People with no scientific training are telling scientists what to teach

[GOPBasher]

in a SCIENCE class. Would they accept scientists telling them what to teach in seminary school? I'd honestly love to see that.

I'm a science teacher. I'm also a Christian. If I ever teach Sunday school, I'll tell the kids all the things I believe about how God created the universe. However, when I teach science class, I prefer not to ignore the separation of church and state; I will teach only science in science class.

[Windy]

1. You can believe that evolution is how life began

and STILL believe that God created the Universe!!!

[TheFriar]

3. let's not believe anything

Let's accept empirical evidence and develop paradigms. I replace "I believe" with "I strongly suspect the evidence shows".

[GOPBasher]

4. I know. I don't see anything contradictory about saying that

evolution is God's way of creating us. Besides, I personally believe in intelligent design, but that doesn't mean I should teach it in a science class. I should teach that in Sunday school.

[Jim Bob]

8. Evolution is how life began???

How does the theory of evolution explain how life began? In fact, how does science explain how one moment, there was no life, and the next moment, there was life? I don't think the theory of evolution or science in general has any notion of how this could happen.

[BurtWorm]

9. You're right. The Theory of Evolution says nothing about how life began.

It concerns itself with how organisms came to be in the form they're in now.

There are other theories about how organic matter came to be, but I don't know if any has the authority that Evolution does over its domain.

[Bill McBlueState]

10. magic

It's magic, Jim Bob. Magic by a creepy old dude in a pointy hat. Is that the answer you were looking for? It's certainly easier to believe in Old Man McPointyHat than it is to educate yourself.

[NMMNG]

11. Just because we don't fully understand it now

And do not have all the answers yet, does not mean they are not out there waiting to be discovered/discerned. As recently as a few centuries ago we had no true idea why people fell ill, yet that did not mean that it was due to evil spirits as people formerly thought.

Currently being inadequately informed is no reason to just throw up our hands and say "obviously some magic spirit did it".

[GOPBasher]

12. I believe God created this life.

Does that mean science classrooms are supposed to teach that? They're supposed to teach my religious beliefs? In science class, why don't they just say, "Scientist really don't know much about how life began in the first place -- just few theories here and there, but nothing with a lot of evidence." They can just leave it at that. Let students come to their own conclusions. I believe God did it. Many others would. But we're not supposed to teach my or anyone else's religious beliefs in a science class.

[hobbit709]

2. If you really truly believe-

you don't need no stinking science. Think these people would be willing to live without the benefits of science?-NOT!

[GOPBasher]

5. Exactly and exactly!

Both of your points hit the nail right on the head. I'd love to tell some of these fundamentalist preachers, "Okay, you don't believe in science? Then stop driving your car, using your computer, taking medicine when you're sick, etc."

[NAO]

6. The Republican War on Science (book), With God on Their Side (book)

*****

Two excellent, well researched books have come out recently on this disturbing phenomena:

The Republican War on Science
by Chris Mooney

With God on Their Side: How Christian Fundamentalists Trampled Science, Policy, and Democracy in George W. Bush's White House
by Esther Kaplan

*****

The Republican War on Science
by Chris Mooney

From Publishers Weekly
Starred Review. Does the Bush administration ignore or deny mainstream research to please its conservative base? Have business groups and certain religious lobbies helped it do so? Does Bush-era treatment of scientists differ from that of Clinton, George H.W. Bush and Reagan? Has a Republican Congress passed laws designed to disable clean air and water efforts, and has it dismantled safeguards, such as the Congressional Office of Technology Assessment, meant to give legislators unbiased advice? Mooney's passionate, thoroughly researched volume answers these questions with an urgent "yes." A former American Prospect writer who is making his book debut, Mooney uses interviews and old-fashioned document-digging to explain how, over two decades, right-wing politicians built institutions designed to discredit working scientists; how some energy companies have allied themselves with powerful Republicans (such as Sen. James Inhofe of Oklahoma) to block or reverse U.S. steps to curb global warming; and how the present administration defies expert consensus on climate change, on mercury pollution, even on how to read statistics. Mooney tracks Bush White House efforts to spread misinformation about stem cells; the work of religious right regulators like Dr. David Hager (formerly on the FDA's Reproductive Health Drugs advisory committee) in restricting access to birth control; and the attempts of the Discovery Institute (and other think tanks linked to the Bush base) to fight the teaching of evolution. In the past five years, Mooney documents, many formerly apolitical physicists, biologists and doctors have come to believe there is a "pattern" of science abuse under Bush, a push back against the methods of science itself. Conservatives may react with indignation; liberals, moderates and working scientists will find few surprises,but Mooney's very readable, and understandably partisan, volume is the first to put the whole story, thoroughly documented, in one place.

*****

With God on Their Side: How Christian Fundamentalists Trampled Science, Policy, and Democracy in George W. Bush's White House
by Esther Kaplan

From Publishers Weekly
This well-written, fast-paced and engaging book scores points for style, though its decidedly liberal slant will most appeal to readers who already share Kaplan’s view that George W. Bush’s cozy relations with evangelical Christian activists represents a grave threat to the future of America. Kaplan, a journalist and former editor at The Nation, rehearses how Bush’s evangelical Christian faith has dictated his decisions on international issues, such as his determination to invade Iraq, and domestic ones, including his anti-abortion stance, promotion of abstinence, silence on the AIDS epidemic and conservative court appointments. The book is best when Kaplan discusses the "holy war" mentality that she feels is prevalent in the Bush administration, whether in Attorney General John Ashcroft’s stark approach to the war on terror or Karl Rove’s machinations in promoting judicial appointees who would be accepted by both corporate and religious conservatives. Kaplan writes vividly of the people involved and offers memorable human-interest stories, such as a day in the life of two Tennessee abstinence activists. But in many places, she veers away from her focus on the Bush administration to castigate the "Religious Right" more generally. She also fails to appreciate the ideological nuances of American evangelicalism. For example, she dismisses Intelligent Design Theory as "pseudoscience" and incorrectly claims that its proponents believe the earth is only a few thousand years old, thus conflating it with biblical creationism.

*****

and a few timeless excerpts from Robert G. Ingersoll


Some Mistakes Of Moses
by Robert G. Ingersoll
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/some_mistakes_of_moses.html

It is also my desire to free the schools. When a professor in
a college finds a fact, he should make it known, even if it is
inconsistent with something Moses said. Public opinion must not
compel the professor to hide a fact, and, "like the base Indian,
throw the pearl away." With the single exception of Cornell, there
is not a college in the United States where truth has ever been a
welcome guest. The moment one of the teachers denies the
inspiration of the Bible, he is discharged. If he discovers a fact
inconsistent with that book, so much the worse for the fact, and
especially for the discoverer of the fact. He must not corrupt the
minds of his pupils with demonstrations. He must beware of every
truth that cannot, in some way be made to harmonize with the
superstitions of the Jews. Science has nothing in common with
religion. Facts and miracles never did, and never will agree. They
are not in the least related. They are deadly foes. What has
religion to do with facts? Nothing. Can there be Methodist
mathematics, Catholic astronomy, Presbyterian geology, Baptist
biology, or Episcopal botany? Why, then, should a sectarian college
exist? Only that which somebody knows should be taught in our
schools. We should not collect taxes to pay people for guessing.
The common school is the bread of life for the people, and it
should not be touched by the withering hand of superstition.

Our country will never be filled with great institutions of
learning until there is an absolute divorce between Church and
School. As long as the mutilated records of a barbarous people are
placed by priest and professor above the reason of mankind, we
shall reap but little benefit from church or school.

Instead of dismissing professors for finding something out,
let us rather discharge those who do not. Let each teacher
understand that investigation is not dangerous for him; that his
bread is safe, no matter how much truth he may discover, and that
his salary will not be reduced, simply because he finds that the
ancient Jews did not know the entire history of the world.

Besides, it is not fair to make the Catholic support a
Protestant school, nor is it just to collect taxes frown infidels
and atheists to support schools in which any system of religion is
taught.

The sciences are not sectarian. People do not persecute each
other on account of disagreements in mathematics. Families are not
divided about botany, and astronomy does not even tend to make a
man hate his father and mother. It is what people do not know, that
they persecute each other about. Science will bring, not a sword'
but peace.

Just as long as religion has control of the schools, science
will be an outcast. Let us free our institutions of learning. Let
us dedicate them to the science of eternal truth. Let us tell every
teacher to ascertain all the facts he can -- to give us light, to
follow Nature, no matter where she leads; to be infinitely true to
himself and us; to feel that he is without a chain, except the
obligation to be honest; that he is bound by no books, by no creed,
neither by the sayings of the dead nor of the living; that he is
asked to look with his own eyes, to reason for himself without
fear, to investigate in every possible direction, and to bring us
the fruit of all his work.

*****

Heretics And Heresies
by Robert G. Ingersoll
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/heretics_and_hericies.html

Give any orthodox church the power, and to-day they would punish heresy with whip, and chain, and fire. As long as a church deems a certain belief essential to salvation, just so long it will kill and burn if it has the power. Why should the church pity a man whom her God hates? Why should she show mercy to a kind and noble heretic whom her God will burn in eternal fire? Why should a Christian be better than his God? It is impossible for the imagination to conceive of a greater atrocity than has been perpetrated by the church. Every nerve in the human body capable of pain has been sought out and touched.

Let it be remembered that all churches have persecuted heretics to the fullest extent of their power. Toleration has increased only when and where the power of the church has diminished. From Augustine until now the spirit of the Christians has remained the same. There has been the same intolerance, the same undying hatred of all who think for themselves, and the same determination to crush out of the human brain all knowledge inconsistent with an ignorant creed.

According to the theologians, God, the Father of us all, wrote a letter to his children. The children have always differed somewhat as to the meaning of this letter. In consequence of these honest differences, these brothers began to cut out each other's hearts. In every land, where this letter from God has been read, the children to whom and for whom it was written have been filled with hatred and malice. They have imprisoned and murdered each other, and the wives and children of each other. In the name of God every possible crime has been committed, every conceivable outrage has been perpetrated. Brave men, tender and loving women, beautiful girls, and prattling babes have been exterminated in the name of Jesus Christ. For more than fifty generations the church has carried the black flag. Her vengeance has been measured only by her power. During all these years of infamy no heretic has ever been forgiven. With the heart of a fiend she has hated; with the clutch of avarice she has grasped; with the jaws of a dragon she has devoured; pitiless as famine, merciless as fire, with the conscience of a serpent: such is the history of the Church of God.

[GOPBasher]

7. Thanks for posting those!

I'll have to check those books out. :-)