|
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend Bookmark this thread |
This topic is archived. |
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology |
ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 12:48 PM Original message |
Omniscient entities, such as some gods, are incapable of forming new thoughts or new decisions. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 12:53 PM Response to Original message |
1. You presume that God exists in time |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
RandomThoughts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 12:56 PM Response to Reply #1 |
4. Just because someone knows what you will choose, does not mean you did not have a choice. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 01:06 PM Response to Reply #4 |
10. You presume it was free will |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
RandomThoughts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 01:18 PM Response to Reply #10 |
12. Proof is what you choose to believe. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 03:35 PM Response to Reply #12 |
18. The difference here is key |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
RandomThoughts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 02:20 AM Response to Reply #18 |
26. God would not need to script everything to get an effect, so why would he? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 08:01 AM Response to Reply #26 |
28. Ironically, you are the one limiting this god idea |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
damntexdem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 02:47 PM Response to Reply #10 |
17. There's no proof that free will exists, but ... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
damntexdem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 02:45 PM Response to Reply #4 |
16. Yeah, limitations like logic. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Deep13 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 12:56 PM Response to Reply #1 |
5. Just the opposite. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 01:02 PM Response to Reply #5 |
9. Except during creation |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Deep13 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 01:17 PM Response to Reply #9 |
11. I don't think so. God still knows what he will do... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 01:32 PM Response to Reply #11 |
14. Stuck in time |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 03:39 PM Response to Reply #14 |
19. But we all ARE on the highway |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 07:48 AM Response to Reply #19 |
27. Yes, but he is not |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 08:03 AM Response to Reply #27 |
29. But we are the ones with supposed free will, so it matters how WE perceive time, not how he does. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 08:19 AM Response to Reply #29 |
31. I agree |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 08:37 AM Response to Reply #31 |
33. Funnily enough I'm still arguing both "Con" sides and still getting roundly abused for it |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 08:55 AM Response to Reply #33 |
36. The founder of MADD quit |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 09:26 AM Response to Reply #36 |
40. Much agreement - risk and harm are the issues, but it has become |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 09:33 AM Response to Reply #40 |
42. Performance base standards |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 12:56 PM Response to Reply #1 |
6. I was going to mention time, but I was afraid of adding additional confusion, |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
RandomThoughts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 12:53 PM Response to Original message |
2. An all Powerful Omnipotent entity, |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 12:54 PM Response to Original message |
3. I think you are talking mnore about omniscience, but the point stands |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 12:58 PM Response to Reply #3 |
7. You are right, I should go back and change my wording to avoid confusion. nt |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Deep13 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 01:00 PM Response to Original message |
8. Actually, the god of the Pentateuch acts more like a pagan diety... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Newest Reality (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 01:23 PM Response to Original message |
13. That which exists, to my knowledge |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
damntexdem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 02:43 PM Response to Original message |
15. It would appear to be a really, really boring existence. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 05:36 PM Response to Original message |
20. Basically, ANY characteristics that are assigned to a god... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
laconicsax (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 06:36 PM Response to Reply #20 |
21. Only if you can think beyond the childish mindsets that spawned them. n/t |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 07:37 PM Response to Reply #21 |
23. Or just come up with a deep-sounding yet ultimately meaningless "grown-up" answer. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
laconicsax (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 08:07 PM Response to Reply #23 |
24. I think that expression simply speaks to people's ability to contradict themselves mid-sentence. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
humblebum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 08:33 AM Response to Reply #20 |
32. Even as absurd as, "If I can't see it, hear it, smell it, taste it ,or touch it, |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 09:42 AM Response to Reply #32 |
44. That would be a pretty absurd argument. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
humblebum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 10:17 AM Response to Reply #44 |
47. Actually, it's called 'empiricism' and many an argument has |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 11:09 AM Response to Reply #47 |
49. No, that would be your strawman version of empiricism. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
humblebum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 11:18 AM Response to Reply #49 |
52. Actually, that is the exact definition. If there are other recognized |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 11:23 AM Response to Reply #52 |
53. No, it's your strawman definition. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
humblebum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 11:35 AM Response to Reply #53 |
54. Um, I believe you are the one who is attempting to say |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
jdp349 (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 11:13 AM Response to Reply #47 |
50. I think you misunderstand |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
humblebum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 11:14 AM Response to Reply #50 |
51. Some have your POV, some do not. You are also defining |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Jim__ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-27-10 06:45 PM Response to Original message |
22. Have you read Eriugena? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 08:06 AM Response to Reply #22 |
30. Whihc is actually a good starting point for ineffability |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Jim__ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 08:42 AM Response to Reply #30 |
34. Existence itself may be ineffable. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 08:53 AM Response to Reply #34 |
35. So how do we say anything about God? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Jim__ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 08:58 AM Response to Reply #35 |
37. Eriugena had a lot to say. - n/t |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 09:22 AM Response to Reply #37 |
39. And how do we know it was or is true |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Jim__ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 09:34 AM Response to Reply #39 |
43. Eriugena reasoned to the conclusion that we cannot know about god. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 09:51 AM Response to Reply #43 |
45. This isn't really a research issue |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Jim__ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 10:11 AM Response to Reply #45 |
46. I include reading under research, and by read and research I mean validate what you've read. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
uberllama42 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 01:31 AM Response to Original message |
25. Omniscience and omnipotence are incoherent concepts |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 09:14 AM Response to Original message |
38. A: "Whoa! If I talk this way, I produce nonsensical statements and contradictions!" |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 09:27 AM Response to Reply #38 |
41. So are you saying that only nobelievers claim an omniscient god? Really? NT |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-28-10 10:20 AM Response to Reply #38 |
48. My OP was not created to call you out, my OP was just meant to be |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Thu Oct 17th 2024, 09:50 PM Response to Original message |
Advertisements [?] |
Top |
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology |
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators
Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.
Home | Discussion Forums | Journals | Store | Donate
About DU | Contact Us | Privacy Policy
Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.
© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC