Oh That Kooky Pope.

[Zoroastor]

Blaming Atheists For Nazism...

http://cons-lie.com/2010/09/16/wtf-pope-blames-nazis-on-atheists/

[baldguy]

1. Just a reminder: Ol' Adolf was a good Catholic boy.

[FiveGoodMen]

2. And the Pope was a Hitler Youth

[baldguy]

3. And also a good Catholic boy, no doubt.

[pnwmom]

13. All the 911 terrorists were Muslim. So is Obama. According to your logic,

they were all "good Muslim boys," right?

Why is it that few DUers would slur all Muslims but many enjoy slurring all Catholics?

[baldguy]

18. I wasn't aware that Obama was a Muslim.

Of course, he isn't & never has been. Only mush-brained Teabaggers actually believe that he was.

And besides, Islam isn't a single, monolithic, organized religious, top-down hierarchy like the Catholic Church is. The Pope commands, the flock obeys.

But a person can ignore the Pope, deny the authority of the Church, refuse to accept the sacraments, never go to mass, and the Church will still consider that person to be a member of the Church - unless the Church excommunicates that person. Hitler was never excommunicated, was he?

And finally, I'm not slurring all Catholics. Far from it - I'm exposing the hypocrisy of the Church. Isn't Benny slurring all atheists with his accusation? Can I look forward to your defense of atheism from the Pope's unwarranted attack?

[pnwmom]

22. I was overtired. I meant to type "Osama." Mea culpa.

Hitler wasn't "commanded" by the Pope, That's nonsense.

[baldguy]

24. If Hitler upset the Church so much, then Pius XII should have excommunicated him.

Or at least thought about it.

Right?

And who gave Benedict the authority to be able to freely slur all the good atheists in the world? And why shouldn't he be open to criticism?

[pnwmom]

25. Pius XX was concerned that openly opposing Hitler put even more

Catholics, including Jewish-converts, at risk of being sent to death camps (over a million Catholics died as it is). He and the Bishops were concerned about retaliation. I think they had good reason to be concerned about that, and I don't see what ex-communication would have accomplished in practical terms.

[baldguy]

26. Who is Pius XX? And what is he Pope of?

Pius XII was the guy on the spot, so to speak. Excommunicating Hitler would've sent a message to Catholics in Germany and around the world that the Church didn't approve of his policies.

Of course there were those in the Church who did approve.

[pnwmom]

28. Excommunicating Hitler would have sent a message that may have lead to many more deaths..

Pius made the judgment that the possible benefit wasn't worth the serious risk.

And I still don't see what difference an ex-communication would have made. The U.S. wouldn't have intervened any sooner just because Pius ex-communicated Hitler.

[cleanhippie]

19. Obama is a mulim? All catholics are being slandered?

Huh?

[pnwmom]

4. He rejected Catholicism as an adult. n/t

[FiveGoodMen]

5. Debatable.

He stayed pretty cozy with the church when it suited him.

And during the Second World War Wehrmacht soldiers wore Gott mit uns on their belt buckles.

[struggle4progress]

8. Can you provide any evidence of Hitler as adult doing standard Catholic things, such as

going to confession or attending mass on days of obligation?

[pnwmom]

10. Also, he rejected Christianity/Catholicism in his writings. n/t

[trotsky]

17. No he didn't.

"Today they say that Christianity is in danger, that the Catholic faith is threatened. My reply to them is: for the time being, Christians and not international atheists are now standing at Germany’s fore. I am not merely talking about Christianity; I confess that I will never ally myself with the parties which aim to destroy Christianity. Fourteen years they have gone arm in arm with atheism. At no time was greater damage ever done to Christianity than in those years when the Christian parties ruled side by side with those who denied the very existence of God." - Hitler, Stuttgart speech, February 15, 1933

Oh he totally rejected Christianity and embraced atheism. Completely and utterly. :eyes:

[cleanhippie]

20. BZZZT! WRONG! Try again. Here are some quotes for you. Enjoy.

"The anti-Semitism of the new movement (Christian Social movement) was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge."




"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work."
















http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/09/list_of_hitler_quotes_in_honor.php

[trotsky]

16. How much evidence can you provide for any Catholic doing the same in WW2 Germany?

Just curious to see how much overall documentation there is regarding your demands.

[FiveGoodMen]

23. Not at all.

I'm not making the claim that the adult Hitler was a Catholic in good standing.

Merely that he did not abandon his religious roots to the extent that so many theists wish to believe.

[DeSwiss]

6. I don't believe "rejected Catholicism" is the proper phrasing to use here.

Public statements

In public statements, especially at the beginning of his rule, Hitler frequently spoke positively about the Christian heritage of German culture, and his belief in the "Aryan" Christ. In a proclamation to the German Nation February 1, 1933 Hitler stated, "The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and co-operation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life."<7>

Historian Joachim Fest wrote, "Hitler knew, through the constant invocation of the God the Lord (German: Herrgott) or of providence (German: Vorsehung), to make the impression of a godly way of thought."<8> He used his "ability to simulate, even to potentially critical Church leaders, an image of a leader keen to uphold and protect Christianity," according to biographer Ian Kershaw. Kershaw adds that Hitler's ability also succeeded in appeasing possible Church resistance to anti-Christian Nazi Party radicals.<9> For example, on March 23, 1933, he addressed the Reichstag: "The National Government regards the two Christian confessions (i.e. Catholicism and Protestantism) as factors essential to the soul of the German people. ... We hold the spiritual forces of Christianity to be indispensable elements in the moral uplift of most of the German people."<10>

According to Hitler's chief architect Albert Speer, Hitler remained a formal member of the Catholic Church until his death, although it was Speer's opinion that "he had no real attachment to it."<11> According to biographer John Toland, Hitler was still "a member in good standing of the Church of Rome despite detestation of its hierarchy, he carried within him its teaching that the Jew was the killer of God. The extermination, therefore, could be done without a twinge of conscience since he was merely acting as the avenging hand of God—so long as it was done impersonally, without cruelty."<12> However Hitler's own words from Mein Kampf seem to conflict with the idea that his antisemitism was religiously motivated. From childhood onward, Hitler seems to have continued to reject antisemitism or anti-Judaism based on religious arguments like the deicide claim:

MORE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_beliefs#Hitler

- And he doesn't appear to be "rejecting" this Catholic either......

[EmilyKent]

7. No he didn't.

Nor did the church reject him.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

[pnwmom]

9. He repeatedly rejected Christianity and Catholism in his writings.

But, as a politician, he had dealings with religious leaders. And they attempted, however, ineptly, to deal with him while not threatening the Catholics under his control.

[Zoroastor]

11. Sounds like a lot of modern politicos...

...using religion when it suits them.

[trotsky]

15. He did, eh?

Got proof?

[Zoroastor]

30. um... yeah...

It's sorta common knowledge and easy to find if you care to look. You can start with the above posting

[trotsky]

34. Common knowledge among Christian historical revisionists, you bet.

And I'm sure there's plenty to be found on apologist sites. Nice try though!

[cleanhippie]

21. Have you actually READ Mein Kampf? No? Then you need to.

Here are the best parts, just for you.


http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/09/list_of_hitler_quotes_in_honor.php

[baldguy]

27. Take away the authorship & cultural identifiers

Most all conservatives would agree with these statements.

[cleanhippie]

29. Sad, but true.

[trotsky]

14. So then you should be able to show documentation of his excommunication, right? n/t

[Zoroastor]

31. I can't quite figure here...

...are you defending hitler, or the pope? Either? Neither?

[baldguy]

32. When the Church sins, Catholic appologists blame everyone but the Church.

Pope Benedict - former member of the Hitler Youth - blames atheists for Hitler's rise to power. But atheists never had a large, organized political base in the Weimar Republic. The Catholic Church did, and Hitler was Catholic. Well before & during the war the Church had no criticism of his activities, and in fact was rather cozy with the Third Reich. The Church didn't find the political & spiritual courage to criticize Nazi Germany until it was long defeated.

[trotsky]

35. I am a foe of both.

Pope Ratzi thinks I'm part of the problem. So did Hitler. Fuck 'em both.

[dimbear]

12. Some of Hitler's best paintings are of the Madonna.

People are so hard on him, saying he wasn't a good painter, or he wasn't a good Catholic.

[edhopper]

33. Hitler

"Hitler... there was a painter! He could paint an entire apartment in ONE afternoon! TWO coats!"

[dimbear]

36. Here's the best known one.........

Madonna and Child.

Better as a painter than he was as a world leader. IMHO.