Confessions of a Buddhist Atheist

[Odin2005]

http://www.amazon.com/Confession-Buddhist-Atheist-Stephen-Batchelor/dp/0385527063

I've been reading this and it is an excellent book for those who are in sympathy with the ideas of The Buddha but do not accept the woo-ish metaphysics of traditional Buddhist teaching. The author, a former monk was became disillusioned with the dogmatism he found among his Tibetan teachers. He argues that many traditional Buddhist schools have completely forgotten the Buddha's deep agnosticism and skepticism towards metaphysics.

[geckosfeet]

1. Thanks for the review. I added it to my cart for my next Amazon splurge.

[Speck Tater]

2. His book "Buddhism Without Beliefs" is also excellent. nt

[Odin2005]

3. Thanks, I'll have to get that!

[BanzaiBonnie]

4. Thank you for posting this

I'll try to get it and read it.

[Warpy]

5. Tibetan Buddhism is the most infected with woo-ish nonsense

of all the branches, IMO, and has devolved more into a folk religion than the others. The more contemplative it is and the less ceremonial it is, the closer it gets to the heart of the teachings.

Still, you get people from these competing sects together, and they all converge in one place: the practice of deep meditation. The rest of it is just so much jackass trivia.

[Odin2005]

6. "So much jackass trivia" I agree completely.

Tibetan Buddhism is infected with Tantric teachings, woo-BS that has nothing to do with Siddhartha Gautama's original teachings.

[Speck Tater]

7. Tibetan Buddhism is actually a blend of Buddhism and their original Bon religion

with all it's gods and angels and demons. There's an awful lot of non-Buddhist contamination in it, which is unfortunate considering the stature of the Dali Lama in the world's eyes. On the other hand, the less contaminated schools of Buddhism don't have hierarchies and leaders, so there are no prominent representatives who speak for them. The forms of Buddhism that would do the world the most good are the very forms that are the quietest and least publicized.

[postulater]

8. "The less contaminated schools"?

"The forms of Buddhism that would do the world the most good are the very forms that are the quietest and least publicized."

Which ones are they? I might be interested.

[Odin2005]

13. Some Zen/Chan schools as well as some SE Asian Theravada schools.

Zen/Chan is good at keeping things simple and free from BS metaphysics. The Theravada schools of SE Asia tend to be more free of the salvationist Buddha-worship and are more in touch with the Buddha's actual teachings through the Pali Cannon (Pali was the late Sanskrit dialect spoken by The Buddha and others in NE India at the time, it's the ancestor of Bengali).

[postulater]

14. Thanks.

[Speck Tater]

17. I second that motion.

I'm a very long-time student of the Thai forest tradition, a Theravada school that uses only the Pali Canon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C4%81li_Canon which is the earliest known text. Later texts used by the Mahayana and Vajrayana are often what we would today called "channeled" works written around five centuries after the death of the Buddha, but claiming to be "divinely inspired", although some adherents to those traditions claim historical authenticity for the texts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana_sutras

[YankeyMCC]

12. Zen Buddism is probably where

atheists would feel the most comfortable if they were interested in exploring the practices and concepts of Buddhism.

[Warpy]

15. I've known a few dogmatic Zen people, too

especially among the monks from Japan.

I've actually found the Theravadans a decent fit, especially among the ones who interpret it to western blockheads like me.

[Odin2005]

16. I agree.

The early Mahayana schools were populist movements infused with native superstitions and the elevation of enlightened individuals into saints (bodhisattvas) as part of an egalitarian political message. When Mahayana Buddhism spread into Central Asia it also seems to have picked up Middle-Eastern religious sensibilities, strengthing the role of the bodisattva even more and turning The Buddha into a demigod.

[YankeyMCC]

20. No doubt

Perhaps I was thinking to limited in scope, just the Western Zen people and schools that I've been exposed to.

In fact one couple in my sangha is a 'mixed-marriage' :) One is a member of my Zen sangha and atheist like myself, and his husband is a very devote Theravadan and it is sometimes a source of marital friction.

[safeinOhio]

9. Buddhist Atheist

that describes about half the members of my UU Church.

[Silent3]

10. We could know more about Buddhism than we currently do...

...but I met the Buddha on the road and... well, my lawyer has advised me not to discuss things further until after the trial.

[Odin2005]

11. LOL!

"If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him!"

[struggle4progress]

18. Some "traditional woo-ish Buddhist metaphysics" has had non-woo-ish interpretations,

depending (of course) on who one is willing to hear: the process of living in the present consists of a sequence of individual moments of consciousness, each of which passes away and is replaced by the following psychological moment; and until one finally actively seizes control of this process, in which one momentary psychological state is born and dies and is replaced by the next momentary psychological state, one's consciousness is governed by an iron law of karma -- the continual moment-by-moment death and reincarnation of consciousness being determined by the traces and habits of its previous moments

[Odin2005]

19. Good point.

The author himself points out a similar thing, then the Buddha was using Karma is a psychological sense.

[Vehl]

21. Didn't Buddha say "Seek (your) Enlightenment youselves"

When people were asking him to teach them how to attain Enlightenment?

That's why i do not put much emphasis on "schools" of Buddhism...after all Enlightenment is an individual thing and the path might differ from individual to individual. I really don't think there is any "correct" Buddhism...let alone an "incorrect" one.

It's all in the eye of the observer.Buddha is an example...not a carbon copy for people to follow. I doubt Buddha would be glad if he sees the amount of "formal" , "codified" structure Buddhism attained after his Passing. Buddhism ought to survive if "Buddha" is taken out of it...otherwise it would fall into the same trap a lot of religions with "founders" or "revealed texts" have fallen into...in fact one could say it had already fallen into such a trap the moment people started asking themselves "what would Buddha have done?"

[RagAss]

22. "From the beginning, not a thing exists" - Hui Neng