I was wondering if anyone else had these thoughts that I put here.

[county worker]

I was asking myself if there is a spiritual or cosmic reason why our country, our people are going through what we are now going through.

When I look around at the political and social scene I see the wealthy who want to remain wealthy and want to become even more wealthy. I see the corporations that are the means for the wealthy to be wealthy and the corporations have power and want even more power to achieve that end.

I see some in the middle class like me who are making it but who could lose it all any day do to circumstances of the times we live in. I see others who have lost a great deal of material wealth, their homes, their savings and their means of making a living.

Then there are those who never have overcome poverty. I see the different life experiences that each generation goes through now, the idea that our children will not have it as good as we have.

And I see the uncaring attitudes of the cat food commission and the tea party folks concerning those who need help from the government.

We know what the answer to the problems are that most of us face. Even if we disagree on whether the problems should be solved at all we know how they could be solved. Why the disagreement? Why the suffering? Why the imbalance of wealth? Why are we not able to do anything about it? Why do the lies hold more sway over the truth?

What lessons are we supposed to learn by all of this?

[zipplewrath]

1. Faith over reason

Not just a religious faith, but the general concept that we "know how it should be" and therefor ignore how it really is. Some times you hear ideas called "common sense". Generally that means someone doesn't really know anything, but the have convinced themselves that they do. In some cases it is flawed deductive reasoning. "We had a program that solved that problem by giving them housing. So that proves that housing is the solution for everyone". And of course there is the "flawed memory" problem. Most often expressed in the concept of the "good ole days". That somehow things used to work better and that is proof that the way we used to do it is better and what we are doing now is worse. Or course it A) wasn't better and B) that isn't how it used to work anyway.

We don't make arguments and defend them anymore. We take positions and merely assert their truth.

[Ozymanithrax]

2. That there is no spiritual or cosmic reason this is happening... n/t

[T Wolf]

3. Correct. It is just bad people in power doing bad things. Nothing more complicated than that. nt

[Ozymanithrax]

7. Actually, it is more complicated than that.

It is the dynamics of a group of social animals at work.

I see no reason why God, if it or they exist, should manipulate all of time and the lives of those bad people in power by making them bad to teach lessons to a few. If it or they exist (God) and is a kind an benevolent being or beings, why would it/they cause millions to live in poverty and anguish simply to teach a lesson. I don't think God punished New Orleans because there were gay people there. I don't think God punished Pakistan with floods because they are Muslims.

I mean, if we are just fish in a Deity's gold fish bowl, why not feed us, keep our water clean, and kill the leaders who overstep their bounds?

If we learn to be a better people, who work together to improve the lives of everyone, and become more rational intellects, we the ones that do it, not God.

Why should a God who created a universe beyound our comprehension manipulate it for the benefit of a few animated chemicals living on a small planet in the sweet spot around a white dwarf in a avergae Galaxy in smaller than average galactic cluster?

[jdlh8894]

5. Agree . "We the people"

brought this upon ourselves!

[OHdem10]

4. The Common Good versus Rugged Individualism and Rugged

Individualism has been winning. When have you heard
the words "Common Good". Actually it has been years.
Righties have pretty much put a stake through the heart
of that phrase---just as with Liberalism.

[jdlh8894]

8. Probably going to get flamed,but here goes-

Rugged Individualism started the for "Common Good" sentence. It wasn't only help yourself,but help those around you for the common good. The Amish have lived by this principle for quite a while.Do you even know your neighbor? Would you help them with a situation?

[GliderGuider]

6. What we are seeing around us

What we are witnessing is the full and final flowering of Cartesian dualism, the malignant fruit that carries within itself the seeds of its own eventual destruction. This is affecting the whole of modern industrial civilization, not just the good old US of A. I sometimes wish that this self-destruction wasn't carrying off quite so much of the biosphere with it, but it is what it is.

Something that would be helpful to learn from this is, "I am my brother's keeper. And all of life is my brother."

Anyone who is intrigued by the idea that dualism is at the root of the converging crises humanity and the planet face today could do no better than to read Charles Eisenstein's astonishing book, The Ascent of Humanity.

[DeSwiss]

12. +1

All is.....

[fishstickle]

9. It's all part of a natural process that drives evolution and so on

no pain no evolutionary gain.

[dimbear]

10. The reason is that people don't much care what happens to

the world after they are dead.

[Iggo]

11. Never. Not once.

[wookie72]

13. I don't know what we're supposed to lean, but what we can learn

Is that we're all connected to each other, and dependent on each other.

[Angry Dragon]

14. The Devil is all around us, and he is winning

Satan is god's brother and he has taken over the world.
Filling all hearts with evil and all souls now belong to him.
The earth will turn into a flaming ball of fire and brimstone and the human race will
exist in this hell fire.

[Silent3]

15. Well, aren't you just a ray of sunshine?

:evilgrin:

[Angry Dragon]

18. Just working on my Sunday sermon

[Silent3]

16. Why would we be here to learn anything at all?

If there's some deity or other Universal Force capable of creating this whole complicated mess of a world we live in, merely to be able to do a half-assed job of delivering some cosmic lesson plan, such an entity should be more than capable of simply installing inborn knowledge of anything truly important directly into our brains, rather than parading a whole lot of misery and suffering before the eyes of a bunch of half-wit monkeys such as ourselves until maybe, just maybe, we catch on to some lame bit of Hallmark card wisdom like "we're all interconnected" or "love is the most important thing".

If you're think that "experience" is the only way to learn -- bullshit. Any entity capable of creating an entire universe is going to be capable of programming a few of our neurons in advance to know anything it wants us to know, in as fully deep and nuanced a manner as it so desires.

Since I am here, however it happened that I should be here, I think learning about this place is a damned good idea. I have no reason, however, to suspect that doing so fulfills any Great Purpose or Master Plan for my existence.

[RagAss]

17. There's no reason for anything.....man applies meaning to the meaningless.