything it wants lol nt
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't believe in fossils! n/t
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
53. No "believing" necessary...Fossils are real!
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #53
84. It was tongue in cheek! :)
But to your comment....'real' has nothing to do with it in the world of the Creationist. Denial and rewrite is the name of their game. Peace, Kim
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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. I accidently went into a Creationist Museum in Glendive, Mt last year
and I felt dumber and dirty for having gone in there. In our defense, we didn't realize that it was a scam museum until after we paid. The stupid is strong with these idiots.

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stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
42. I'm sorry, but- how does one "accidently" go into a creationist museum?
:shrug:
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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #42
55. It wasn't obviously Christian when we pulled up. It's called the Glendive
Dinosaur and Fossil Museum. It wasn't until we saw the bible versus after we entered the exhibit area that we realized it was a scam. Eastern Montana is a big fossil dig area and we thought this was just a museum about dinosaurs via science. We were wrong.
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stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. "sorry that i doubted you, i was so unfair, you were in a car crash and you lost your hair..."
man i hate when that happens! did you see Jesus riding any T-Rex's with Adam and (St)Eve?

(sorry- it's been an extremely long week and i hope you fine humor in my batty little post...)
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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. I did find the humor in it. The funniest thing in that museum was a model of Noah's Ark
taking 2 of all the animals except the dinosaurs.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. didn't need to...
dinos are good swimmers :)
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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. LOL!
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stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #59
82. Wha-???
:rofl:
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #59
95. Holy crap that explains it all!
No wonder they are extinct. lol.
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uberllama42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #56
96. Ringo FTW n/t
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Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. Good thing evolution doesn't require a single fossil to be shown to be true. n/t
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
33. Egg-zactly. Darwin developed his theory by observing living creatures
Very little fossil evidence was used to support the initial theory.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. ....
:eyes:
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Lucian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. This guy is a complete fucking idiot.
After I read the part where he introduced the great flood as an explanation, I had to quit reading.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
61. yep...
if there was a "great flood", what the hell happened to all the water?
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npk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #61
70. What happens to all the water when there is a flood in the midwest
Edited on Tue Apr-13-10 10:33 PM by npk
You know it is possible to believe that there were large floods in the past without having to believe the fables from the bible.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #70
77. waters that could cover...
the highest mountains in the world? where did the water go?
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npk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #77
79. Yes the bible fable is bullshit
Though there have been great floods through out history.
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #77
104. God pulled the plug and it all went down the drain.
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Grand Taurean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
8. The anti-logic and reason mafia strikes again.
Edited on Mon Apr-12-10 08:59 PM by Grand Taurean
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iris27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
9. Adam and Eve walked with the T-Rex in the Garden of Eden, don'cha know!
:eyes:

Fucker calls himself "Dr. Dino" with a BS in Chemical Engineering...
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Peregrine Donating Member (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Actually Dr. Dino is Kent Hovind
Who got his "PhD" from a diploma mill in Virginia and is currently in the Federal prison for tax problems. I don't know who the guy the OP was quoting, but one thing you will find is a lot of creationists who do have college degrees are usually engineers.
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iris27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
50. Ah - my mistake! I assumed since the link was drdino.com that the author
of the piece (Bruce Malone) was Dr. Dino.

I have also noticed that most degreed creationists majored in a field that included little exposure to either biology or to general liberal arts - so, engineering, physics, and math mostly. Not disparaging anyone here with expertise in those fields, of course; my husband's BS is in mechanical engineering. But I think for a certain subset of people with very insular views, those majors more than others will let them get through school without any major challenges to the things they believe.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. none are as blind as those who refuse to see
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old guy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. One of my favorite sayings.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. Oh, Lord! Not again with the flood nonsense.
The irony is that this story originated in Mesopotamia, long before the Abraham mythology was created, long before the Bible was written. The same "godless" people of Ur used the flood legend, and it likely was the result of a huge regional flood 5000-8000 years ago. Add hundreds of years of reinventing the story, hero worship and enterprising humans using history to sell their dogma and you have ... Noah.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
65. Ut-Napishtim pre-dates Noah by millennia.
http://www.piney-2.com/Gilgamesh.html

Re-telling of a much older myth.


People just are so ignorant of the beginnings and evolution of their own religions.
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amyrose2712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #11
80. Is there anything in that book NOT plagiarized? nt
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chollybocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
12. Fossils were put in earth by God, as a test of faith for fundies.

To quote God: "I keed!"

:rofl:
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Obviously they were put here by the Devil.
Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of science knows that.
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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Teach the controversy
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nickinSTL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. when I was in high school
some guy asked me if I believed in evolution - I just kind of stared at him, and said yes -

He proceeded to tell me exactly that - that fossils were put their to test "our faith" :eyes:

I was just completely baffled, floored, could not believe that someone actually BELIEVED something so stupid.

:wtf:
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KatyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #17
52. That's like someone asking if you believe in
sand or the moon or cement...it's not up for belief and I don't get why they don't understand that. But, then again, i do. They're idiots.
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nickinSTL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. I think because they take things on faith
and they can't understand the science behind evolution any more than they understand "god" - so, in their minds, science is as much based on faith as religion.

That, and, I suspect, the vast majority of them are incapable of critical thought...hence the inability to understand the "sciencey" stuff.
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iris27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. +1
Certainly those who repeatedly insist, "We're not descended from chimps!" suffer from this problem.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. They are correct in saying that.
We *aren't* descended from chimps.


They get that one right by accident, however.


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nickinSTL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. yes, but the fact that they think
that evolution says we ARE descended from chimps is an indication of how very badly they fail to understand it.
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iris27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #67
99. Yes, thank you. I thought it was pretty clear that this is what I was saying...
but I guess not. :)
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #66
90. A broken clock is right twice a day n/t
n/t
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
15. ...what the fuck happened to this country?
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
62. WTF happened?
Religion took a strong grab into politics, and just kept going from there.
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npk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #62
72. The two do go hand and hand
How many atheist do you see in public office. Even our Presidnet is a believer.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #72
76. atheists in public office...
maybe one, that is all.
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #72
94. The more accurate question is how many openly atheists do you see in office.
I find it hard to believe that when studies show:
1. about 10% of the population is atheist/agnostic and
2. the more educated you are the more likely you are to be atheist

that there aren't more atheists in office. Problem is they just can't admit it for fear of not being elected.

Not that that sucks any less, of course.
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tbredbeck Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
18. So why....
.... is this bullshit even posted here in the first place? Shouldn't somebody be responsible for deleting this stuff?

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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. I think most DUers know I'm not advocating this shit.
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stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #24
43. one point "mrbeck" didn't bring up... "posting more than 4 paragraphs of any article..."
can be alerted for copyright infringement.

Thank you for posting this stupidity! Many here saw it for what it is. Please keep the 4 paragraph rule in mind in future, though!

:hi:
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. here's a tip for you
be here a while, post a little more, before you start questioning DU policy
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. It's just for laughs. Also, it can have a medical benefit in
those people with low blood pressure who need it raised.
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RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. Funny how he talks about 'proof' when presenting an idea with literally no evidence. nt
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
21. Fossilization "is a rare event today"?
Where do they get these freaks? :freak:
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
91. Well, I haven't seen it happen
So, it must be a myth.

:sarcasm:
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
22. This tendency is generally found.
Actually the tendency for sea rock to be on the lower rock layers is complete bs. There are countless examples of land animals under sea animals. Because shallow sea level would periodically come in and out. Don't you need to know basic facts about the fossil record to have a workable theory? No apparently not :( F these people.
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ImOnlySleeping Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
86. Interglacial cycles
Every time there is glaciation (and it's happened a lot), the water comes out of the ocean.
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Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
23. This post only goes to prove that the human race is fatally flawed and doomed to extinction. nt
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Per haps a future race of bee people with their own teabaggers will look at our bones.
Edited on Mon Apr-12-10 10:43 PM by arcadian
and contemplate our demise. Alas poor Yorick...
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-17-10 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #23
101. SOON
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
27. Here's Bruce Malone's website:
http://searchforthetruth.net/contact.php

Mercury poisoning, that's got to be it...
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. Who needs mercury poisoning when you have religion?
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Zoeisright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
29. Uh, perhaps the 'flood nuts' can explain how the fossil record
matches up perfectly with the evolutionary theory?

Wow, really, really really stupid.
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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
31. The dude needs him some Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers
to shore up his leaky brain. Here's a link. http://www.pbs.org/moyers/faithandreason/perspectives1.html

Campbell points out that in mythology there are over 150 different flood stories.
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ChoppinBroccoli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
35. He's Right, You Know
Fossils don't prove that creationism is a hoax. Snow in winter proves that Global Warming is a hoax. And the fact that birds and airplanes don't fall out of the sky proves that gravity is a hoax too. Oh yeah, and the Earth is flat too.
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Cresent City Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
36. "Creation geologists (and there are many of them)"
I say they're both wrong. If they were really geologists, they would know that the rocks encasing the fossils give the age of the fossil. You can't put a governor on a radio carbon dater that maxes it out at 6000 years.

puhleez.
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14thColony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #36
100. Of course you also can't radio carbon date rocks... (nt)
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
37. This is more to heaven and earth than is in your bible preacher man!
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
38. Ugh...
"Only one interpretation of the evidence can be correct and only one interpretation of the evidence agrees with what the Bible claims is the history of our planet."

Like how bats are birds (Lev. (11:13, 19)?
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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
39. Is there a website to order some of that "magic rapid fossilizing flood water"? n.t
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gleaner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
40. Yes they do ...
You forgot to mention carbon dating of fossils which gives their age and shows that they do not all come from some catastrophic polyglot that occurred at no particular time. The earth has suffered many catastrophes throughout time and some areas did flood and burn and disappear.

These tests also show different versions of the same creatures. What happened do you think? Did they all develop separately with no relationship to each other? Kind of like claiming that flies come from spontaneous generation which has been disproven years ago?

You can believe whatever you want and you can label it however you like but it doesn't make it true. Evolution is a fact. It has been proven by research, time studies, observation and many other empiric methods. If you reread Genesis you will find that it does not actually clash with evolution. How long was a biblical day? Who knows? No one was there to measure it. The creatures came and went in the same particular order that scientists have observed as the study of evolution progressed. How do you prove creationism? Do you have tests? Was someone there to tell you about it other than through an oral history which is how the world was interpreted by people who did not have the tools or the means to study it? At best creationism is a crap shoot. Someone interpreting what they want to see from facts that have been translated many, many times and distorted in the repetition because the scriptures have been translated from obscure languages that do not exist anymore and that no one has even heard spoken for thousands of years.

I'm not an irreligious person, but I'm not your kind of religious person. I'm a Quaker. We believe that the scriptures have to grow with the world and its people. We believe that everyone holds some of the truth but no one holds all of it. You can't shove everything into a box that you have designed yourself and make it true because you want it to be. And God help our children as they try to learn and compete in world markets that respect science, math and history as fact when they do not.
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-17-10 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #40
102. I like your response
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
41. If there was a "worldwide flood"
That put fossils on mountain tops, where did all the water go? During warm periods, when all or nearly all the ice melts worldwide, sea levels have been raised on the order of a couple hundred feet. However, if there was a flood deep enough to fossilize sea creatures near the peaks of the himalayas, at say 15,000 feet, where did all the water go? There is currently not enough water on the entire planet to do this.

How did the geologic beds get laid down in a manner that their radiochemistry so precisely simulates natural decay rates for several elements at once?

Stack all the evidence up, argue it, and sooner or later, you are compelled to the conclusion that if God did this, he/she was the ultimate practical joker who did all this stuff just to confuse generations of scientists, for the sheer joy of it. To the extent I think of God, I do not think of God that way.

It is vastly easier to conclude that the Genesis authors did the best they could to offer an explanation, with very limited information.
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AlecBGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #41
98. right on
"Stack all the evidence up, argue it, and sooner or later, you are compelled to the conclusion that if God did this, he/she was the ultimate practical joker who did all this stuff just to confuse generations of scientists, for the sheer joy of it."

or to test faith.

To me there are 3 possibilities

1) Earth is 4.5 billion years old. Fossils were created at the time and in the manner modern science suggests.
2) Earth is 6,000 years old. Dinosaurs never existed. Fossils put there as a test of faith.
3) Earth is 6,000 years old. Dinosaurs existed but were wiped out by a flood.

I personally believe #1 and I have no issues with people who believe #2.

#3 is just total unadulterated BS. The science that 'proves' #3 is garbage.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
44. Rec. He says that anything other than HIS VIEW is "unchristian",
which takes in most of science today. He states that evolution is a "belief".

Who published shit like this?
OK, I clicked the link - nevermind.

mark
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
45. When you post without comment, people may think you agree with this idiocy...
You don't agree with this idiocy, do you?

Sid
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Yikes.
That would be interesting.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
chat_noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
47. Palin Claimed Dinosaurs And People Coexisted
ANCHORAGE — Soon after Sarah Palin was elected mayor of the foothill town of Wasilla, Alaska, she startled a local music teacher by insisting in casual conversation that men and dinosaurs coexisted on an Earth created 6,000 years ago -- about 65 million years after scientists say most dinosaurs became extinct -- the teacher said.

After conducting a college band and watching Palin deliver a commencement address to a small group of home-schooled students in June 1997, Wasilla resident Philip Munger said, he asked the young mayor about her religious beliefs.

Palin told him that "dinosaurs and humans walked the Earth at the same time," Munger said. When he asked her about prehistoric fossils and tracks dating back millions of years, Palin said "she had seen pictures of human footprints inside the tracks," recalled Munger, who teaches music at the University of Alaska in Anchorage and has regularly criticized Palin in recent years on his liberal political blog, called Progressive Alaska.

...

Though in her race for governor she called for faith-based "intelligent design" to be taught along with evolution in Alaska's schools, Gov. Palin has not sought to require it, state educators say.

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/sep/28/nation/na-palinreligion28






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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #47
92. Palin
Palin claimed dinosaurs and people coexisted.

In her household, that could be true.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
49. Articles like this are conclusive evidence against intelligent design.
Edited on Tue Apr-13-10 11:32 AM by backscatter712
How could God design someone who writes something like this that is so mind-bogglingly stupid?

:evilgrin:
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Terry in Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
51. Who said anything about "proving" it in the first place?
Total misunderstanding about what science does.

According to scientific method, there's no such thing as a "proof" -- merely better and better support for the hypothesis, unless and until there's data that falsifies it.

"Proving" is something that lawyers and mathematicians do, not scientists.

Same sort of misunderstanding that gives us silly statements like "it's only a theory." Theory and fact aren't opposites -- theory is the system that organizes observed facts into an explanation and predicts new ones.

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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
54. lol!
:rofl:
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MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
57. That's some of the dumbest shit I have ever heard.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
68. No more ridiculous than virgin births, talking snakes, virgins in heaven, karma, reincarnation, etc.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
69. Where the fuck is Jim Jones when we need him?
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Sheepshank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
71. Creation Geologists
can't even adequately prove there was a world wide flood as described in Genesis. They start with a premise that is simply "made up" and then move on from there to try an fit a series of unrelated findings into a preconceived hypothesis. Self fulfilling prophesies are not actually reality. I just thought I'd point that out.
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lakercub Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #71
75. In the early 19th century
before Darwin was born, creationist geologists went out to find evidence for their young earth. They figured it out all the way back then...the evidence just wasn't there. In fact there was absolutely nothing but evidence that contradicted a young Earth. We actually owe a debt of gratitude to those men for realizing the problem and beginning work on correcting it.
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npk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
73. Good enough for many of our elected officials and President Obama
To pretend that articles like this are not exactly a revelation, no pun intended. Maybe if we would stop electing so many politicians who further this kind of nonsense then we could avoid so much idiocy making it from main street bible land to policy. Oh wait I am sorry I forgot it still required that presidents and politicians pretend to agree with foolishness because the overwhelming majority of the country is delusional. Will any political leader in the future, I have given hope in then present, have the political courage to put an end to this crap. Or is power just to much to resist, and any means will justify the end.
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lakercub Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
74. He's right
as there is technically no such thing as "proof" in these fields. Of course, that's not what this idiot means. His arguments are the same ones that Hovind and Ham have been using for years and they are bullshit. Fossils, geology, biology, chemistry, anthropology, etc all argue for and old Earth complete with evolution. These nitwit cretards constantly go after Darwin, but most don't realize their beef is with a hell of a lot more scientists than Darwin. Hell, geologists had already figured out the Earth was significantly older than previously thought before Darwin was born.

I have to say it's a bummer to see the drdino website still in use...I figured it would be long gone when Hovind went to jail.

On a related note, I having been thinking about the flood lately (why, I don't know) and some staggeringly obvious questions come up...some of which have been asked a thousand times.
1. Where did the water come from and where did it go?

What...the earth was just holding it all? Enough to drown an almost 17000 ft mountain (Ararat)? Then where did that water go? Back in the Earth (which couldn't possibly hold it)? Evaporation (the heat required to evaporate that much water in a small amount of time would have been staggering...Noah and his brood would have steamed like rice). Did God just pick it up and move it? Try teaching that in a science class.

2. When the animals got off the ark how did so many herbivores even make it 15 steps? All those hungry carnivores would have been standing at a buffet line. Did God not turn on their meat-eating tendencies until they got far enough apart? Wanna teach that in science class?

3. How come animals like kangaroos are found ONLY in Australia...in fact, how the hell did they get there at all? In order to have a young Earth, plate tectonic theory gets shot to hell so there wouldn't have been a significant land bridge. And how did snakes get to the western hemisphere? Those big ass Amazon anacondas made their way over the land bridge at the Bering Strait? Really? Seems like it might have a been a little chilly even 4k years ago for ANY snakes to go that way.

4. The entire population of the Earth is descended from Noah's three boys and their wives...uh-huh. Further..based on a 6000 year old Earth, the flood would have been somewhere between 2500-2300 BC...so 6 people became over 6.5 billion people in 4500 years. I would say that's dubious...at best.

5. The hell with it.

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AnArmyVeteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
78. For a person to believe that nonsense takes a lot of effort to run from the truth and reality.
The guy must be exhausted being in such denial and seeing evidence to the contrary of everything he believes all around him. This is just another danger of religion. Can you imagine if our country was in the hands of people like him and Palin? Our country would be taken back 1500 years. I truly hope there aren't enough ignorant people out there who could so easily duped and elect a total dunce...
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-17-10 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #78
103. Did you forget about Bush jr??
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amyrose2712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 05:19 AM
Response to Original message
81. Oye vey maria. nt
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era veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
83. What became of my unicorn?
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #83
85. The horn turned to fairy dust and now all you have is a pony fossil!
Darn it all!
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
87. www.drdino? Does he make house calls for pet dinosaurs?
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
88. arcadian,
Please be aware that our rules concerning copyrighted material require that you limit copy to four paragraphs with a link to the source.

Thanks,

cbayer
DU Moderator
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
89. Of course, they don't "prove" it
You can't prove a theory. You can only continue to test it. Darwin's theory has been tested by thousands of observations of the natural world. It's passed every test.

I'm a practicing Christian. The Bible is a wonderful book, but it's a crappy natural history text book.

The sort of "God sat down and created everything Himself" thinking makes God look pretty unimaginative, imho.
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LibertyLover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
93. When I was in high school, back before Lucy and skull 1470 - you know
the Dark Ages - a friend of mine started going to an Assemblies of God church. One day she came up to me and asked if I had any good information on evolution because her adult Bible class was going to be studying it that Sunday. I gave her several National Geographics we had with stories on the Leakeys and their finds. She then asked if I'd go with her to the class. I agreed, swatted up on my evolutionary theory and prepared to have fun. The class was taught by the Young Adult Minister, a smarmy fellow quite full of himself and his holiness. Of course evolution was pooh-poohed and inveighed against in the strongest possible terms. Then we were asked who believed in evolution. My friend and I were the only ones who raised our hands. The minister was not happy and asked how we could disbelieve THE BIBLE. I wasn't a big believer in the accuracy of the Bible, which I told him. I will never forget the look on the guy's face when I told him I did not accept the Bible as the inerrant word of God, because I knew of too many inaccuracies and downright errors in it.

I went back to the church with my friend several times over the next two years and actually spoke in tongues. The Young Adult minister came up to me at one point and said that since I had obviously received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, I must surely now accept the Bible as God's Word. I told him no I didn't, and that furthermore I was still an "evolutionist". It simply didn't compute for him - how on one hand I was speaking in tongues, an outward sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and didn't believe the Bible and accepted evolution as a fact.

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jeepnstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
97. People who preach strict creationalism...
are the same folks who enjoy trying to stuff God into a box. Once you accept that He can do pretty much anything he pleases and doesn't really have to explain His actions to anyone it gets much easier to deal with science. I get a kick out of preachers who try to impose rules on God's game plan.
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Beringia Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
105. Some people hold onto their beliefs no matter what the evidence
However I do feel that there is magic and spirit and God involved in evolution, not just mechanical processes.
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
106. I've been ignoring this thread for a while...
...but every time it gets kicked up to the top of the forum, I can't help but think: "Fossils don't prove evolution. People prove evolution!"
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