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Meldread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 08:24 PM
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God: The Essence of Everything
This is the first draft of my Essay/Theses of "God: The Essence of Everything". Please provide constructive criticism, thoughts, opinions and ideas. I am interested in a lively discussion and debate.
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From the moment our brains evolved the ability of questioning the world around us and our place in it we have had gods. It does not matter where you go or what you do, the essence of something more than ourselves - an existence greater than ourselves - is prevalent from the dawn of our first human thoughts. From tribe like peoples to modern civilizations this belief is still prevalent. Why? Why is something we cannot understand so rooted within us? More importantly how and why did so many cultures, separated by language barriers and distance develop this belief that there is something more? The spirits? The gods? Why? What makes us - what drives us - to learn and understand our greater existence? Or is it all an illusion? Do other animals seek out this greater existence? If not, then why not? Why is it so important to us and yet seemingly unimportant to a domesticated animal? What has made us so different and why are we driven by this need - a never ending hunger and thirst for understanding?

This thirst for understanding manifests itself all around us. Scientists seek to understand the world, the religious among them seek to understand how their version of 'god' or the 'greater existence' put everything together and what makes it work. The belief that some how by picking everything apart they will find themselves a little closer to the answer, and yet as always the more they discover the more they realize how little they truly know.

I am not like most people. This is a blessing and a curse. I am driven by a hunger - a need to understand and comprehend. Most people look at a religion, often the one they grew up with, and accept it as their own. They may make slight modifications to it so it adjusts to their needs, but ultimately the over all arching belief is the same. Yet that is too simplistic. It is settling for something that is inferior.

For example, one might believe as many Judio-Christians do, that the world was created in seven days and that humanity was formed in the image of God. That the world is only a few thousand years old. Yet, all the science in the world disproves this belief. Many Christians doubt it and have taken on the scientific belief, looking at the old as a metaphor. Still, there are those that cling to that thought and I must question it.

First of all, what is God? Where is God? What does he do? Is he even a he? Does he think like we do? If he created the world or at least played a major part in its creation then why do we not see more direct evidence of his existence? Wouldn't there be some big giant neon-sign in the sky saying "GOD WAS HERE"?

There are too many questions to answer. Too many variables and possibilities. However, if one takes the belief that God created everything as many religions do then we cannot obviously be made in his image. We cannot create planets, stars; I have no knowledge of how to make another Jupiter or Saturn. Yet, simple logic dictates that if God made these things he must be far greater than ourselves. In fact it even throws his entire identity into question.

Many religions around the world try and humanize their representation of god or their various gods. The Greek and Roman Gods of old for example all had personalities and duties. It was somewhat like an on going drama of the heavens. The Judio-Christian God is more abstract and detached. It (often referred to as a male) has a set of things it wants you to do, it has outlined them in 10 Commandments and some believe there will be punishment to anyone who fails to please this entity.

Yet even in the Judio-Christian version of God one can see him exhibit a personality. He has clear likes and dislikes. He is sometimes consistent and sometimes he is not. In the representation of him he appears to be almost a super powerful human trying his best to be abstract and transparent, but to anyone who is willing to scrutinize the belief he fails at his abstractness and transparency.

This, for me, is not satisfactory. It seems ludicrous to believe that a powerful entity that created everything even thinks on a remotely human level. It would be as if someone claimed that ants think on the same level as we do, and to a being such as god we would be even smaller and less significant than ants. Who are you, a single person, compared to a being that created the very universe - something that we struggle constantly to understand? Is it not self righteous and egotistical to put yourself on the same level as a supposed creator of everything?

Yet, can humanity be wrong? Is there a God? Is there something greater than ourselves out there? If we are wrong then why do we feel so strongly that there is something more? What has driven humanity to not only believe but also seek out this entity?

To those questions, I can only speculate. If there is a God one has to be willing to admit that it will be forever out of their understanding. At best, we may only learn to understand certain aspects. At worst, we will forever be left in the dark. Our minds are not built to comprehend something so magnificent and powerful - it is as if we are ants trying to comprehend and think on a human level.

I must speculate on the actual existence of the deity itself. In our daily lives, we do not see great miracles being preformed. We don't look up into the night sky and see the stars magically re-arrange like a mystical wegie board spelling out the deities latest commandments. We are left alone to figure out things for ourselves. Perhaps the deity is simply disinterested in us. Perhaps it simply looks upon us as we look upon ants. It is a possibility.

Another possibility is that the deity itself does not exist at all. It is something that we wish to be true. It is something that we desperately grasp toward to make our meaningless lives somehow meaningful. That, too, is a possibility.

It is also possible that at one time there was an all-powerful being that created everything, but like all living things, it ultimately died thus creating everything that we see and leaving us all alone. Perhaps in its death it created the big bang, started time itself and everything that has happened since is simply an echo of the final moments of the deity.

Or perhaps a greater power, a greater existence, does indeed exist. Perhaps it is abstract and does not have cohesive thoughts as we do. It does not see time and space as we do. In fact it has seen everything and nothing, it is everything and nothing. It flutters in and out of existence - it is existence and non-existence. It is the essence of everything from the rocks on planet Earth, to the dust storms on Mars, to the swirling clouds of Jupiter, on into deep space and beyond, it is every particle of every atom, it is our thoughts, our dreams, our aspirations. Perhaps, we are God and in trying to understand God - the essence of everything - we struggle to understand ourselves.

It is my opinion that if there is a God, if there is a greater existence beyond ourselves, then it must be the latter version. It seems almost elegant and beautiful. It would be a realization that everything is a part of something greater and that humanity's mission to understand 'God' will ultimately lead to the understanding of ourselves. That every thing we do, that every step we make, we draw ourselves closer and closer to that understanding. The belief that the universe and the world we know, including ourselves, is simply a greater entity struggling to understand itself. As if its very own mind is so powerful and immense that it had to fragment into billions and billions of other minds - in our universe and perhaps even others (if others exist) - to struggle to understand itself. The belief that even the tiniest of particles are struggling in their own way to understand itself.

If this belief holds true then perhaps humanity should stop looking outwardly for 'God' and instead begin looking inwardly. For if the deity exists in this fashion the only logical thing to do is look to yourself. To understand yourself and then once you understand yourself set out to understand others. You may never reach the goal of understanding the deity, but perhaps it will draw you a little closer and paint the clearest picture possible.

If this belief is true then it opens up many possibilities and opens the door to many questions. It is fascinating to consider, even if it may turn out to be incorrect.
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 08:29 PM
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1. I consider it. recomended. n/t.
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FtWayneBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 08:33 PM
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2. Interesting conjecture, that god dies in the big bang.
That is similar to my beleif system, which is under constuction. Only I take it that god didn't totally die, just divided up the energy of it's (I think of god as an it) total being into everthing that exists now. So god exists in all things. Taking this a step further, some scientists speculate that the universe is cyclical, with it collapsing into big crunches in between the big bangs in an eons-long never ending (and never beginning?) cycle. My belief is that the experience of all things comes together and is reincarnated into the next cycle. So only in the split second when the crunch is ending and the next bang is beginning does God (big G) exist in a form of infinite power, matter, and wisdom.
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Meldread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 09:05 PM
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5. That is interesting.
It is also very similar to what I am saying. However, it seems that the current theory of the universe is that it is not only still expanding, but it's speeding up.

Taking into account that gravity is the weakest of the natural forces, one might assume that gravity lost the battle to cause the crunch and that the universe will just keep on expanding forever until everything in it dies.

To illustrate gravity as the weakest force take another force: magnetism. Gravity is what keeps the Planets revolving around the sun, it's what keeps us on the ground here on Earth, yet take a normal refrigerator magnet and a paper clip. If you put the paper clip on the table and then hover the magnet over it, the paper clip easily "fly's up" toward the magnet. In essence a normal everyday refrigerator magnet is stronger than the Earths gravity. (It boggles the mind and it is one of those strange things that science is trying to figure out.)
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 08:33 PM
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3. If there is a "GOD"...our job is to go find him/her as we can become GODs
In order to do that...we should decide where to look...

We now know God's home is not on Mars or any other planet...nor a moon.

Other Stars? Other galaxies? Perhaps. We must investigate by looking and if not in this Universe, the next one? Or the Next?

To accomplish this we need Peace on Earth...we need a sustainable Planet. We need to focus...Get our Plans drawn up right...

But can we do it given todays Social/pol Climate? Its anyones guess.

Not every species will make it to Gods Realm...only the smart ones who can conquer Fear and Ignorance...

Come, we go look for the peeps who made BLACK HOLES, Neutron Stars, Quasars, Nebulas, White Dwarfs, etc
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Meldread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Hrm.
Well I think it would be safe to say that if there is a God that it doesn't exist (at least not physically) in this universe. In fact I believe it would be reasonable to conclude that such a powerful entity (something with the ability to create the universe) would therefore have to exist outside of it. (You can't create something you exist within.)

I think it would also be reasonable to conclude that if there is some greater mystical deity out there that it does not exist in a way that we can realize or comprehend. It would defy our senses. Such an entity would have to, by its very nature, exist outside of time and space but at the same time (at least in part) exist within time and space. Perhaps hovering in-between?

I think the belief that God *is* everything. Literally everything. Would make some amount of sense in the reason humans (intelligent creatures in our own right) seek out something that we can't possibly hope to perceive. It would also stand to reason that is why so many times this greater entity that so many seem to be able to sense is humanized. How could we imagine something greater than ourselves? Especially something that we cannot see or touch. The result is humanization.

It would also stand to reason, that *if* god is everything then the only way to truly have *any* understanding of the being would be first to try and understand yourself and then to try and understand others. It could be argued that such an exercise would ultimately lead to peace on Earth and some of the things you suggested.

Oddly enough, it seems to be a common theme among many religions. It actually seems to be the bedrock and foundation of them, and it makes me question why so many religions who are separated by time periods, long distances, and language barriers -- why and how did they develop? Were those beliefs somehow truly "divinely" inspired (although certainly not in the same sense that most religious people interpret them to be)? The belief of "love thy neighbor" is prevalent in most if not all world wide religions. If the belief "love thy neighbor" isn't present on some level then it seeks to create some type of "harmony" between people and the universe.

Those are interesting questions.


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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. We Humans are like the sperms traveling the Fallopian Tube...
we know not where we go...only instinct to guide us....perhaps some pheromones from the EGG.

Conciousness only comes after aging to a level about 2 to 4 years old, maturity another dozen years or so.

We have yet to journey the Cosmic Tube to our EGG out there. Will we make it?? Odds terribly against us...go ask you dead brothers and sisters who never made it to the eggs door that you slammed shut...

I suspect there are clouds and clouds of Universes out there and even larger more complex structures than we can imagine....

If such a place exists...I think the God we looking for...might be there....

Our job/goal, is to someday, far far away, reach this place. If we be so fortunate and intelligent...many other species will accompany us...the foods we grow, the animals and birds we bring, etc etc

We will build SPACE ARKS to go Inter Galatic then INTER UNIVERSE..

Only in that way, we get to escape extinction...we and all the friends/plants we drag along....can extend our species life span...

Thats is GODs Message. Want to live Forever? Try PEACE
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The River Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-05 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. You might want to look at this
I understand when you say:
"I am driven by a hunger - a need to understand and comprehend."

The following is part of a long but very worthwhile read IF...
you are as driven as you seem... ;-)>

"From the Big Bang (15 billion years ago) "which was really the roaring laughter of God voluntarily getting lost for the millionth time" through prepersonal "Eden" and personal Ego to transpersonal/nondual Enlightenment, evolution is for Wilber a lila (dance) of the "unfolding" of "Spirit" through "increasingly more conscious forms of Spirit's own self actualization and return to itself." Evolution is "Spirit-in-action" or "God in the making." In the beginning, Spirit in sport "forgets itself and empties itself into creation." In line with Schelling, creation for Wilber is a "falling-away" or "maximum self-alienation" of Spirit, and nature is "slumbering Spirit," mind is "self conscious Spirit" and nondual enlightenment is "realized Spirit." Thus the "direction" of evolution is "from nature to humanity to divinity; from subconsciousness to self-consciousness to superconsciousness; from prepersonal to personal to transpersonal; from id to ego to god." Wilber poetically demarcates his tripartite evolutionary scheme in an axiom: "Nature is unconscious imperfection, God is conscious perfection but poor humanity is conscious imperfection." As humans are "up from beasts and not yet gods" there has never been " a Golden Age of real Heaven on earth" or a "superconscious Eden" in our "actual historic past."

http://www.integralworld.net/rev/rev_ashok2.html

Print it out. Read it every day. The Truth of our "reality"
really is as profoundly simple as all the great sages say it is;
We ARE God, manifest.
It is your true Self that feeds your hunger.
It is Spirit seeking Itself
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ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-05 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
8. Nice essay.
My own thoughts on a few sections, though I agree with opihimoimoi's idea of both searching for God, while we try to survive as a species. Kind of like Star Trek. :)

I think all primitive cultures have had religions with much similarities. The invention of religion and God or gods was a probably a projection of the needs and desires of primitive man to answer the questions of our creation, for protection against the harshness of life, to provide for an afterlife. These are universal questions. God was created in man’s image, a fatherly being that listened to his/her prayers.

With the Age of Reason and Scientific Method, the ideas of a personal God or gods were challenged, and the idea of God has been retreating ever since.

Regarding other animals, they don’t have the gift of reason that we have, so they have no reason to question with, but they are instinctively part of nature.

Reason or not, I think nature is all that there is. Some prefer to see nature as God, and that is fine too. We each have our own ways to perceive nature and the universe, whether there is a god force involved or it simply exists by itself without any need for a god.

One thing is clear, that we cannot be apart from nature and survive. But it is more than survival, we cannot be spiritually whole without nature, no matter how much we try sometimes. Our ancestors who had nature based religions were much more in harmony with their environment, closer to our final needs in the way of a religion, than the those who invented monotheism. I guess the modern day version of the old nature based religions might be considered deep ecology, not a religion really.
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